285 replies to this topic

[J0anna]

Hans Von Lohman, on 14 October 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

Ok, go here for the post.

http://mwomercs.com/...harts-for-pts2/

Also, the quick version.

Clan lasers are now only going to reach out to x1.4 their listed range instead of the x2.0. Inner Sphere lasers are unaffected. Basically the maximum ranges of both IS and Clan lasers are going to be around the same range, give or take a few meters, but the shorter, "maximum firepower" range is clearly favor the Clans.

Did they change their announcement? They stated a 40% max range nerf, not a max range of 40%. So shouldn't max range be:

Optimal + (1-.4)*optimal or 1.6 times their listed range?

So is it a 40% nerf or a 60% nerf?

[MischiefSC]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 October 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

Don't have to worry about any of this with ER PPCs and Gauss Rifles! Yay for Mech variety!

Trying a ERPPC + Gauss King Crab right now. We'll see how it compares to the ERLL+Gauss one. Then I'll run a few different ballistics and see how it plays out. I suspect the lasers are still a more reliable performer overall.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 14 October 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

Trying a ERPPC + Gauss King Crab right now. We'll see how it compares to the ERLL+Gauss one. Then I'll run a few different ballistics and see how it plays out. I suspect the lasers are still a more reliable performer overall.

Direstar does it better...

[dario03]

I'm not a fan. I prefer having the option of targeting a mech, making note of its damage, engaging it, and while engaging it be cycling through other enemies to pick my next target or break off and engage a more open target. This system punishes that kind of play if using lasers. Yes you should press R but its not always best to hold target and just ignore all the other enemies around you. If I see that the enemy dragon is orange CT and fresh every where else, I know thats where to hit, I don't need the doll to tell me anything more. I need to know what my next target should be after I kill him.
It also punishes if engaging at long distance because without the target hit flash I can't be sure if I'm hitting a invisible wall or not. And sadly this game does have issues with invisible walls or objects not fully rendering at range especially if running lower settings.
Its also just to many changes at once. Less max range, less range if not targeting, less targeting range if in a bigger mech, if these all go in the upcoming rebalance its just to much. Long range laser builds don't need to be nerfed that much.
Also what are the range changes? It says 40% reduction so I'm assuming 1.6x though the graph seems to show 1.4 and I've seen others say 1.4 but in the testing grounds it seems to be 1.6. It also seems to be 1.6 for the IS ERLL which I thought was not affected.

I would prefer for the change to hit flash and the laser range penalty when not targeting be left out of the rebalance pass.

[MischiefSC]

Deathlike, on 14 October 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

Direstar does it better...

Absolutely true. Direstar is pretty BA still. May see a return of it actually.

However the Dire Wolf is an issue to be resolved by quirks.

This is about general balance stuff though.

To the issues with reticle flash....

Look, I get it. Turning settings down makes a lot of the 'visual clutter' go away at range. I do. It's nice and it's a perk that effectively gives you an advantage over other players at long range. The down side is that you can end up shooting stuff at super long range you don't see, because you turned your settings down so you don't see that stuff. So you want the flash to let you know when you hit.

It was always a pretty crappy thing though. Rewarding people for turning the graphics down isn't a good choice.

Also, again. Information Warfare is about making information valuable. Hitting/not hitting because you've got the target locked is part of that.

[SaltBeef]

If I could get a refund for all of my mechs I would. This game is not Battle tech. With the constant ripping off Clan players Nerf after Nerf from week 1 these guys should have just made it 3025.

Edited by SaltBeef, 16 October 2015 - 07:13 AM.

[BearFlag]

While I agree that lasers need to be toned down, using a whimsical mechanism to do it just irritates peoples' sensibilities. I'd say I was surprised by this but I'm not. The original attenuation "curve" was also fantasy land. No attenuation out to "optimal" range then linear descent to maximum range? That's not how light works (including lasers).

The correction and the laser nerf should have been a straight linear attenuation. This would have established an underlying principle not to be messed with further. Use other adjustments to purpose. Instead we have PGI playing God with light attenuation otherwise well-grounded in physics.

And, NO, being a "fictional" universe does not relieve PGI from establishing believable, constant, in-game principles.

Chance missed.

[Gas Guzzler]

SaltBeef, on 14 October 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

If I could get a refund for all of my mechs I would. This game is not Battle tech. With the constant ripping off Clan players Nerf after Nerf from week 1 these morons should have just made it 3025.

Nerfing to be balanced with relatively unquirked IS mechs is how it should be. Why do you think you deserve OP mechs? Because you are such a special snowflake?

[sashar]

Instead of coming up with ghost damage, how about fixing the heat scale? Make real penalties for having high heat, and you could get rid of ghost damage, heat or whatever future ghosts may come in the future.

[SaltBeef]

Your a jackass! Twinkle toes! I WAS a big spender and supporter not a freeloading smart ass like yourself. If PGI had integrity they would put a disclaimer on all the Clan mechs and Clan packs explaining their Clan mechs are not Battle tech versions are will continuously be nerfed patch after patch to make IS mechs funner to play since we sell more of those. Only buy if you are a supertryhard.

Edited by SaltBeef, 14 October 2015 - 09:24 PM.

[BearFlag]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 October 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

Nerfing to be balanced with relatively unquirked IS mechs is how it should be. Why do you think you deserve OP mechs? Because you are such a special snowflake?

Because leveling IS/Clan will destroy the IS/Clan dichotomy. It kills the last tangible, lingering element of story line to this game. And the game is already woefully lacking in character and content.

(I'm an IS pilot BTW. If you destroy the Clans' identities, you kill the IS identity too.)

Edited by BearFlag, 14 October 2015 - 09:17 PM.

[FupDup]

SaltBeef, on 14 October 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

Your a jackass! Twinkle toes! I WAS a big spender and supporter not a freeloading smart ass like yourself.

I'm pretty sure he didn't get his "Ardent" badge for free.

[Slepnir]

As was posted previously, the heat scaling mechanics are broken, fix that and you literally fix everything, no boating, high alpha etc..

currently we have a spike, then dissipation mechanic, THERE SHOULD NEVER BE A SPIKE,unless your trying to kill yourself. it is supposed to be constantly dissipating at a higher rate than weapon heat generation.

Thats why the mechanic is supposed to punish you with loss of speed, fuzzy hud, engine damage, ammo explosion chance, shutdown chance that increase exponentially as you get hotter.

at 50% heat you got a good chance to critically damage or kill yourself, at 75% you are basically signing your own death warrant.

Thats why the TT heat system works, either you bring less weapons and more heat sinks(lots more), fire less weapons, or you die the first time you let off one of those high alphas.

[MischiefSC]

Clans were a joke in the whole gaming industry when they came out. The most Mary of Sues. FASA (well, the devs) apologized for how bad they were at release. They were so bad for the game, so terrible that they literally nuked the game universe (WoB) to wipe it all out and start over -

with balanced IS/Clan tech.

The stupidest thing PGI has done is trying to replicate the stupidest mistake the Battletech franchise ever made. If someone wants a PvE experience there's still copies of single player Battletech games around so they can pretend they are uber superheros with OP gear shooting gimped enemies in droves. Wanting PvE balance in a PvP game is several shades of terribad.

I like all the 'lore/battletech versions' comments. Call a rose a rose. It's 'I want totally OP gear compared to everyone else and I want them to gather in big groups like redshirts for me to kill and talk haughtily too, like somehow my winning was skill related and not just having OP stuff'.

Adding 'I paid a lot for this under the idea it's giving me an advantage' isn't really doing favors to your position.

The identity of the Clans was that they were, literally, sociopathic fascist slavers who wanted to conquer, subsume and destroy then enslave every other human civilization. They were monsters, almost comically so.

Clans/IS were balanced in Dark Ages. On purpose and very specifically. That's where the game 'evolved' to. That's the goal this game should shoot for.

[Shadow Magnet]

Slepnir, on 14 October 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

As was posted previously, the heat scaling mechanics are broken, fix that and you literally fix everything, no boating, high alpha etc..

currently we have a spike, then dissipation mechanic, THERE SHOULD NEVER BE A SPIKE,unless your trying to kill yourself. it is supposed to be constantly dissipating at a higher rate than weapon heat generation.

Thats why the mechanic is supposed to punish you with loss of speed, fuzzy hud, engine damage, ammo explosion chance, shutdown chance that increase exponentially as you get hotter.

at 50% heat you got a good chance to critically damage or kill yourself, at 75% you are basically signing your own death warrant.

Thats why the TT heat system works, either you bring less weapons and more heat sinks(lots more), fire less weapons, or you die the first time you let off one of those high alphas.

Honestly, do you really think that introducing the original TT heat mechanic will be actually *fun* in a FPS game?

Seeing how much people complain about changes like the reduced laser range if you don't lock targets, that actually shouldn't really affect many players as most already lock their targets all the time - can you imagine the outcry of the players if you would introduce a really harsh heat penality system AND remove their ability to play alphastrike warrior online?

[Johnny Z]

SaltBeef, on 14 October 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

Your a jackass! Twinkle toes! I WAS a big spender and supporter not a freeloading smart ass like yourself. If PGI had integrity they would put a disclaimer on all the Clan mechs and Clan packs explaining their Clan mechs are not Battle tech versions are will continuously be nerfed patch after patch to make IS mechs funner to play since we sell more of those. Only buy if you are a supertryhard.

Just repeating myself here. But if this game was table top board game, then all players would be piloting Clan mechs. There wouldnt be any Inner Sphere player factions. Mechwarrior Online couldnt sell famous Inner Sphere mechs like the Marauder.

Think it through a tiny bit. Clan players wiping out the Inner Sphere players was a bad idea on princple anyway. For obvious reasons. Sportsmanship to start.

There are more reasons this wasnt a good idea as well.

That Omni mechs were introduced as easy mode was a mistake, but maybe not for sales....

Thats neither here nor there because of the mess TT made the situation. Im just glad Mechwarrior Online is offering some choice and variety so all players dont have to pilot Omni mechs or quit like the board game did.

I also hope one of the coolest things that was ruined by adding the Clan factions can be salvaged somehow, and thats Lostech. This isnt on principle, or having game play that makes sense, but on the cool factor and the story possibilities having Lostech in this Battletech universe offers.

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 October 2015 - 10:33 PM.

[PholkLorr]

The current (NOT PTS) system is easy to understand.

Weapon says 270m means u do 5 dmg at 270 range and below. Dmg starts falling off towards 0 at 540 range.

Now you add a "LONG range" and a "NON LONG range?!" How the hell am i supposed to figure out what is the non Long range? Now we need a new weapon value for all lasers.

IS Mlas: 5 dmg.
Range: 163/270/540.

So people don't have to do the maths themselves for every single damn weapon.

Clan CER ML: 7 dmg
Range: 243/405/486

Sheesh

Edited by PholkLorr, 14 October 2015 - 10:53 PM.

[Elizander]

I'd still prefer longer burn lasers + backloaded laser damage + mechs can't crit structure unless you have a lock.

[Appogee]

The changes seem reasonable to me. But I doubt they will sufficiently counter-balance a complete lack of quirks on the IS side.

Let's see what the PTS reveals in terms of balance.

[Rushin Roulette]

oldradagast, on 14 October 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Variable Cone of Fire is the only answer, not more illogical, random, and impossible to justify mechanics that punish new players and PUG's and which - ironically - do nothing to actually prevent the pinpoint alpha kill, but rather just delay it a bit.

Just to predict a few replies if PGI were to post that idea in the PTS notes;

• Which idiot came up with this pathetic idea? If I aim somewhere I also want to shoot there. I speak for the entire MWO community!!!ONEELEVENZEZ!!!!
  
• How pathetic, first we get ghost heat now we get ghost aiming crosshairs!

Whatever PGI changes there will always be someone complaining, no matter what the idea is, no matter how many like it... there will always be someone who does not like it. Putting the ideas up in the PTS server is a MUCH better idea than just plonking it on the live server like the Ghost heat fun we are experiencing on the live servers.

Ive seen players on this thread mouthing off that they do not need to download the PTS server and know everything is going to be crap anyways...

This message is to them;

"If you dont want to test it, then dott complain if players who do test it find it manageable... download the test server client yourself, get some actual practical experience instead of that pathetic no knowledge theoretical crap and leave some real feedback"