306 replies to this topic

[fbj]

Hi. I just want to say. I really like bacon and playing CW.

Solo or Team-Based.

Just have fun. It's a video game. It isn't the end of the world.

[Valar13]

PFC Carsten, on 19 November 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

So, it's poor attitude when you desire a fair match? FWIW, right now, there's absolutely no matchmaking. Consider having a soccer/football leagues without divisioning into classes, so that your friendly neighborhood team would face Real Madrid - and not for charity, but when they want to achieve something.

Because: „Solo players“ is not the correct assumption. Impromptu Teams would be correct.

Easy solution: Separate group and solo queue as in „quick play“-mode. Problem solved. Units have to wait hours for a game? Cry moar.

THE ENTIRE POINT OF CW IS NO MATCHMAKING.

In all caps so the slow folks can figure it out finally.

[Valar13]

iLLcapitan, on 24 November 2015 - 01:51 AM, said:

Sorry but this is not overambitious in a community warfare mode. Dropping with a unit in TS is basically a totally different game experience, like it or not. If you prefer to go as lone starr, deal with the consequences. Or enjoy the pugging, which i chose for myself.

You seem a bit bitter over certain things. A headset costs around 15 bucks in my book and there are plenty of units, which are pretty easy going about participation and attendance.

Hell, my own unit has a modular system of companies, each with its own playstyle. Some have drop/practice nights, some get together once in a blue moon to run public drops, some just meet up and play other games most of the time.

It's really very quick and entirely free to run TS, jump in a channel with no mic, and just *listen* to what's being called by the organized groups.

I'm by no means an ace pilot, but I'm competent and I owe most of that competency to the advice and example of better pilots, because I listen.

[Valar13]

Krellshand, on 29 November 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Well, because WE DONT WANT TO? Not everybody wants to play in a unit, face it.

Oh, and the majority of players in CW are solos, as Russ statet. And he is desperatly tryig to get more solos from the playerbase involved to revive some of the fighting on the map. Go look on his vlog

So, just guess who is keeping the whole thing alive?

Forming a 12-man =/= Making or joining a unit. If you can't be bothered to utilize the (completely free) tools (readily) available to allow you to coordinate, you don't deserve to win, ever.

[Lily from animove]

kamiko kross, on 03 December 2015 - 06:33 AM, said:

Oh I utterly agree! I've had AMAZING pug games in CW where 3-4 peeps start talking and most of the rest talk using the text chat. I was in a pug once that beat a 228 premade.....because we ALL talked and planned together. I really don't get all the "elitist" crap thrown at people sometimes-simply leaving your ego at the door and talking to your team mates improves ALL the game modes by a huge factor. Truoble is, there seems to be so many socially maladjusted people here that simply WON'T talk or work with others, it spoils the game.
The other trouble is, this attitude is carrying over from solo play to all the other modes and rather than man up so to speak and recognize the bare facts of the issue-people just cry and demand everything is changed to suit them...makes me wonder what half of these people are like in real life......

Again I utterly agree with you, but it's kinda not just this game-it's online players the world over. I consider myself a casual player. I don't take the game to seriously and don't have all day to play. I have other real life responsibilities.
But I do:
Use things like TS
Speak and try to co ordinate in whatever team I'm in
Try to make team oriented decisions whilst in things like CW
Try to group up when I can and speak to other players

Now, that makes me an "elitist" to the "majority" it seems. the fact I understand online multiplayer games are about the people first and game second with team work being the most powerful weapon.
Online games have changed, I saw the first of it back when I first started WoW the massively solo online roleplaying game:)
EVERYTHING has to be easy and solo friendly. EVERYONE that puts some degree of thought and effort in is a tryhard.
Gamers now have never been so lazy and entitled, the whole online experience is ME,MYSELF and I.
Trouble is, those of us "the minority" that like deeper, more meaningful online playtime keep getting told yo shut up, as there is less of us and we are less important. Because it's the waves of solo ubercasuals that are the important ones. Our gaming is dying out.....where do we go to game?
I'm currently struggling to find an mmo I like due to all of them being solo fests at the minute, I've watched my hobby slowly die for me over the past 10 years due to what we now have in MWO.

MWO is dying because it didn't cater to the solo army. It didn't have armoured warfare style PVE-big mistake. PGI still thinks people value being social and teamwork....they don't ME ME ME! They also have barely done ANY advertising...
As for what you said about casuals keeping the game alive? I disagree. The vast majority of casual players (i.e unit/cw players) on my 100+ friends list are now gone. They don't play anymore, nor pay anymore.
If I went for example, you'd need 60 ubercasuals all spending $50 each-just to break even.....

The only things they have in common?
They value group play.
They valued being social.
They wanted actual community warfare.

These are all $2000+ spenders...bad news is that when your paywhales start to walk.

We really need to sort out:
Some form of armoured warfare style pve for the ubercasuals-maybe a campaign mode?
A mission creator for said pve mode (you could recreate lore battles etc).

Proper leagues for group play-in game with actual prizes, like maybe custom decals/skins/mc etc.
Some form of in game hiring hall for groups.
Grouping needs to be promoted, maybe a bonus depending on group size?

Proper chat lobbies to facilitate said grouping.
A shallower economy curve, people need to earn more money.

MUCH better communication with the community, maybe focus this on the launcher as many can't be bothered to do the forum thing.

CW, oh boy it NEEDS a reason to hold territory-maps need redesigns to avoid the killzone funneling....


But most of all, our community needs a reality and attitude check.

Much truth in these, I guess we will keep palying underdog games that still carry these values, but they will never be popular.

Have a look at camelot unchained. http://camelotunchained.com/v2/
The devs at leaste house some of the older values they want to stick to.

MoeX, on 29 November 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

You're making this far too easy for yourself. As has been stated above, not everyone has the resources or simply wants to join a unit with ranks. And even if you got friends for a premade, that doesn't mean you got the time to play this game 24/7 with ranks and stuff like you nerds. Pugs and premades should be seperated. It's just no fun at all for the pugs, and you can't tell me you're improving your skill with clan swarming unprepared pugs. If you're really that good you don't need to use the obviously more powerful mechs in the game. As has been also stated above, arctic cheetah swarming has nothing to do with honor.

If you don'T want to join a unit then don't do it, but stop blaming the game. Ranks? wow they are pure flavour you and your mech is the asset not any kind of "label" within this unit. Most units do not even require the 24/7 activity you describe. This is just made up by you to have an excuse. Your entire mentality of telling people being nerds and making these assumptions LOL. So tell me about these "ressources" needed? For events like tukayyid you only need TS, whcih is for free, to listen to the dropcommander. the second ressource is a working PC running MWo, which I guess you have. The third is a brain to follow the float and commands of the Team. Done. Doesn't requires even a mic, nor any kind of 24/7 nerdism. Just knowing how your mech works, a free to downlaod comm and a bit common sense.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 December 2015 - 01:37 AM.

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

For all who think this gamemode was made for the whole community to play, here is the most important iformation:

IT IS NOT CW, IT IS FACTION PLAY.

No one wants the Leeroys in a 100% teambased gamemode. Even PGI wants you to stick to a faction and be a "member" of a team. And pls, pls, pls...act like a member and help your team.

If you are not able to do this, just stay in quickplay till earth freezes.

I forgot to show you the most important sign out here in faction play:

!!!ATTENTION!!!

YOU ARE ENTERING THE HARSH DESERT OF FACTIONS. YOUR MATCHMAKER HAS NO POWER HERE!!!

[PFC Carsten]

Unfortunately, you cannot do anything against the Leeroys. And they make the game even worse for those PUGers that really want to play as it's intended.

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

So true...


...and so sad

[Commander A9]

Been winning all night tonight...still encountering the opposition whining. Topic still has relevance. I will repeat myself.

It is not my fault that the enemy refuses to coordinate.

It is not my fault that you are unable to survive our tactics.

It is not my fault that you can't face-roll 12 Clan mechs by yourself.

Join a unit, join a team, join a Teamspeak, fight as a team, or suffer the consequences.

Done.

[Dashen]

Kim FartDashion, on 19 November 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

I have read this topic and the OP has some good points but so do many others posting here I personally have only played MWO a short time but it is very fun in Solo or CW Matches. Im just a Casual player not being on a team yet because I'm new and want to learn the game more.

What is very surprising to me is how balanced a pug Vs Pug match is in CW compared to a Pug Vs 12 man team. A mixed CW team match is balanced quite well also. I only have 1 mech purchased so far a Ebon Jaguar-A I find it is a good mech but it lacks Armor or it has many weak spots but from what I'm reading on the Forums many of MWO'S mechs have flaws.

MWO so far is fun and exciting to me maybe the shine has not wore off yet but please be more friendly in Matches to many players yell if your new or yell if a match goes badly and it ruins the emersion for me so please stop yelling at people in games those that are so unhappy with MWO and CW )).

P.S To those who beat me in Solo or CW (Good Game) I only hope everyone can get along play fair and have fun I know I do when players are not Complaining all the time Thanks ))))

On a sidenote and very OT, look at your EBJ from the side, it's the best way to see what's wrong with that mech in CW *wink*

[Jon Gotham]

Lily from animove, on 07 December 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

Much truth in these, I guess we will keep palying underdog games that still carry these values, but they will never be popular.

Have a look at camelot unchained. http://camelotunchained.com/v2/
The devs at leaste house some of the older values they want to stick to.



If you don'T want to join a unit then don't do it, but stop blaming the game. Ranks? wow they are pure flavour you and your mech is the asset not any kind of "label" within this unit. Most units do not even require the 24/7 activity you describe. This is just made up by you to have an excuse. Your entire mentality of telling people being nerds and making these assumptions LOL. So tell me about these "ressources" needed? For events like tukayyid you only need TS, whcih is for free, to listen to the dropcommander. the second ressource is a working PC running MWo, which I guess you have. The third is a brain to follow the float and commands of the Team. Done. Doesn't requires even a mic, nor any kind of 24/7 nerdism. Just knowing how your mech works, a free to downlaod comm and a bit common sense.

Lol, that was my frustration coming out-the separate yet another Q crowd have driven my half bonkers with that stupidity, the bare faced facts of it stare them in the face but they deflect on and on and on.....
As for Camelot-I'm hyped about it, but it's so far away.....

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Commander A9, on 07 November 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

Alright, fellas. Excuse me for being brash and direct, but I want to make this clear.

I just got out of a 12-man drop alongside a major large Clan unit, and in the course of us scoring 21-1 by the time the game was halfway done, unorganized public players began screaming at us for using 'cheater mechs,' while likewise declaring that they were disgusted with Community Warfare, but refused to join units or different factions. I think more time was spent by the opposition screaming in chat than putting rounds downrange.

Amidst remarks that players wanted to quit the teams they actually were assigned to, offers to join the team I was droppin alongside were rejected over the belief that our teammembers were dishonorable or unsportsmanlike, despite complaints of poor performance from our opposition.

Our team was victorious because we took advantage of the opposition's inability to organize into a solid 12-mech 'deathball' and systematically tore them apart with proper target-calling, fire-focusing, and maneuver warfare, never holding down an area and always remaining mobile to avoid getting pinned down. Many of us used our own mechs rather than trial loadouts and adhered to our preferred loadouts.

And somehow, we found ourselves getting screamed at, accused of cheating, and being continuously belittled for our choice of playing styles, mechs, tactics, the fact that we were winning so effectively as a 12-man unit, and being accused of all manner of things completely unrelated to this game.

Let me say this: the argument against joining units and against using VOIP programs while favoring to drop in random unorganized gatherings in hopes of securing victory in an environment dominated by major 12-man units with no skill matchmaker system beyond who you recruit in your drop team is extremely flawed and illogical. Especially when you continue repeating the behavior expecting different results. That quite literally is the definition of insanity.

If you are upset over your current circumstances in Community Warfare, take steps to change them, or else you will continually suffer defeats at the hands of 12-man units. This goes for everyone on ALL factions on ALL sides as members of ALL teams.

I am part of a large unit; almost 300 people. We have a Teamspeak, we have leaders with rank, and we have experienced mechwarriors who have played this game, Battletech, and Mechwarrior for years. We have practiced long enough to understand what mechs, tactics, weapons, maneuvers, and strategies work for us, and through this, we are able to secure victory.

We drop as 12-man units.

We are Clan.

While we have Arctic Cheetahs, the Inner Sphere has Firestarters, numbers, and quirks...lots and lots of quirks.

If you drop as a public group player, independent of a unit, independent of Looking For Group, without a Teamspeak, without using VOIP, and without having someone step up to take command, you run the greater risk of losing against experienced, 12-man, well-equipped teams who coordinate their maneuvers, have established drop commanders, and have a greater understanding of how to effectively do battle.

As a member of 12-man unit force, I am not responsible for a player's unwillingness to learn to play as an effective member of his team.

I am not responsible for an opposing team's inability to organize, inability to execute proper tactics, inability to learn how to play as a team, and inability to have one of their members garner the courage to take command.

I am not responsible for the environment PGI has created in the form of Community Warfare.

My team is not responsible for a player's decision to drop as a random public player. When you click "attack," you give your consent to fight whoever is waiting for you. And if you find yourself facing a 12-man team, that's your fault, not your enemy's and certainly not PGI's. No one is forcing you to play Community Warfare, and the only thing that controls who you fight is the choice of selecting planets.

But you do have plenty of measures to better your chances of securing victory.

To add to this, it cannot be justified to me logically that a player refuses to join a unit or another faction because such circumstances are "easy-mode," and yet in the same breath will scream and shout about how Community Warfare needs to be revolutionized to "balance" against the previous combat conditions and domination brought on by 12-man units. PGI is not going to do anything to counterattack the teamwork exercised by effective 12-man units (aside from nerfing certain mechs continuously to the ground to compensate for skill gaps in their pilots).

Your mechs aren't underpowered, your technology isn't underpowered: teamwork is what is winning or losing matches. If you want to win, learn how to play as a team. Drop with a unit, get Teamspeak, change up your loadout, focus fire, call targets, maneuver properly. Short of that, drop on a planet that doesn't have a 12-man team sitting on it.

Winning the match starts with what you choose to do for your team.

<Slow_Clap>

Yup. Dead on.

</Slow_Clap>

Seriously, that's WHACK. IS has been crushing lately, so if they went down 21-1 in IS against Clan, they were worse than bad. Like, seriously, that should be impossible. I think you broke some physical law. Call Hawking.

Yeah, this is VERY simple. You get with a team to play CW. If you can only put together 3 of you today, that's still better than going solo. OR, you look for a planet with a less-than-12 group in queue and try to tag along with them.

TeamSpeak? It's F***ING FREE! Don't have a mic? No worries, LISTEN IN ANYHOW BECAUSE DAFUQ DO YOU THINK A TEAM-BASED GAME IS?!?!?!?!?!?

At least in-game VOIP, and thank you to PGI for implementing that (it wasn't there two years ago).

Gonna whine that you're getting killed, rather than try to fight and learn something? You deserve to be embarrassed, then.

It's not that I don't think new players should be able to access CW at all, since we don't have any kind of tutorial for them AT ALL. Only way to learn is to DO. But you've got to be willing to learn, and lesson number ONE is that this is a TEAM GAME MODE. PERIOD.

Don't like it? Go to the solo queue. Have fun in the shallow end.

TEAM GAME. TEAMWORK OP. And so on.

GAWD, I hate humans....

[Commander A9]

Tonight, my 12-man found itself fighting pugs after we got done engaging a Ghost Bear unit.

My 12-man dropped into an empty planet's defense que into Emerald Taiga. We were on the attacking side in Invasion. 12 random players decided to consent to participate in Community Warfare and engage our unit.

We had no idea they were pugs.

They had no idea we were a 12-man.

Because we can't pick the enemies we wish to fight beyond selecting a planet.

My 12-man was victorious, 48-27, due to our ability to, once again as I repeat myself, utilize teamwork, maneuver warfare, fire-focusing, and proper loadouts (seriously, how many lasers can you stuff on that unarmored Stalker with its XL engine, and you wonder why you overheat and explode so quickly!?).

And, of course, we got screamed at, vehemently, by an independent unaffiliated Steiner pilot, as well as a member of a Steiner unit, both of whom took it upon themselves to proclaim that we were:
* going out of our way to seal-club
* ruining their game experience by fighting aggressively, flanking their sniping position they were assuming inside their own drop zone (at the top of the mountain), and sweeping them
* the worst unit on Clan Wolf because Wolf has lost significant amounts of territory, therefore, all of their units must obviously suck at this game
* a bunch of dishonorable ******** for prolonging the match rather than killing the gun after we took out 2 generators on the first attack wave
* corrupting Community Warfare
* talking **** (yet we were first insulted when these pilots initiated the dialogue in the first place)
* obviously bought all of our mechs with real cash to have a distinct advantage

Some of the quotes of this match are as follows:

-"[unit tag] couldn't win a premade if they had only dropships" -the Steiner unit pilot

-"you talk big **** for a no skill loser" -the solo Steiner pilot (who was first to initiate the conversations, and whom 10 of our guys outscored by the end of the match)

-"i dont care how much money you've spent on this game, man. the fact is you ruin it and everyone hates you. have fun" -the solo Steiner pilot

-"its not teamwork to pubstomp you f***ing arrogant [homophobic slur]. i have no idea how you're this stupid. seriously." -the solo unaffiliated Steiner pilot

Note: offers to duel 1-on-1 by rules of zellbrigen went ignored.

I have screenshots to prove this.


Gentlemen, let me say: no matter your circumstances, it is THIS kind of behavior, this trash-talking, this toxic expression of oneself, and this whining and carrying on that provides the toxic experience for players, not the units who are winning. It does nothing to deter the enemy from his aggression: in fact, it only fuels him further.

Beyond offering honorable opponents zellbrigen, none of us will hold back from our coordinated maneuvers. We will continue to exercise teamwork in order to better execute our attacks, so you should expect more aggressive opponents forming teams to resist your attacks and spearhead into your defense.

Do not whine for anyone to "fix" Community Warfare-the matchmaking cue system isn't broken.

Do not proceed to tell me that I am ruining your game experience simply because you are losing and I am not fighting the way YOU wish me to fight. I will not throw a match; I will not cater to the enemy; I will not let my enemy dictate to me how to fight-ever.

It is true that the Clans have lost significant territory, but more factors are at play than one might want to acknowledge, from drop-deck tonnage differences leading to the proliferation of assaults to quirks/nerfs to major units switching to Inner Sphere to players getting bored of CW to people still returning from holiday break.

I am not at fault for your team's poor performance, inability to execute, inability to coordinate, inability to designate and follow a drop commander, and inability to properly outfit a battlemech. I do take responsibility, however, for performing well with my unit in my team with the tools I have at my disposal to win. If you drop in Community Warfare alone, and you lose to a major unit, you have no one to blame but yourself.

The tools are there for you to utilize. Do it, and improve your abilities. If you choose not to do so, you choose to lose.

Edited by Commander A9, 07 January 2016 - 08:58 PM.

[PerfectDuck]

You're totally right Commander A9 but there are certain types who always find a way to preserve their ego in the face of sweeping defeat. Agressive gamers who stake their own self-worth on games rather than simply enjoy them for a challenge. They will find something inside their heads in order to preserve ego and validate themselves. The most common insult they make is to assert that people who are good at the game (better than them) simply don't have a life outside of the game. If they can't use that, don't worry, they'll latch onto anything else they possibly can and accuse you of everything you've already listed. Pay no mind to these types, in fact take pity because they usually have a hard time finding friends or fitting into a social group and are doomed to fail repeatedly. Maybe it's work-related stress that makes them come home angry and beat up on other players and the only way to still 'beat' players when it's obvious that the game itself hasn't worked is to go verbal.

[ZenFool]

48-27 is a fairly common score in CW anyway. It's difficult to call that "seal clubbing" in my book. As I stated long ago in this post, people get angry when they know first wave they are going to lose and still have to play it out. They'll use the excuse that your a (insert four or greater here) man team and are pug hunting because it gives them a seemingly legitimate reason to lose.

That same 48-27 type of score would have resulted in "gg" on both sides if it appeared closer wave one or was two pug groups.

Just need to point out a couple of things about this situation. There are currently two FRR units that I've played with that have intentionally pushed into the enemy haphazardly after the first wave(we knew we were goin to win)or intentionally ejected right before the end of the match, all in an effort to give points to our enemy. Kudos to them and to every unit that follows suit. You've already won or know you will, be the better sport.

None of this "gg close" or "teamwork OP" crap. Just gg, enjoy the free kill assists from our damaged mechs.

[DarkMetalBlade]

Jeeze, A9... I never would've thought that this problem would be this bad...

Because of this, Armando's wish to bar solos from playing CW is starting to look more appealing to me - since we know for sure that they likely won't use the tools set in front of them, they need to be barred from this mode, to protect these people from themselves.

[StonedVet]

Heaven forbid there be teamwork in a team oriented game!

Oh the horror!

Damn OP teamwork buff at it again!!

Edited by Lowridah, 07 January 2016 - 02:59 PM.

[pyrocomp]

Well, sometimes the opponent is not a threat, really. But...
There was an example above (for some reason used repeatedly across the forum) 'the neighbourhood team meets Real Madrid'. And, yes I'd play that match. I know the odds and zero chances, I will still play. It's a game, at least I'll learn something.
And being a sportsman on my own I will say that in reverse roles I will play. But not as against the equal-to-me opponent, but with other goals. You, already knowing mid-game that your opponent is no match for you continued on. And got nasty response. Not that they are correct ranting and insulting, but you are not that innosent.
This is a game, they wanted to have some game, some goal, some achiement of their own. You could mass-eject get into lights and continue to play a harder objective (and a more competitive one) announcing in general chat that the game is uneven and you'll try make it more fair for you oppenent. You could play to keep your every mech up and tell that to the opponent team. Give them some reachible goal and some respect.
You rant against upset solo players (who may have no idea how to play it correctly, help them, have a beter match later), and the whine about 'rollstomping 12-mans'. Help each other. In the end, you claim to be the Clan. The Clans have their ways of using the lowest bid to have the honor of the hard victory. Something tells me, you were not playing along that and used all you had, not just a lance against a wave. Try to be a clanner, not just name yourself. And I hope you'll less often hear rants and insults.

[Commander A9]

I understand the idea of achieving balance in a game.

But my objective is to win.

It is not my objective to balance the game, especially after Russ thinks balance will be achieved in CW when the major merc units switch back to Clans. Balance is PGI's job, not mine.

So I will not downgrade, scale back, or depreciate my performance and capabilities simply because the enemy isn't capable of matching my skill or is whining because of the opponents they have found themselves facing. They clicked "launch," they consented. It's on them. I'm going to fight my hardest and do my best, and if we crush them summarily, so be it.

I've gone 48-0 in CW before and I have screenshots to prove it.

Because in the end, if we end the match early, we get screamed at for "denying everyone points." If we score 48 kills to secure the gun platform, and then take out the gun, we get accused of "farming."

So, no, the enemy can't have it easy from me. They can't have a free pass. They can't have a downgraded rolled-back opponent to fight from my end. They will get me at my best, bearing my teeth, and fighting like a razor.

Edited by Commander A9, 09 January 2016 - 07:31 AM.

[Armando]

Kieva, on 08 November 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

The problem is that PGI sides with them.

If PGI is doing it right IMHO they will not take sides. (but if they DO, side with teamwork IMNSHO)