572 replies to this topic

[Koniks]

Mystere, on 13 October 2015 - 09:09 PM, said:

Why would I even bother to test Clan ER lasers that will have shorter range than IS standard lasers? What's the ******* point?

And the kicker? Clan double heat sinks being almost equivalent to IS single heat sinks is ******* hilarious. Clan ER lasers becoming short range weapons are doubly so.

You're completely misreading the values they're testing. They're leaving optimal range alone. The reduction is to Clan max range.

Clan double heat sinks mounted in the engine have no changes. Clan double heat sinks outside the engine are getting a nerf to capacity but a buff to dissipation.

[Tesunie]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 13 October 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

"40% range reduction to all (including small) clan lasers"
o.o *begins sharpening pitchfork*

I believe (and I could be wrong) that it's limiting it's maximum range only. Clan lasers will still have a longer effective range over IS weapons, but sounds more like they will share a similar maximum range to their weapons now instead.

Clan lasers will still carry an advantage at range, just not to the extent they once had is all. (If it's 40% reduction to all ranges... that might be a bit of a problem though.)


I, for one, am willing to give this a try and see what happens. The only change I disagree with currently is the reduction to laser damage outside 60% maximum range if you don't have a lock. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and with the changes to sensors, your mech may very well might never be able to get a lock outside 60% of your laser's maximum range... Still willing to give it a try though.

Edit: If you want my attention, quote me. (I'm not following a thread with this much activity in it!)

Edited by Tesunie, 13 October 2015 - 09:49 PM.

[Kevlar49]

Here's a thought: why not make the range/speed of locking on depend partly on how big the target is (or even better, how much of the target can be seen, but that's likely too complex)? It should not be harder to lock on to an Atlas than to see it with the naked eye, ignoring ECM for a moment.

If you keep the nerf to Assault scanner range, maybe you need to let them mount multiple Beagles or something, in order to claw back some of that range.

I do echo the oft-repeated complaint that Clan 'mechs (and pilots) are supposed to be a lot better than their IS counterparts, 10 Clan to 12 IS should still be a cake walk for the Clan 'mechs unless they're also generally lighter.

[NocturnalBeast]

Alright! It will be even easier to take out Clan mechs. I bet my good friend IRONCLAWS is not going to be around much anymore... Although I do own a couple Clan mechs.....is it too late to get a refund?

Edited by Ed Steele, 13 October 2015 - 09:59 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Possible to get reticle change when damage is delivered to friendly mech?

[Void Angel]

InnerSphereNews, on 13 October 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

Inner Sphere Single Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).
  
• Engine-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).
  
• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink heat capacity increased to 1.1 (up from 1).

Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Double Heat Sink heat capacity increased to 1.5 (up from 1.4).

Clan Double Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 0.15 (up from 0.14).
  
• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink heat capacity decreased to 1.2 (down from 1.4)

I'm not understanding the bolded numbers - is that a typo?

[Dakkss]

It's a good thing I never use Large Lasers anyway. It's annoying that even small lasers are going to take quite a hit from this too though. Couldn't this just effect Large Lasers the most, Medium Lasers a little and Small Lasers not at all? The Nova and HBK-4P are already pretty situational and niche. They don't need to get any worse.

40% to max range seems a tad extreme. 20% or even 30% would make more sense.


Sometimes I wonder if you folks at PGI actually read some community suggestions on fixing big issues with the game.

To fix MWO being in it's current high-pinpoint-3-second-kill-alpha meta, many people have expressed making the target reticle (and by extension, weapons) bounce with the mech's movement patterns in first person like it does in third person. There you go, you've just removed pinpoint damage and tiny TTK.

To fix people's complaints about Clan Tech being superior, many people have suggested running matches with 3 IS Lances and 2 Clan Stars, or 12 vs 10 if you prefer. But no, you decided to make Clan Tech super hot, and with this PTS Clan 'Extended Range' won't be very 'Extended Range' at all.

On the other hand I like the changes to the ECM and having to acquire targets for full laser damage. Those are good.

[Void Angel]

Tesunie, on 13 October 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

The only change I disagree with currently is the reduction to laser damage outside 60% maximum range if you don't have a lock. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me,

I'm thinking light 'mechs - particularly with the massive nerf to ECM in this test build. If you have to lock targets for full hitscan damage outside close combat range, surviving in the scout role gets a lot more viable. Maybe I'll be able to play my Locusts in CW again...

Nah, probably not.

PS: Everybody! Fracking test it first and give performance feedback after you've actually seen how things perform!

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Dak Darklighter, on 13 October 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

It's a good thing I never use Large Lasers anyway. It's annoying that even small lasers are going to take quite a hit from this too though. Couldn't this just effect Large Lasers the most, Medium Lasers a little and Small Lasers not at all? The Nova and HBK-4P are already pretty situational and niche. They don't need to get any worse.

Diddo, leave small lasers alone PGI!

[Coralld]

Void Angel, on 13 October 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

I'm not understanding the bolded numbers - is that a typo?

Wouldn't be the first time. I'm betting it is.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Void Angel, on 13 October 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

I'm not understanding the bolded numbers - is that a typo?

It's adjusting DHS outside of the engine. So C-DHS Dissipation looks to increase, while Capacity decreases. It's pretty small.

18 IS DHS Elited would provide:
3.588 Dissipation
68.4 Capacity

18 C-DHS Elited would provide:
3.68 Dissipation
65.52 Capacity

Crunching the listed PTS changes and keeping the other current values in place, and assuming a 250 rated engine.


Edit: at 24 DHS

IS goes to
4.554 Dissipation
79.2 Capacity

Clans go to
4.715 Dissipation
74.16 Capacity

Edited by Praetor Knight, 13 October 2015 - 10:13 PM.

[monk]

Sounds like an awesome new test build. Should be a lot of interesting results. One aspect I'm most excited about is this one:

"Lasers will not do full damage when striking a ‘Mech that is not target-locked from a range greater than 60% of the Laser’s Maximum Range."

I can't remeber if I ever posted my convergence/pinpoint/alpha fix, but this performs a similar function. Makes sense if your targetting computer isn't locked then it can't properly pinpoint damage where you want. Although I think it should always be the case. If you aren't locked on your target, all weapons fire straight forward. Once you achieve lock you get more precises targetting. The nerf to lasers on top would just be an added bonus to help reduce the overall superiority of energy based weaponry.

Edited by monk, 13 October 2015 - 10:08 PM.

[kka]

Mizeur, on 13 October 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

Please test fewer new changes at once. Testing the heat changes alone would've been sufficient. At most add the range changes, too.

The sensor and ECM changes deserved a separate test.

Yes, now there are too many changes to give detailed, pinpointed feedback.

I would also like the PTS to have specific time frame to ensure there will be players. This "there is no set end-time" is bad for player base.

[Void Angel]

Praetor Knight, on 13 October 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

It's adjusting DHS outside of the engine. So C-DHS Dissipation looks to increase, while Capacity decreases. It's pretty small.

18 IS DHS Elited would provide:
3.588 Dissipation
68.4 Capacity

18 C-DHS Elited would provide:
3.68 Dissipation
65.52 Capacity

Crunching the listed PTS changes and keeping the other current values in place, and assuming a 250 rated engine.

It's the amount of cooling that makes no sense to me. Zero point one five, when the IS value is 1.1?

[Mystere]

Mizeur, on 13 October 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

You're completely misreading the values they're testing. They're leaving optimal range alone. The reduction is to Clan max range.

Clan double heat sinks mounted in the engine have no changes. Clan double heat sinks outside the engine are getting a nerf to capacity but a buff to dissipation.

InnerSphereNews, on 13 October 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

Inner Sphere Single Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).
  
• Engine-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).

Clan Double Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 0.15 (up from 0.14).

IS 1.1 heat dissipation vs Clan 0.15. Am I misreading that?

[Scurry]

Santos Villalobos, on 13 October 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

How does a target lock affect the strength of a laser beam? Please provide some explanation - I'm tired of these oddball, shoehorned systems that lack any in-universe sense (like ghost heat).

Something like this:

In order to burn off armor, lasers must be focused to provide sufficient intensity. Without lock, the laser optic's depth-of-field is not sufficient to provide good intensity at longer ranges. However, when locked, the targeting system can make adjustments to ensure the laser is focused correctly ala a camera. At close ranges, although you have similar issues with focus, the amplitude of the beam, less attenuated by atmosphere, allows sufficient intensity to boil armor despite lack of focus.

[Setun]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 13 October 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

"40% range reduction to all (including small) clan lasers"
o.o *begins sharpening pitchfork*

First of all this is way too heavy handed in general, 40% is going overboard, but I can understand the sentiment to nerf clan meds and large pulse. What I can't understand is clan small lasers having their max range reduced to 240m. That's only 40 meters more than their optimal range, and that is a HUGE drop off.

If you want to make this change PGI then you need to give Clan smalls, and IS smalls (they need this too), a 25% increase to their optimal range. From there you can scale the clan smalls max range off of their new optimal range; that'd be an optimal (and max) range of 250m (300m) on cERSL and 206.5 (247.5) on cSPL. IS small lasers would, in turn have optimal (and max) ranges as follows: IS SL 168.75 (337.5), and IS SPL 137.5 (275).

I think they mean the x2 effective range on clan lasers drops off in damage harder now (i.e. the damage that you can still do beyond say the 600m effective range of a large pulse laser). That way people aren't sniping with LPL at 800-1k+ ranges and are still doing some kind of decent damage to enemies.

Edited by Setun, 13 October 2015 - 10:15 PM.

[Diddi Doedel]

With the change in heatsinks... maybe, just maybe the ghostheat will be entirely removed.

I mean with the lore-wise superior clan double heatsinks being LESS effective than the bad IS copies, keeping ghost heat might be real overkill.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Void Angel, on 13 October 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

It's the amount of cooling that makes no sense to me. Zero point one five, when the IS value is 1.1?

Checking smurfy's and in-game, the typo is in the OP.

My guess is that SHS Dissipation went to 0.11 from 0.1

Edited by Praetor Knight, 13 October 2015 - 10:17 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Diddi Doedel, on 13 October 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

With the change in heatsinks... maybe, just maybe the ghostheat will be entirely removed.

I mean with the lore-wise superior clan double heatsinks being LESS effective than the bad IS copies, keeping ghost heat might be real overkill.

Only things that still bug me are the extra 30 we gain and Heat Containment.

So if we can see that 30 cut down to 14 and Heat Containment either tweak Dissipation instead or be disabled, then we seem to still be able to have very high heat capacity builds available.