173 replies to this topic

[Omi_]

Lily from animove, on 04 November 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

It's not hard for us because we know nearly anything and just have to adopt to the little delta they add, but overall if you see the entire system and take someone without any idea about it, it's too complicated.

Actually, I think the changes being pushed through PTS will lead to a more intuitive MWO. A lot of the infotech stuff being discussed (including laser changes) shouldn't be too hard to explain to a new player, and will influence the feel of the game in a way that everyone can pick up on. Compare that to something like ghost heat and it's a marked improvement.

[AdamBaines]

I liked this little hidden nugget.

InnerSphereNews, on 03 November 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

• Pinpoint (Elite): Unchanged, but this Skill is planned for replacement.

[1453 R]

Eyeballing it for now, since I can't access the PTS yet...:

-The pilot skill nerfs look to be pretty harsh...but frankly I'm willing to see where that goes. The difference between a fresh-bought 'Mech and a mastered chassis is so stupidly high on Live as to be...well, stupid. It's a huge bar to entry for new players, and given the 'neurohelmet hacks' justification for the system the previous values were insane. I feel like the new values might be pretty close to where they ought to be - desireable and worth obtaining, but not so utterly essential that rookie pilots have to forego experimenting with multiple singleton chassis in order to aggressively pursue that single mastered moneymaker.

-Missiles: interesting, but seems potentially off a bit. The velocity changes for SRMs are appreciated but don't really address the core issue of the weapon, i.e. its horrendous spread. So-called 'optimum' range for SRMs isn't really any such thing, given that by the time the warheads reach 270 meters half of them will be wildly off-target. Constrict the spread some for the base launchers, and/or allow Artemis to constrict it a lot, and you might just bring them back. As for the Lurms, I'm excited to see changes that look to be trying to push people into making singular, targeted shots with the weapon rather than vomiting eleven hundred missiles from behind a cliff, but you're cutting the DPS of an already low DPS weapon by a good bit with these cooldown adjustments. The tightened spread looks helpful, but not helpful enough. I'd consider bumping missile damage up a twitch, seeing how high-damage, high-cooldown launchers work. That's long been an ideal for missile users, and it would also go a goodly way towards making AMS relevant again.

-Gauss change looks workable. Painful, but workable. Frankly the thing was a li'l too dominant even with the charge cycle; this really hurts things like triple-Goose Whales and heavily encourages people to pair Gauss with other stuff. Which, admittedly, they already do, but now Gausslasers builds are going to be more reliant on their lasers, and thusly run hotter for the same damage output. If it looks good, you may even be able to go to 6s cooldown and eliminate the charge delay. I would be sad since I like how the current Gauss charge delay mechanic feels, but I've given up trying to convince people it's not the Devil

The rest of it I'd have to play to get a real idea of how it works, and if I can manage to not be at work any time in the next seventy-two hours I'll see if I can do that, but I figured I'd throw this out there. Mostly to try vainly and counteract the millions of players who're no doubt shrieking about how the pilot efficiencies nerfs are going to Ruin MWO Forever™. To that, all I can say is:

You people wanted slower, less maneuverable fatbros that had a harder time tracking twiggies? Here you go - wish granted. Now shaddap and run with it.

[Bluttrunken]

With your changes to basic skills some mechs will become incredibly sluggish. It might be the intention of the change, this or making maneuverability more dependant on quirks BUT it devalues alot of my heavies and assaults if we take possible quirks out of the equation. ~Kinda not ok with that.

[Kraftwerkedup]

The pilot skill tree nerfs are...weird...

I guess thats one way to close the gap between long time players and new players, but dayum, thems is harsh. The problem seems to be that if theyre too high, grinding new mechs can be a real pain, or being a new player can as well. However if theyre too low...whats the point of having them? Why not make them do something more interesting?

It also makes mastering all that more painful. Its already really really annoying with the whole 3 variants of a chassis deal...now youre barely rewarded for that.

The rest...also seems odd, I just dont understand the direction of the Rebalance, but if it works, it works. Its still hard to form an opinion because were not even close yet.

And yeah my Wubshee is just getting the nerf bat left right and center.

It recently lost quirks, now its losing more and potentially not gaining them back. Its mobility has been cut by ~30%, its range cut by about the same, its heat efficiency is down by 10%, its kind of out of hand.

It was a super strong mech, dont get me wrong, but...who the hell wants a Highlander or a Battlemaster now? Those are going to be even worse? I dont think assaults were the top of the OP uberhive, and they seem to be getting the shaft the most.

More dying to Arctic Cheetahs in my future?

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 04 November 2015 - 10:11 AM.

[Max Von Lakes]

Quote

Inner Sphere Single Heat Sinks
• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.2 (up from 1.1 for previous PTS value).
• Engine-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.2 (up from 1.1 for previous PTS value).

Clan Double Heat Sinks
• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink heat capacity decreased to 1.1 (down from 1.2 for previous PTS value)

huh? this makes sense....how?

[Shadey99]

Twilight Fenrir, on 03 November 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

They've acknowledged this, and it's on the agenda... there's just other stuff they gotta do right now, namely CW Phase 3 at the moment. They intend to completely redo the skill tree... but it's gonna be a HUUUGE thing. Aside from raw programming, there's logistics too... What happens to all the millions of XP we've sunk into our mechs if they reset the system? If we still need to buy 3 of each chassis to complete certain levels, what happens to those of us who have sold them to only keep one or two variants?

They still have stats that tell you how much xp went into a mech originally, I'd think returning that xp to you is a solid start. Heck they even have 'total xp' you've earned over your entire play time. The skill system hasn't changed since I started playing, but things like quirks were added which effect things more.

Personally I dislike the lessening of skills. WTF is the point of all this xp I've earned over the years if it gives such slight bonuses it's just about pointless? 2.5% for values under 50 can be negligible for instance. If speed tweak was 2.5% of your max speed only lights, fast mediums, and fast heavies would gain even 2 kph. In fact a mech with an engine rated for 150 kph would gain a whole 3.75 kph if that was the case.

Now... Things like heat don't even get above 5 (~30 DHS which is almost impossible to get), so 2.5% of 5 is so small (0.125) as to be nothing. 20 DHS is more common and is a dissipation of 3.4 heat/s, so 2.5% of 3.4 is 0.085 so the heat dissipation is 3.485. Even elite bonus only makes it only 3.57. Or effectively 1 bonus HS in effect. Btw the 'example mech' I created to get my numbers had 3 MPLs and generated 4.68 heat/s. In TT 3 MPLs with 20 DHS would be 'free' because they wouldn't impact your heat scale.In MWO you'd overheat in 50 seconds.

PGI seriously needs to redo 'heat' and 'skills' before they break the game trying for 'balance'. Which frankly is never going to happen since the base material was never intended to be balanced this way. Balance in TT was by number of mechs you could effectively field and it's the one way MWO cannot be balanced. This inherent issue between differing game mechanics is the heart of every issue we have.

[Livewyr]

Max Von Lakes, on 04 November 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

huh? this makes sense....how?

Clan doubles keep the 1.5 Dissipation value, just lower heat cap. (Clans can mount a lore more weapons than IS, typically, so it makes sense to drop their heatspike capability.) IS SHS right now are outmoded in all situations, so they are trying to make them useful in some situations... especially since IS DHS take up 3 slots, compared to clan 2-slot.

[Tanus Dimitrov]

My initial response to these suggested changes:

-Leave the Piloting Skills alone. Just don't change them, too many changes at one time really screws up a game.
-Guass already has a 1.5 delay, why add a longer cooldown? If you want to reduce the laser vomit, make the other weapons worth while.
-If PGI really wants to prevent laser alpha issues, simply reduce the number of lasers until you get ghost heat (LPL ghost heat kicks in at 2 instead of 3 firing).
-Clan mechs are suppose to be technical better weapons of war. The weapon range and heat nerfs is too much. Reducing the number of Clan mechs per 12 person group would be a fair better option.

I've been playing since Beta and I honestly haven't had as much fun this year as I had in the early days. I have purchased the Warhammer and Maduarer packages however those may well be the I spend on MWO for a while. I don't like having pilot skills modified after spending the time getting the skills up on most of my mechs, the questionable match maker, and finally the recent onslaught of nerfs.

[Varvar86]

Can't log in.
"This account is not authorised"
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[Livewyr]

Same for all of us atm.

It's up.

Edited by Livewyr, 04 November 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[SourKraut]

I know its still early in the re balance testing process and I am trying to keep an open mind and be objective about the changes PGI is proposing in all these PTS sessions...but honestly there has got to be a better way to improve things without making almost every existing thing in the game worse somehow. I know that is a bit harsh but when you look at the proposals in the first 3 rounds we have been asked to test almost everything will function less effectively in some way than it currently does right now. Yes there are certain things that should be "weakened" for the sake of balance, I realize this, but there are many other things that should be improved rather than lowered in some creative way. I know this is just general feedback that really doesn't address the specifics of this round of PTS but it is honestly how I feel going into these sessions...instead of trying out what PGI is making better it feels more like I am going in to see what has been made worse and if those worsened things are tolerable or not.

[Tarl Cabot]

Max Von Lakes, on 04 November 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

[color=#CCCCCC]
Quote[/color]
[color=#959595]

Inner Sphere Single Heat Sinks
• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.2 (up from 1.1 for previous PTS value).
• Engine-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.2 (up from 1.1 for previous PTS value).

Clan Double Heat Sinks
• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink heat capacity decreased to 1.1 (down from 1.2 for previous PTS value)[/color]

huh? this makes sense....how?

For the SHS, I am going to say to get it ready for Steam/lots of new players using stock IS mechs after purchasing/obtaining them, before upgrading to DHS.

As for the Clan DHS, instead of putting in a hard cap on the Heatscale, they are reducing the value itself. I would have op to have PGI set it at 30+ 1xHS, instead of using the base heatsink values.

Essentially, PGI has a formula setup, and each heat sink, IS SHS, IS DHS and Clan DHS (will there be Clan SHS on some of the garrison mechs? too long to remember), PGI has applied more than one value to it, allowing them to adjust it one way while not affecting other aspects of it.

[Mcgral18]

Kamies, on 04 November 2015 - 12:48 AM, said:

[/i][/i][/i]

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

Touching the heat value instead of cooldown value does not make AC2 any more viable weapon than it is now! Think about it.

Both Heat and Cooldown are issues on the AC2.


Buff both of those attributes.

[Tarl Cabot]

Cole Williams, on 04 November 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

My initial response to these suggested changes:

[color=#959595]-Clan mechs are suppose to be technical better weapons of war. The weapon range and heat nerfs is too much. Reducing the number of Clan mechs per 12 person group would be a fair better option.[/color]

With the current setup of symmetric warfare, everything is being brought in, not necessarily to be equal but comparative. No engagements of 5-7 vs 12, no battle computer to give a ready tone to notify you your weapons are as converged as they can get on the target mech (notice I did not say section of mech), and when you pull that trigger it is not likely that all of the weapons being fired will hit.

As a reminder, the Clan tech on the boardgame was created that way(extreme OP) in order to push pass a mix of 3025/3050 IS mech technology, after the failure of the initial rounds of playtesting where the Clans could not gain any ground using STAR LEAGUE era mechs and technology while incorporating their type of warfare.

[Mcgral18]

InnerSphereNews, on 03 November 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

All AC/2s


• All IS and Clan AC/2s: Base heat reduced to 0.8 (down from 1.0)

• All IS And Clan AC/2s: Now have the ability to crit Internals at the same rate as Machine Guns, with a 1.0 DMG multiplier. This means that when an AC/2 does crit it will do 2 additional points of DMG.

You'll want to correct that second part, as it's false:

<WeaponStats maxDepth="10.0" gravity="0,0,-9.8" volleydelay="0" speed="2000" lifetime="10.0" duration="0.0" tons="6" maxRange="1440" longRange="720" minRange="0" ammoPerShot="1" ammoType="AC2Ammo" cooldown="0.72" heat="0.8" impulse="0.0375" heatdamage="0" damage="2" numFiring="1" projectileclass="bullet" type="Ballistic" slots="1" Health="15" critChanceIncrease="0.08,0.05,0.03" critDamMult="1.0"/>

It deals the same Crit Damage it always has, 2.0.
It deals the same Bonus Damage (15%) as it always has, 0.3


Gauss shall remain the best Crit Weapon.

Now if only you'd change that 11+M CoF on the SRM6s

[Splatshot]

So a single Heat Sink is better than a Double Heat Sink, that is totally FUBAR.

Might as well call them all just Heat Sinks, and give them random numbers.


Inner Sphere Single Heat Sinks
• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.2 (up from 1.1 for previous PTS value).
• Engine-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.2 (up from 1.1 for previous PTS value).

Clan Double Heat Sinks
• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink heat capacity decreased to 1.1 (down from 1.2 for previous PTS value)

[Tarl Cabot]

that is capacity for the Clan DHS..that is the amount added to 30 to give that mech +HS their heat cap

[Splatshot]

Tarl Cabot, on 04 November 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

that is capacity for the Clan DHS..that is the amount added to 30 to give that mech +HS their heat cap

Ok,

Still having a Double do less then a Single, makes no sense as why would the double actually exist then.

[Hydrocarbon]

I agree with the pilot skill changes, there's a HUGE difference between a new mech & mastered mech. I also agree with the IS laser range buffs, partially with the IS MPL heat scale, but disagree with clan laser range buffs.

I was REALLY hoping for either a buff to IS SRM range, possibly getting bigger IS Streak launchers. too.

1453 R, on 04 November 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Gauss change looks workable. Painful, but workable.

Honestly with this nerf they should disable the charge mechanism. I was discussing it with ppl last night and it doesn't make sense for Gauss to explode when it's NOT charging. The idea is it holds giant capacitors, and giant caps are basically inert unless they're charged.

If they keep in weapon explosion, they need to remove the charge time since it's simulating an always-charged bank of caps. If they leave in charge time, then a weapon explosion should ONLY happen when it's crit'd WHILE charging/charged.

Kraftwerkedup, on 04 November 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

And yeah my Wubshee is just getting the nerf bat left right and center.

Banshee's are horribly OP, and the buff to laser range will make it even worse. They require you to play a bit more strategically like a Dire, but when you do they are total ****-bots. Not balanced in the slightest.

Max Von Lakes, on 04 November 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

huh? this makes sense....how?

Because clan laser boats were STILL dangerous in the last PTS. They reset clan lasers to their full glory, removed negative quirks, and still had big range & big alphas. Getting 500+ in a 5SS required work while getting 500+ in an Ebon was a walk in the park.