166 replies to this topic

[ColourfulConfetti]

Tourmaline remained popular because it's legitimately one of the best designed maps in the game, if not the best. Of course it helps that there are virtually no physical and visual obstructions. If they can only fix that invisible geometry bug it'd be perfect. Canyon network is also blessed by actual competent design.

**** frozen city though, hate having to use perma-thermal. Frozen city night is ok though.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 05 November 2015 - 08:23 AM.

[Roadbuster]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, the magical distance is 500m.
Terrain further away changes shape and some things become invisible. So you can see a mech standing at 800m, but no matter how many ER- PPC shots you fire, none hit, because there is a wall between you which only becomes visible under 500m.

There are 2 very easy to spot examples for this. One is on Mining Collective when looking down line E, where you can see through the building in the middle of the line, but don shoot through. Get closer and suddenly there is a massive wall instead of thin air.
The other is on Alpine, standing in the valley between F4 and F5 and looking towards E5. Start moving towards E5 and watch the ridge. Suddely a part of the ridge vanishes.


My point is, talking about long range battles is moot as long as it only works if there are no "invisible" obstacles between you and the target.
We could just get rid of everything and just play on a flat surface with a few walls as cover.
Also, forget about changing daytime, heat view and night view.
It would work, but imho, it would be boring as hell.

I agree that they should lower the ammount of pebbles which stop your mech like a 10ft brick wall, but other than that, I like maps like Forest and Bog because you can really use the environment to you advantage.

However. None of this is an explanation why Terra Therma is not selected more often. I mean, it's always clear weather, few obstacles, long ranges...what's not to like?

Edited by Roadbuster, 05 November 2015 - 08:05 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 November 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

That's why you pioneers, explorers and trendsetters have always been in the extreme minority....

They challenge themselves because they subconsciously know that there's a small chance that they could get a big reward. It's also human nature (predominantly displayed on males). That's one theory about how people can settle on all parts of the world.

Bishop Steiner, on 05 November 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Because human nature, is to not challenge oneself more than necessary, and to ALWAYS take the path of least resistance.
...

The last part is the logical thing to do - also demonstrated by electrons flowing through a circuit. The first part depends on your necessity.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 05 November 2015 - 08:01 AM.

[MazeRunner]

My only grump about Frozen City is the wierd fps drop I get on both versions, regardless of what visual mode I use, or graphics settings I've tried. It's not major, but its enough to give the game a sluggish feel.

But yea, give me maps with fog and cover and so on. Seismic Sensors, Radar Derp and a UAV...prevents me from getting to complacent about relying too heavily on the Mk1-Eyeball.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hit the Deck, on 05 November 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

They challenge themselves because they subconsciously know that there's a small chance that they could get a big reward. It's also human nature (predominantly displayed on males). That's one theory about how people can settle on all parts of the world.


The last part is the logical thing to do - also demonstrated by electrons flowing through a circuit. The first part depends on your necessity.

and yet those who are considered giants, did not contain themselves to the path of least resistance. Not that they didn't take advantage of it when needed, just that it was not how they walked their lives. Look up the life of folks like Tesla, Einstein, etc. Neither of whom was particularly interested in rewards, btw.

[1Grimbane]

My experience is the same in regards to the voting system.... great maps that have little to do with visual obstruction and low heat...I WISH PGI COULD SEE THAT THE MAJORITY WANTS THESE TYPES OF MAPS AND THE TERRA THERMA VIRIDIAN BOG CROWD ARE THE MINORITY................. maybe the majority choices will actually outweigh the minority in terms of future map making.... i hope it does

Edited by 1Grimbane, 05 November 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[PurpleNinja]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 November 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Because human nature, is to not challenge oneself more than necessary, and to ALWAYS take the path of least resistance.

That's why you pioneers, explorers and trendsetters have always been in the extreme minority, far less than the "1%" throughout history. Difference now is, between the internet and our participation award society, every thinks they are a special snowflake, and a precious princess, despite the fact that most don't even have enough courage to risk their electrons on a video game, let alone do anything out of the safe and familiar in real life.

Funnily (to me) here on the intrawebz, we can all live out our fantasies in total safety...and yet instead, most people still cower, hide and look for the easiest route.

It's probably why as much as people love to complain (especially anonymously on the web) about everything in society, as long as they have their mcdonalds and the voice to watch...no one actually does anything.

But admittedly, it's just a theory. And a slightly cynical one at that.

That was a good read.

IMHO, since PGI threw Lore and TT rules out the window, they should remove sensors altogether making us pay attention to visual information rather than red squares.

[Sethliopod]

I wonder if this is where primarily chit-based and table-top mini players collide with FPS/MMO video game players.

I simply have no problem with the idea that my Mech might at times have extremely limited visibility or get snagged on something I cannot see. Have you noticed the actual field of view from a cockpit? It sucks.

I actually like some maps having areas of terrible visibility, and would prefer areas that also disrupt all "doritos," too. Imagine being able to lock on to a target, but have to determine for yourself if it's friend or foe?! <gasp!> Sacrebleu!!!!

Edited by Sethliopod, 05 November 2015 - 08:19 AM.

[Mawai]

As for game mode selection ... you should note what the options were. I am guessing that a number of those assault games were choices between conquest and assault. Assault is probably the go to option for people who want skirmish when it is not available. though you can't tell for sure without the rest of the choices.

[Hit the Deck]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 November 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

Look up the life of folks like Tesla, Einstein, etc. Neither of whom was particularly interested in rewards, btw.

That would not be correct. Their rewards are their own intellectual achievements which is a great boon for the humankind. Different strokes for different folks. Risk takers (pioneers etc.) or intellectuals (Tesla and friends) are just types of people who indeed constitute a small slice of the human population. Leaders are also the minority but when you think about it, everything makes sense because obviously not everyone can or should become a leader - one leader leads and all others follow. You just need to become yourself and do your job in the society!

Edited by Hit the Deck, 05 November 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Clearly the solution is more obstructions to all maps. To level the playing field. It would certainly making scouting more important.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 November 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Because human nature, is to not challenge oneself more than necessary, and to ALWAYS take the path of least resistance.

That's why you pioneers, explorers and trendsetters have always been in the extreme minority, far less than the "1%" throughout history. Difference now is, between the internet and our participation award society, every thinks they are a special snowflake, and a precious princess, despite the fact that most don't even have enough courage to risk their electrons on a video game, let alone do anything out of the safe and familiar in real life.

Funnily (to me) here on the intrawebz, we can all live out our fantasies in total safety...and yet instead, most people still cower, hide and look for the easiest route.

It's probably why as much as people love to complain (especially anonymously on the web) about everything in society, as long as they have their mcdonalds and the voice to watch...no one actually does anything.

But admittedly, it's just a theory. And a slightly cynical one at that.

how dare you make fun of my special snowflake status! now i must retreat to my safe space and eat cookies hold my blanky while sucking my thumb and listen to childrens rhymes on tape.

[Almond Brown]

Darian DelFord, on 04 November 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Heaven forbid that the artist go our of their way to limit visibility

Heaven forbid that a mech traveling 150 KPH is brought to a dead stop for hitting a pebble he can not see

Heaven forbid that a mech comes to a complete stop when they hit an invisible object out in the open of viridian Bog.

Heaven forbid that the devs have no idea how to play their own game or design maps for it

Heaven forbid that most of the newer maps you have to play in thermal mode to see a damn thing.

Why do you still play MWO? Heaven forbid it is apparently so f'ucked up...

[BigJim]

On the whole nonsense argument about "challenge" or lack thereof - In team vs team game, the challenge ought to be your opposition, not your environment (unless it's some kind of survival type affair, but those are their own unique kind of game).

Sure, the map provides local advantages and disadvantages to those who plan to, or are opportunistic enough to grab them when they recognise them - but on the whole, it's the opposite team who should be out to get you; Not the walls, or the trees, or the air, like some spooky haunted house where the very ground upon which you walk is alive and trying to ensnare you...

[Almond Brown]

1Grimbane, on 05 November 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

My experience is the same in regards to the voting system.... great maps that have little to do with visual obstruction and low heat...I WISH PGI COULD SEE THAT THE MAJORITY WANTS THESE TYPES OF MAPS AND THE TERRA THERMA VIRIDIAN BOG CROWD ARE THE MINORITY................. maybe the majority choices will actually outweigh the minority in terms of future map making.... i hope it does

PGI see just great. Fact is it is just Thursday and the Vote was just Patched in on Tuesday FFS. Give it some f'ing time at least...

[Apnu]

All of this would be lessened if two things changed.

1) Players need to hit the freaking 'R' when they're playing the game. Knowing where the enemy is is crucial, players should help by hitting the 'R' key more.

2) ECM can't block basic target locking. Its not in the TT, it shouldn't be in this game. It would be fine if ECM disrupted Artemis, TAG, and NARC. It would be fine if ECM caused target lock to fade faster. It would be fine if it worsened the missile spread. ECM is not fine being, basically, a sensor invisibility cloak. Not at 180m like now or the proposed 90m in PTS. ECM should never make mechs invisible.

In the lore, mechs can find each other by heat signatures, magnetic anomaly detection, and seismic vibrations as well as radar. Its ridiculous that ECM would block all that. Yes we can toggle thermal vision and see things we don't normally see, but that's not what I'm talking about here, the mechs should have heat sensors to help find and ID mechs.

Why is the meta all direct fire lasers and ballistics? Because those weapons aren't affected by ECM. All you need is line of sight and to pull the trigger at the right time. But because ECM denies so much info war, players have been conditioned to play w/out any info war at all, which also makes them play more as individuals and less like members of a team.

Make it easier for mechs to, at least, know where the enemy is and we'll see better team play. It should be easy to allow scouts to remove the Fog of War as they go along and find enemy mechs. If a mech is successfully scouted and ID'd, it should be easy to find, at least as blimps like seismic on the map, due to each mech's sophisticated sensor package that they all carry according to lore.

[Alistair Winter]

Canyon Network, Tourmaline Desert and Frozen City are also fairly well balanced and often see some interesting manoeuvres.

Visibility and obstructions are a major factor. Temperatures as well. But there are many maps that just suffer from fundamentally flawed designs. Even if Viridian Bog had zero obstructions and zero fog, I still wouldn't want to play it. The layout of the map is so boring.

[pwnface]

Visual obstructions on 100% of a map suck. I get that PGI wants to add some flavor and variety to our maps but it really sucks playing 100% on a match in thermal vision. Maybe they can make certain areas of a map have visual obstructions rather than the whole thing. For example the water area on the side of viridian bog could be filled with fog and have terrible visibility, but the ridiculous amount of trees and leaves everywhere ruins visibility. Perhaps if we had destructible cover viridian bog would be a more popular map as well, putting 80+ damage alphas into a tree should probably destroy it and clear up visibility in that area.

[Revis Volek]

Khobai, on 04 November 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

Battletech has forest hexes pretty much everywhere. Visual obstructions were a huge part of tabletop, and it was done deliberately to encourage midrange fighting and brawling. IMO they need to add MORE visual obstructions and less physical obstructions (i.e. fix invisible walls, make it so trees get destroyed when shot, and give assaults better hill climbing ability)

Visual obstructions are good IMO because they make sensors matter more (sensors just dont matter enough at the moment). Whats irritating is the indestructible trees. You should be able to drill through trees to get to your target lol.



Without turrets, Assault is basically Skirmish. Thats why people vote for it. Because they just want skirmish.

Theya re already doing this....

Destructable Trees exisit in River City and the new Caustic....so you are jsut asking for stuff they are doing already.


Unless i misunderstood you....i do that often.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mellifluer, on 05 November 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

how dare you make fun of my special snowflake status! now i must retreat to my safe space and eat cookies hold my blanky while sucking my thumb and listen to childrens rhymes on tape.

I can hook you up with some Metallica nursery rhymes....