144 replies to this topic

[-Vompo-]

Assaults useless
Being left behind... Communicate with your team. Tell them you are slow if you think you will be left behind. Most assault mechs are fast enough to keep up anyway. You should have no problem if you can do around 65kph.
Sometimes you get unlucky and get killed in the rear all alone. Some of those times your team is doing the right thing by leaving you there. There is little point of losing a match for some noble principle like no man is left behind. I know it can be annoying.

As for dying in 2 seconds...
-Don't stay still and don't just stare at the enemy. Spread damage by twisting and turning.
-Plan ahead of time how you can minimize the amount of incoming fire. Find the best possible trades.
-Know your mech. Low mounted weapons: Avoid going over hills. Intead go around where your weapon placement doesn't matter. With high weapon mounts do the opposite.

Those basic very basic rules of playing assault mech should allow you to live minutes in combat.

[BigBenn]

I advise not to over generalize. When you see a Victor, look for a Timberwolf, Thunderbolt, Storm Crow, or other such mech that is more of a threat. When you see a Dire Wolf or King Crab, they become priority. Heck, I'd almost fire at the maggot mech (Arctic Cheeter) over the Victor.

It is all in the mech rather then the class.

[Clownwarlord]

Disagree greatly.

[PyckenZot]

Yes you will be left behind from time to time, but any good assault build will net you a positive PSR rating even on many loss drops.

IF

you adhere to the meta.

Frontload your armor and build a massive alpha in there (eg. UAC/50; 6x LL, 4x LPL)

[DeRazer]

A lot of this would be mitigated if Lances were able to select their drop spots from an area. I can't count the number of times I've dropped in the slowest mech, in the furthest drop point.

[adamts01]

GreyNovember, on 06 November 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Your first paragraph wants them to be slow as a disadvantage, but then goes on to say only an assault should beat an assault, disregarding that advantage. You've basically made it so that lights can't compete with assaults at all.

Cheetahs, Firestarters, and Spiders are the only ones with "Godlike" boxes. That hardly qualifies as many.

All of these decent builds need to be pinpoint, front loaded. Otherwise we have fattie pilots coming in, complaining their 98 Alpha didn't core a light; neglecting to mention they were using lasers and SRMs. And you need to take your lag into account when aiming. This is easier said than done.

I agree with your assault sentiment. Head on, there shouldn't be a contest between a hundred tonner and anything below with the same range profile.

But that should come with the agility of a Dire as baseline. Assaults are not nimble, save for a few oddball designs. Just like how all lights are not meant to be weak, weaponless scouts meant to stare at the enemy team for "recon".

If your ping is too bad to leg lights then an assault without streaks sadly might not be the mech for you. I completely sympathize, Internet in the Philippines sucks. Sometimes my signal goes to LA before going to Singapore. When I have a bad ping night I play streaks, LRMs or a mech built to kill fast guys that's fast and sneeky enough to let me choose my targets carefully. When it's all said and done though, you're specific loadout that doesn't with your ping isn't the game's fault.

As for lights vs assaults, yeah, equal skill levels with equal range loadouts, the assault should beat everything else. Just for instance... If they doubled their armor, gave a little better cooling but made them max out at 50 kph and maneuver like a dire, I think that would be cool. As for as the speed thing, the need to be slow as hell if they are to be more tanky. They'd be an unstoppable wall of pain that would have to be maneuvered and placed carefully. The only thing that could stop them would be smaller mechs in numbers or other assaults. It would make them unique. Plus it would give lights a role in scouting out the other assaults and letting friendlies know where to go. As it is, there's no reason to take anything but a heavy.

[Lugh]

The Atlas Overlord, on 05 November 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

Pretty much this.

The whole "rock vs paper vs siccors (however that's spelled)" mentality is just guys wanting an insta-win button over whatever they're supposed to insta kill.

Rather than design actual classes based on playstyle they just cater to the COD twitch shooter fans.

Ideally... if all you want to do is kill things... PLAY AN ASSAULT B/C THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.

In reality... Play a light b/c every other mech can be killed easily by running behind it making ever "advantage" they gain for being giant and slow completely moot.

So light pilots die "easy" (lol right...that's why it's always the entire light lance left at the end of 90% of games) b/c they're small and fast....

And assaults die easy b/c....they're not small and fast.

Riiiggghhhttt.

The entire light lance being alive at the end of the match could be a couple different things.
1) They really are that good at shooting and scooting.
2) They are really terrible at shooting and scooting and are playing a tickling sniper build badly
3) YOUR light lance failed to identify and eliminate them because no one ever said something like 'light sniper c3' in chat or in Voice comms.
4) If you are getting killed by light pilots in an assault you might be doing it wrong(ie too specialized keep three+ ML on hand to leg shoot the little buggers and do it well, they will flee)
5) Why isn't your team escorting your firepower to the front line? Are they really that dumb(this is a rhetorical question because clearly they are)? Even one medium or heavy escorting an assault will decrease the chances of that assault being destroyed by lights by a large margin.

[Burktross]

The Atlas Overlord, on 05 November 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

Teams are stupid.

You can't fix stupid.

Come play the PTS:
Derping Nascar: Gone
Derping Deathblob insta kill: Gone
Teamwork: Actually Exists
Fun: 12v12 can't even come close.

I concur. Free mechs too!
Definitely worth the other... what... 8 gigs?

The only problem is that alls fun till you put clan mechs in the equation.
we had offensive quirks for a reason

[DrxAbstract]

When you consider the combined vital section armor difference between a 75 ton and a 100 ton is a single alpha's worth of damage it's easy to see Assaults are hardly worth the lack of mobility.

[Tool Box]

Khobai, on 05 November 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

PTR changes make assaults even worse

they lose most of their maneuverability, lose a lot of dissipation and heatcap, and gain nothing to really make up for it

What are you talking about. I played 5 Banshee, 10 Dire, and a couple atlas games and in all of them I did far better than my teammates because people actually have oh **** moments when they came up against my assault. Usually getting no less than 1 of the kills and ~500 damage up to all of the kills and 900 damage.

Alistair Winter, on 05 November 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

You know, in lore, as I understand it, only the most talented Mechwarriors were given the honour of piloting assault mechs. Those were the most devastating of all battlemechs and omnimechs, so you really had to earn your right to pilot one. They weren't handed out to recruits as training wheels. So if assault mechs actually require some skills to use properly in MWO, then maybe - and I hate to say this - it's working as intended?

Quoting Sarna

Sometimes I have to agree with this. When I see bad pilots in assaults I cringe so hard, but then I am also of the competitive mindset so I'm not having fun if you suck but if you're having fun more power to you I guess.

Burktross, on 06 November 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

I concur. Free mechs too!
Definitely worth the other... what... 8 gigs?

The only problem is that alls fun till you put clan mechs in the equation.
we had offensive quirks for a reason

I had no problems dealing with the clan mechs, it was usually a matter of teamwork but heck my dragon 1n despite having no quirks beat the crap out of a brawling maddog 1 on 1. This is just my experience though.

Edited by Tool Box, 06 November 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[mogs01gt]

kongman, on 05 November 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

i love assaults , but its just painful to play them , you cant play them like they are supposed to be played , all you do is get left behind , then when you do get to battle you die in 2 sec .

You are simply describing bad players being bad a not supporting their Assaults. Assaults are the most important mechs in each match. 75% of wins comes down to who has the better assaults, better assault pilots and which team supports their assaults.

[zeves]

as an assault pilot id say they have a higher potenical to carry the match but also have a risk of getting disabled compared to heavies who have generally have very consistent performances,
Being seasoned at driving BFG rigs id say getting caught alone with a light happens about the samme ammount as getting killed by headshots. not super often, and when it does the light tends to disengage eventually. not played the test version but i asume not much will change, if you get left behind youl be in trouble and not because of your turn rate.

[Maelstrum]

Don't peek into the enemy firing line and you should be fine with an assault.
I also adhere to the skill mentality. They punch hard and take a beating but they're not auto-kill machines. You need to learn evasion manoeuvres and to cover your back. Get a seismic sensor to detect back stabbers and flankers, stay and assist your team, absorb damage when needed to get the heat off your teamates but don't go in Leeroy style and learn to shield yourself with your arms and you can dish out a freakish amount of damage.

With a Direwolf you're especially vulnerable to lights but there are ways to keep them in front. If you're against two lights that know how to handle themselves, you're out in any mechs if you've got yourself isolated.

With a King Crab I eat lights for breakfast. They're so soft for my dual gausses to chew into, and my quad med-pulse finish the job pretty well.

Basically, learn the limitations of your mech and how to counter them with its strenghts. KC got an incredible torso twist. Direwolf not so much but you still got that sweet vertical angle and an insane amount of firepower at your disposal. Atlases are very resistant but with less weapons. Still that AC20 punches like crazy and it can come equipped with ECM. They are all valid at their roles.

That said I'd increase their armor still to make them feel more in tune with the mech titans they are, but they're are definitively not useless.

Edited by Mlstrum, 06 November 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[FupDup]

GreyNovember, on 06 November 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

-
Cheetahs, Firestarters, and Spiders are the only ones with "Godlike" boxes. That hardly qualifies as many.
-

Spiders can't qualify as "godlike" because they don't have any real level of firepower. 2-3 energy hardpoints is woefully inadequate, especially after the Clan invasion arrived.

The Spider has never been a truly effective light mech, contrary to forum opinions (during the months that people complained hard about Spiders, Jenners were competitively superior, and basically still are today).

[Lugh]

Burktross, on 06 November 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

I concur. Free mechs too!
Definitely worth the other... what... 8 gigs?

The only problem is that alls fun till you put clan mechs in the equation.
we had offensive quirks for a reason

Initial reports from the PTS are saying that IS mechs are dominating on that version right now.

This would be because they run lasers and other weapons cooler than the clans. And with less heat cap, clans are suffering.

[Mystere]

Random Carnage, on 05 November 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:

This game has devolved into a light-centric FPS.

I'd believe you if not for the fact that lights are still the least played in this game. Heavies still rule, with mediums and assaults alternating for second place.

[9thDeathscream]

Assaults are unforgiving.

Make one positioning mistake and its over. Can't run and hide or get to cover.

In saying that, they are far from useless. A good assault can make the difference between a win or a loss.

Its all about positioning.

[Shae Starfyre]

I have over 2K drops in Dires, and nearing that in Atlas' (predominantly in DDC).

I tend to avoid Guass and lots of Lasers, so my Dires are the 4 UAC10; or 2 UAC10 and one UAC20 or 2-3 UAC 20 type builds (I have learned to twist while I shoot, and it is pleasing when you see those shells track; hard, yes, but doable under certain circumstances), and my DDC is a 2xUAC5, 2xMPL, and 3xStreaks, I think I am running a 340 or 345 engine in this (probably around 900 matches in this config alone - subsequently, been playing this since 2013).

One on One with a light, in these builds, it's a 50/50 for me if I know they are gunning for me. If I catch them by surprise, it's in my favor. If they catch me by surprise, it's in their favor (this happens more times than naught); this is the gist of the issue, but it is indicative of my play style as much as the good light pilot knowing I am in a position to support the team, and my demise may be worth the risk.

A skilled light knows how to counter a reverse counter move; both of these Mechs are hard pressed to address a skilled light pilot that is gunning for you; I will say though with the arm movement of the Atlas, I find dealing with lights in my particular Atlas build easier than when I am in a Dire without PPD.

Suffice it to say, the battlefield, the flow of the battle, and the team play a heavy role in how Lights affect an Assault's ability to engage and defeat them.

I like what one person said, lights and assaults are hard to play, and aside from the agility changes coming up, I felt that one on one, they have equal opportunity to deal with one another (this is knowing they are gunning for you; but the flip side is that they in turn know you are gunning for them).

However, one on one rarely happens; and with the agility nerf coming up, I think, as was stated already, the assault is going to feel it the most. That is my personal opinion and from my experience.

I also find dual light attacks a dead right downfall every single time IF I have no backup; and you know, even with engaging them simultaneously, moving from one light to the next to help spread damage, that they stop, aim, and fire before moving with a smug look on their face (The Mech even seems to mimic this posterior pretense much to my chagrin like the very designers had this in mind - Cretans)!

Edited by Aphoticus, 06 November 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[Burktross]

Lugh, on 06 November 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

Initial reports from the PTS are saying that IS mechs are dominating on that version right now.

This would be because they run lasers and other weapons cooler than the clans. And with less heat cap, clans are suffering.

It depends on how the match boils down. If the clan mechs get good scouts, they can still safely laser poke at range while the IS mechs get hammered. That's not to say its an incredible unbalance, it just seems... tilted.

[ChronoBear]

This thread amazes me. I have been playing since beta (if you must check please check my other profile beartech28)
I used to have a pretty good k/d ratio and I'm hovering in T3 on both accounts.

I love assault mechs. Loved em in TableTop, love them in MW games, for the most part love them here. However the current trend in Assaults and the play of assaults is beginning to concern me. Assaults just dont feel like assaults. They feel like paper tigers.