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Enough Whining


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#141 LupineShadow

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 08:09 PM

View PostCommander A9, on 09 January 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

I understand the idea of achieving balance in a game.

But my objective is to win.

It is not my objective to balance the game, especially after Russ thinks balance will be achieved in CW when the major merc units switch back to Clans. Balance is PGI's job, not mine.

So I will not downgrade, scale back, or depreciate my performance and capabilities simply because the enemy isn't capable of matching my skill or is whining because of the opponents they have found themselves facing. They clicked "launch," they consented. It's on them. I'm going to fight my hardest and do my best, and if we crush them summarily, so be it.

I've gone 48-0 in CW before and I have screenshots to prove it.

Because in the end, if we end the match early, we get screamed at for "denying everyone points." If we score 48 kills to secure the gun platform, and then take out the gun, we get accused of "farming."

So, no, the enemy can't have it easy from me. They can't have a free pass. They can't have a downgraded rolled-back opponent to fight from my end. They will get me at my best, bearing my teeth, and fighting like a razor.


I enjoy all your posts, A9. From a fellow Wolf (Haralachan from the other SWOL), I gotta applaud the scores. I'm keenly aware of how easy it is to kill the entire planet in a lone X1 ehehehhehe.

It makes me wonder though, if people are going to absolutely nerdrage/tableflip over a 48-27 loss (which, in my book, a pug vs coordinated team should be at least content with), I can only imagine the murderous rages of a team that loses 48-0. Have any of your members been murdered by disgruntled enemy pilots showing up at their doors?

#142 Commander A9

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 07:02 PM

XD No, not yet; we're all still here last I checked!

Actually, the team we beat when we went 48-0 was totally silent, and I don't think they were pugs either. The game afterward when we won 48-7, THOSE guys were screaming at us. XD

#143 White Bear 84

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 07:10 PM

View PostKhereg, on 08 November 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:


In PGI's defense, they aren't in business to teach people how to be grownups.


Posted Image

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#144 ztac

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 02:32 PM

Same old problem ... no balance .. not enough players to do balance!

No skill / ELO system ... Not one that works .... I just came back to see where this game is and to be honest it seems to be going in reverse an still PGI do not understand that stats mean nothing in a team based game!

Last hits , damage done ... scouted enemies is a team performance and down to luck as much as anything else!

Anyway already tired of sitting in queues and meta mechs! Same old problems with game mechanics ... nothing really has changed to be honest ... just more hype less gameplay!

#145 Korrner

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 09:10 PM

View PostPerfectDuck, on 05 January 2016 - 10:49 PM, said:

You're totally right Commander A9 but there are certain types who always find a way to preserve their ego in the face of sweeping defeat. Agressive gamers who stake their own self-worth on games rather than simply enjoy them for a challenge. They will find something inside their heads in order to preserve ego and validate themselves. The most common insult they make is to assert that people who are good at the game (better than them) simply don't have a life outside of the game. If they can't use that, don't worry, they'll latch onto anything else they possibly can and accuse you of everything you've already listed. Pay no mind to these types, in fact take pity because they usually have a hard time finding friends or fitting into a social group and are doomed to fail repeatedly. Maybe it's work-related stress that makes them come home angry and beat up on other players and the only way to still 'beat' players when it's obvious that the game itself hasn't worked is to go verbal.


I agree with what you said, but reading your first sentence my only thought was "A defeat doesn't have to shatter ego, that would be being too fragile" followed by "I pity those who NEED to win, to validate themselves".

Now having read the whole post, I understand what you meant and totally agree that those people should not be paid attention too. That would be letting them ruin your gaming experience ... and in my own experience, THAT is the only way how I can ruin my fun. And then, I couldn't logically blame the borderline psychotic sore loser, since it is I who would let him get to me.

I usually start and end the matter with "You obviously do not have any idea of how life goes, I won't be paying attention to you" ... most of the time I don't even have to share that thought with them, even tho I might take 4-5 seconds of my life to be sorry for them.

#146 Cath

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 12:00 AM

man, I wish I had some of the kool-aid.

I'll repeat this again. I do not know of ANY gaming company whose product allows full pug vs full premade in a pvp environment. None of the many games out there that I have played and done well in allow such a travesty that exists here.

Do you really want to know why people get upset here? It's because, like myself before I read about it, simply cant believe that any game would actually allow that sort of thing. When they get their stuff pushed in by a 12 man premade while they are pugs, it's so outside their experience that they revolt against it.

Then they are told that it's their fault they got destroyed because they didn't use the tools available to work as a team; who didn't practice together; who didn't become gaming lifers slaved to the dps meter(sarcasm). Elitism is very real here in MWO. And if pgi wants a successful game, it's got to end, because very few are hardcore enough to do those things just to get the occasional win or feel like they had a good game.

I for one like improving, but also don't want to be a part of a hard core raid group. I've done that bit already.

Edited by Cath, 12 January 2016 - 12:11 AM.


#147 Yozzman

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 12:49 AM

There is never enough winning!! Posted Image

#148 Korrner

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 09:33 AM

View PostCath, on 12 January 2016 - 12:00 AM, said:

man, I wish I had some of the kool-aid.

I'll repeat this again. I do not know of ANY gaming company whose product allows full pug vs full premade in a pvp environment. None of the many games out there that I have played and done well in allow such a travesty that exists here.

Do you really want to know why people get upset here? It's because, like myself before I read about it, simply cant believe that any game would actually allow that sort of thing. When they get their stuff pushed in by a 12 man premade while they are pugs, it's so outside their experience that they revolt against it.

Then they are told that it's their fault they got destroyed because they didn't use the tools available to work as a team; who didn't practice together; who didn't become gaming lifers slaved to the dps meter(sarcasm). Elitism is very real here in MWO. And if pgi wants a successful game, it's got to end, because very few are hardcore enough to do those things just to get the occasional win or feel like they had a good game.

I for one like improving, but also don't want to be a part of a hard core raid group. I've done that bit already.


To me, what you just said sounds exactly the same as if I said this:

"MMORPGs are dumb, because they REQUIRE you to form a group and coordinate with others to be able to pass certain dungeons in the game ... why should I HAVE to group up if I don't want to, after all I paid for this game too etc., etc., etc."

The only difference, one game is PvE and the other is PvP.

I do agree that there are not a lot of games who do it ... but that is because gaming have been dumbed down so much since I've started playing video games, that players forgot games used to be a challenge. Nowadays, most games are like watching a movie ... I'm very glad that MWO's premise is "This shall play out as real warfare would".

After all, there's NOTHING that keeps PGI from making warfare "realistic" in the way that it depends on what the players do with it instead of coding a system that would ensure no one would get in an unfair fight. I'm glad they did, it is refreshing in this dumbed down gaming world we now live in. Remember, before there were no difficulty settings (and IMO players were so much less whiny).

#149 Commander A9

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 11:35 PM

There is a game that does.

EVE Online...

CounterStrike...

Actually...every game does.

Every game allows you to either deploy with a team you organize and invite privately, or drop in random matchmaker.

Every...game...on the market...let's you do exactly what you're doing here.

#150 Cloudfisher

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 12:16 AM

I just love people abusing broken features and telling everyone else that they should be happy about them doing so. I just cannot believe someone can be that naive. The warfare is broken, organized teams are rolling over pugs and the dev. team is doing nothing about it. In a short while there will be no more pugs and there will be like 4-5 teams going against each other and not having fun since they cannot continue winning effortlessly. This game is for everybody, not for those who like to bash noobs, but some people are oblivious to this fact.

Edited by Cloudfisher, 13 January 2016 - 12:17 AM.


#151 Rushin Roulette

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 12:58 AM

View Postpyrocomp, on 08 January 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

You could mass-eject get into lights and continue to play a harder objective (and a more competitive one) announcing in general chat that the game is uneven and you'll try make it more fair for you oppenent. You could play to keep your every mech up and tell that to the opponent team. Give them some reachible goal and some respect.

I get what you mean here... but that would only double the rage and QQ if the 12 man still wins. It is like adding insult to injury.
Now we have "the bad 12 man premade touched me in a bad place". If that 12 man would mass eject and beat the pugs with lights and mediums it would be "the bad 12 man premades touched me in a bad place and also made fun of me"

Saying that only PUGs are getting stomped is deffinitely not true. Honestly I haev seen some 12 player teams play worse than PUGs and I have seen PUGs from different factions (Defending a planet) play as together well and coordinated as a good 12 player premade. All that is needed is 1 player to take command and 11 others to listen and follow what is being said.

Lets face it. Some solo players like to place the blame on everything else but themselves, no matter what happens and how many friendly hints and tips are given.
  • TS is a free programm and every Faction has its own open and free to join and publicly anounced TS server. Search for them here in these forums.
  • You do not even need TS, as the ingame VOIP is readily available.
  • You do not need to have a mic or be able to talk in TS. Only listening is completely OK. Being able to talk can be an advantage if you request help from your teammates, but not more.
  • You do not need to join a unit to play in an organised group (see the points above)
  • If you do join a unit. you do not have to be competetive or invest more time than you already do.
  • Some people say CW is the elite level of MWO. this is not true. League and tournament play is the elite level and is played completely differently than either PUG or CW matches, there is no comparison. CW is just one step higher than Group Quickplay games.

Very basic tactics for CW which EVERYONE should follow (not only solo players, but also premade players);
  • Do not run in solo. ALWAYS wait up for all 12 of your teammates to spawn and run in together unless stated otherwise by the droplead
  • Do not break away from the group unless you have been assigned a specific target or objective.
  • Do shoot the same target as your teammates. The faster it goes down, the faster you are facing decreased incomming fire.
  • Always keep a minimum distance from your target. Facehuging a target only means you are blocking a large percentage of potential firing lines for your teammate, the closer you are the higher that percentage is. If your target is trying to face hug you, run past the opponent so that you do not block your teammates.
  • Do not stand way in the back sniping while everyone else is up front. You are making it easier for your enemies to focus on one less opponent infront of them. All you will end up with is 12 vs. you at the end with 2 or 3 mechs left to drop in.
  • Do not shoot your teammates in the back. Always check your firing line between yourself and that red box. If it is not free, then either move to the side or inform your teammate by name to move to one side/keep his distance if he is facehuging.
  • If there is a droplead using TS or ingmae VOIP. Listen and follow what the droplead says, even if the strategy may seem insane, there usually is a method behind it. If not, then a bad plan well executed is still better than no plan at all.


#152 Ssamout

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 08:58 AM

View PostCloudfisher, on 13 January 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

I just love people abusing broken features and telling everyone else that they should be happy about them doing so. I just cannot believe someone can be that naive. The warfare is broken, organized teams are rolling over pugs and the dev. team is doing nothing about it. In a short while there will be no more pugs and there will be like 4-5 teams going against each other and not having fun since they cannot continue winning effortlessly. This game is for everybody, not for those who like to bash noobs, but some people are oblivious to this fact.


CW IS MADE FOR UNITS/TEAM PLAY, so its a broken feature? The fact that pugs get pounded in there should not surprise anyone. ..As all these tiresome threads clearly point out. What is quite funny is the amount of qq:ing it has created, while at the same time pgi has announced that they will cater to whiny puggies in the next cw version, that is under development and coming out soon. BUT NO, must qq about evil 12man boogiewoogie units trying to play the game to its full potential. SHAME ON THEM. Must. Whine. Moar.

Anyone that knows how this game works, knows also that team play = op. Silly pugs seem to be oblivious to this fact.

#153 Cloudfisher

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:27 AM

View PostSsamout, on 13 January 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:


CW IS MADE FOR UNITS/TEAM PLAY, so its a broken feature? The fact that pugs get pounded in there should not surprise anyone. ..As all these tiresome threads clearly point out. What is quite funny is the amount of qq:ing it has created, while at the same time pgi has announced that they will cater to whiny puggies in the next cw version, that is under development and coming out soon. BUT NO, must qq about evil 12man boogiewoogie units trying to play the game to its full potential. SHAME ON THEM. Must. Whine. Moar.

Anyone that knows how this game works, knows also that team play = op. Silly pugs seem to be oblivious to this fact.


Here we go, another big bad OP player telling everyone else in PUGs that they're inferior. I personally enjoyed beating some of the OP clans in random pugs and for as long as this feature remains broken I will only be playing in PUGs since I would rather suffer with newbies than beat them mercilessly. Unlike some other "tough" guys here, I love Battletech universe and this game much better than my ego, so I don't want people leaving. This mode was designed for everyone who's allowed to play it and it's pretty much every single player in the game. There's no pride in beating newbies and it requires no skill, but "OP teams" continue doing so. Yet again, trying to defend that is pathetic.

Edited by Cloudfisher, 13 January 2016 - 09:29 AM.


#154 zolop

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:42 AM

View PostDeathlyEyes, on 17 November 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

PGI needs to institute a warning box that says something along the lines of "WARNING: You just selected to play COMMUNITY Warfare. You should expect to see COMMUNITIES, playing together as COMMUNITIES in this game mode. If you do not like this DO NOT PLAY THIS GAMEMODE.


This needs to be put in the first time click when the player clicks on faction warfare. Two sentences that get the point across entirely (in english).

I drop solo most time in CW and am not in any unit currently, for reference. But every now and then hop on FRR teamspeak to communicate better. Though last drop I had was mostly pugs, but we had a level headed person commanding, in MWO VoIP. Everyone (for the most part) listened and we won against a organized group, because we all worked as a team. WE won by destroying the objective and not by kills, teamwork is OP! Posted Image I do not mind facing organized groups because it is Community warfare...

Maybe add to the warning also, "Teamwork is required for this mode, it is objective based!".

Edited by zolop, 13 January 2016 - 10:00 AM.


#155 Ssamout

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:51 AM

View PostCloudfisher, on 13 January 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:


Here we go, another big bad OP player telling everyone else in PUGs that they're inferior. I personally enjoyed beating some of the OP clans in random pugs and for as long as this feature remains broken I will only be playing in PUGs since I would rather suffer with newbies than beat them mercilessly. Unlike some other "tough" guys here, I love Battletech universe and this game much better than my ego, so I don't want people leaving. This mode was designed for everyone who's allowed to play it and it's pretty much every single player in the game. There's no pride in beating newbies and it requires no skill, but "OP teams" continue doing so. Yet again, trying to defend that is pathetic.

Lolz a whamma., Most of my cw matches are while pugging so there's that. Sorry if I'm and inferior and op, cant help it.
My current unit doesnt play cw that much, cos there is no challenge in it with all those pugs about. Really hard to get them to play cw, and that's why I drop solo a lot. Most of the people I drop with would like a lot more challenge in cw, cos shooting trial mechs or non twisting skittles isn't fun at all. Feels like .. hmm.. seal clubbing..

Yeah, defending it like a ************.

Learn to read.

#156 Commander A9

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 11:37 AM

Well, even in 12-mans, sometimes we get beaten by unaffiliated players-it doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

The point is, one should utilize the tools available to go into Community Warfare in an organized format rather than alone.

If you go alone, you're begging to be blown apart.

#157 MischiefSC

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 12:29 PM

IRL I'm a Senior Analyst at a really big company. Generally that means I babysit reports while they compile, make spreadsheets pretty and help members of senior leadership work the printer and open e-mail attachments.

Aside from that I collect, compile, review and adjudicate employee performance metrics across all branches of the business. From retail to tech support, customer service, projects, pretty much everyone. Literally the mechanics of what makes someone 'good at their job' vs 'needs improvement'. I've got 600 people I connect with directly and just shy of 22,000 people to pull from for sampling. I build processes for helping employees of all types get better and improve. The mechanics of how to make people excel. Modesty aside I'm very good at it. I've helped my company develop our employees to be the absolute best in our industry; our customer service marks are so high we not only outstrip everyone else in our industry but are ranking comparable to dedicated service/luxury industries. Understanding what makes someone good at their job is my thing and I do it well.

It's actually all the same. Be in the guy behind a counter in the store dealing with the customer face to face, the person answering the phone in customer service, the tech support guy, the field service technician, the resource planning analyst, supervisors, managers, it's all the same. You'd call it the GIT GUD mentality. People who have it start out running but you can promote it in others in the right setting.

I've done it for this company for about 9 years now. Plotted the careers of countless employees, watched innumerable people join the company and either churn or promote or settle into a niche and disappear. Why it is, how it is that some people rocket right to leadership positions and success while others get out of training and barely tread water.

While not a simple topic a lot of it comes down to personal responsibility. Some people look at challenges and immediately set to finding ways to improve to overcome them. They set goals for themselves and put energy and effort into reaching them. The moment those people come into contact with good leaders who can mentor and direct them, BOOM. Thunderclap, their performance explodes upward and they develop. The best of them become good leaders in turn and keep the cycle going.

Good leaders coach and develop new leaders.

Good performers seek out good leaders and invest themselves in finding the best ways to perform.

Most are not in those groups though. They want success to fall into their outstretched hand. They have a set idea of how much effort they want to put forward and they want the bar for success to fall to that point and are upset when it doesn't. Since they're not willing to do more than the minimum effort level they've decided upon anyone who's doing more than that is 'doing something wrong'. They'll translate that to 'brown-nosing' or even 'cheating' because it's a level of effort they are unwilling or unable to invest.

So mediocre performers and bad performers are focused on blame. Since they have reached the limit of what they are *willing* to do they are unable to look at themselves as the problem so it's about blaming someone else.

MW:O is a team based PvP game.

Every single match, every single one, is you on a team of 12 vs another team of 12. There is no actual solo play just the inexplicable ability to join a team of randoms. That's the game. If you're playing MW:O, you're in a team game.

Within MW:O there's a 'hardcore' mode of CW which is hugely skewed towards the benefits of teamwork. That's the game. That's what it is. If you're playing it, you're playing a team-focused game.

So that's got the same issues. You've got the people who see that, adapt and excel because they recognize that the only thing they control is themselves and thus the only way to excel is to better themselves and then you've go the group that can not/will not change and are angry at a system that does not change to lower the bar to make them a winner.

Conversion from mediocre to top performer is hard. You can drag up the average by having clear processes in place and liberal use of recognition for success and a lot of hands on development but to turn someone from zero to hero you need to get them face time with a good leader and tuck them in with other top performers. You need to show them what being successful looks like so they can at least 'fake it until you make it'. Then when they do succeed you ensure they get recognition for it.

We don't have the tools for that in MW:O. We make it easy for bad players to just stay in a bad bubble. There's no effective way to tuck bad players in with good players on teams on comms to show them what success looks like so they can get that taste of it and want more.

So instead what we have is groups of good players that will continue to get better and better and attract good players while bad players float in a brown sea of bad players with no development or direction.

That's why I'm in favor of the queue split. We don't have to tools to help bads get good and you can not compel them to put in the effort if they're unwilling. So the bad players will blame everyone else for their failures and they will always be bad. They'll be happiest walled off in the cesspit so the standard for 'success' is so low they feel like a winner regardless. What you are not going to do is make them understand the realities of the game and what it takes to excel; if they could understand that they already would and they'd already be executing on it.

Edited by MischiefSC, 28 February 2016 - 12:31 PM.


#158 MischiefSC

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 07:49 PM

In the immortal words of Sheriff Buford T. Justice, in regards to trying to go solo in a multiplayer game, you're just trying to play with yourself instead of playing with your team. He had firm words on that -



#159 Vonbach

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 09:09 PM

With the seal clubbing that going on in CW you wonder why the game is dwindling.
You want to pub stomp? Fine have fun playing by yourself because thats where this will
end.

#160 Arrgyle

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 12:11 AM

View PostPFC Carsten, on 19 November 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

The problem are people who do not (want to) understand what the problem is and who instead keep posting the same stuff over and over again in order to silence all constructive criticism aimed at making CW a viable and fun game mode ...

It's not the Atlas, it's not LRMs and it's not Clans being considered OP. The Problem is matchmaking or rather the lack of it. Secondary problem is wait times and tertiary problem is lack of incentive/motivation to engage in CW as it was meant to be (i.e. a persistent and involving ongoing warfare).

What you describe (unlevelled Trial-Mechs vs. Clan-Meta) is a direct result from the lack of matchmaking - because new players who don't buy packages simply will not have access to superior clan tech from the start - and could only try CW with a complete Trial deck. This amplifies the unbalanced match-ups, as clan players tend to be more experienced since they had to play more to afford their drop deck compared to the IS player.


It all depends on the match-up, the play-style, your role etc. If the match up is fair, 1000 DMG isn't a problem for most, including solo players except for stomps or gen-rushes.


FIXED

I do love how you point out that "the clan players" are more experinced because they spent more time getting thier mechs... but the problem is the lack of a matchmaker.

That is hilarious! Your complete ignoring of what made the better player to be pushed aside for your point.

I can drop with a lance of teamates each of us easily doing 1500+ and one breaking 2k... all the pugs with lurms around us struggle to do 5-600 damage, win or lose.


And guess why I joined that unit? Because I droped solo from the end of tuk 1 to the begining of tuk 2. I was in faction Teamspeaks, yes teamspeaks, whenever I was on. I lead the random pugs on several occasions when they decided to listen to some awesome victories. I have 2 really good screenshots of literal last second wins with pugs. But you can only heard cats for so long...

Edited by Arrgyle, 29 February 2016 - 12:27 AM.






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