402 replies to this topic

[Ace Selin]

So the Arrow with 6 ballistic points loses all quirks for ballistics... this mech is pretty terrible before, now it just got worse .

Edited by Ace Selin, 14 November 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[AntleredCormorant]

Braddack, on 14 November 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

The Skill Debuff is great, finaly Mechs will fell more "Mech" like again.

Yeah, I'm for it. As much as I enjoy VTRs they probably should not handle like an oversized SDR. They'll still be agile for an Assault-class, but not on par with some Mediums.

As far as the Mech quirks, I'm less enthusiastic. At some point I think we should accept that some mechs are better at certain roles than others. The key here is making those different roles important, and that has more to do with game modes and scoring. And the IW stuff, too. The scoring is already weighted enough towards dmg/kills - running a Light mech shouldn't be a handicap to scoring. The sctructural/armor buffs seem cool as I think increasing TTK somewhat is cool. That being said, an alpha from an Assault mech should probably come close to crippling a Light. I'm not sure that's a problem, and I drive my Lights far more than my Asssaults.

That's why Information Warfare changes going on the back burner is kind of disappointing. I think a better method of tying that in to the 86'd "ghost range" business would've been converting a % to splash damage rather than losing it altogether. Makes sense that without targeting info you can lose the pinpoint accuracy. I think the major issue there was attempting to apply something so fundamentally game-changing to one particular weapon system. I also think adding an ammo drop consumable for CW would go a long way towards curbing the high-alpha laser meta.

On that note I'm a little skeptical of anything that improves Clan SSRM or LRM. Really what I would like to see is a removal of minimum range for IS LRM. Do it for the PPC, too. I need a stronger argument than "lore" when it comes to game balance.

Edited by AntleredCormorant, 14 November 2015 - 06:58 AM.

[Kaptain]

looks decent overall.

Happy the last last lock damage idea has been scrapped.

AC2s heat should be .5 or less. Good to see it is being reduced though.
Both IS AC10s need some more love. The ammo change makes sense.

The efficiency nerfs look very heavy handed. Heavy/slow mechs are clunky enough as is.

I would like to see smaller changes to srms and lrms. Numbers like %33 are too much imo.

Quoting this guy again, because he gets it:

Tarogato, on 16 September 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

1. fix some of the heat values that PGI broke.
2. fix some of the damage values that PGI broke.
3. increase duration on Clan ER lasers if the above wasn't enough.
4. adjust ranges on Clan lasers if the above wasn't enough.

"What do you mean values that PGI broke?"

IS ML in tabletop deals 5 damage for 3 heat. PGI decided to make it cost 4 heat. (IS got nerfed)
IS SL in tabletop deals 3 damage for 1 heat. PGI decided to make it cost 2 heat. (IS got nerfed)
cERLL in tabletop deals 10 damage for 12 heat. PGI decided to give it 11 damage. (clan got buffed)
cSPL in tabletop deals 3 damage for 2 heat. PGI decided to give it 6 damage for 3 heat. (is that necessary?)
cMPL in tabletop deals 7 damage for 4 heat. PGI decided to give it 8 damage for 6 heat. (that's actually a nerf... )
cLPL in tabletop deals 10 damage for 10 heat. PGI decided to give it 13 damage. (wtf? really?)

Also... No changes to clan XL engines? Loosing a side torso needs to have more consequence.

Edited by Kaptain, 14 November 2015 - 07:05 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

AntleredCormorant, on 14 November 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm for it. As much as I enjoy VTRs they probably should not handle like an oversized SDR. They'll still be agile for an Assault-class, but not on par with some Mediums.

As far as the Mech quirks, I'm less enthusiastic. At some point I think we should accept that some mechs are better at certain roles than others. The key here is making those different roles important, and that has more to do with game modes and scoring. And the IW stuff.

I prefer piloting Lights so the Information Warfare changes going on the back burner is kind of disappointing. I think a better method of tying that in to the 86'd "ghost range" business would've been converting a % to splash damage rather than losing it altogether. Makes sense that without targeting info you can lose the pinpoint accuracy. I think the major issue there was attempting to apply something so fundamentally game-changing to one particular weapon system. I also think adding an ammo drop consumable for CW would go a long way towards curbing the high-alpha laser meta.

On that note I'm a little skeptical of anything that improves Clan SSRM or LRM. Really what I would like to see is a removal of minimum range for IS LRM. Do it for the PPC, too. I need a stronger argument than "lore" when it comes to game balance.

Just FYI, because medium mechs also got the same nerf, the handling comparison between a Victor and a Medium has not changed. Mediums are also hit by this nerf, but even before, the comparison was only valid for very large engine light assaults vs small engines mediums.

To be honest, I'm not super excited by the skill tree nerfs, but I could live with them, except the Twist X one. Some assaults are going to struggle with such limited torso twist range. I think about the Executioner... Because what makes it good is its agility, and having a 74 degree twist range is going to be very limiting.

[Gas Guzzler]

Livewyr, on 14 November 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

ohboy, weapon quirks.
That is going *SO* well on the live server.

Well.. I probably won't bother testing this one.
When it goes live, I will likely give it one chance, I better be miraculously impressed... (or what will likely happen is an uninstall, and diverting my resources to other games.)

They reigned in the top performers. It will only be better than it is now.

Besides, I have lots of fun on the live server so...

Anyway, you will probably get killed by some IS mech and be like "zOMG these weapon quirks ruin the game I quit". So I guess we won't be seeing you anymore.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 November 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alistair Winter, on 14 November 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

A lot of cool stuff and as usual in the latest PTS updates, I agree with most changes, but...

You still plan to keep going with weapon quirks?

You actually added a bunch of weapon quirks to several mechs?

So we're keeping weapon quirks for almost all mechs, but adding a number of different mechanics on top of that? That will make it easier to continuously balance the game?

Mechs that were problems got nerfed so you should be happy about that. I'm good with it.. 20% reduction in DPS from Dragon, HBK-4j, etc. 5ss got a 20% range nerf relegating to more of a brawling role... I think it's going to be good.

[AntleredCormorant]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 November 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Just FYI, because medium mechs also got the same nerf, the handling comparison between a Victor and a Medium has not changed.

That's valid, I guess a better way of saying it is that to me a VTR doesn't really feel like an Assault mech. Which is great of course, when I'm the one driving it. I think reducing the agility overall will be good. Tougher but slightly clunkier mechs sounds fun. I'm for the game being more sim-like & less FPS with robot noises.

FWIW I like that they are still trying to improve the game & tossing out new ideas, even if I think some of them are terrible. Seems to me the PTS is a great asset & it would probably benefit us to try not to freak out about the stuff being tested on it. That's the operative word, there - some stuff will pass and some will fail.

Edited by AntleredCormorant, 14 November 2015 - 07:07 AM.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 November 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Just FYI, because medium mechs also got the same nerf, the handling comparison between a Victor and a Medium has not changed. Mediums are also hit by this nerf, but even before, the comparison was only valid for very large engine light assaults vs small engines mediums.

To be honest, I'm not super excited by the skill tree nerfs, but I could live with them, except the Twist X one. Some assaults are going to struggle with such limited torso twist range. I think about the Executioner... Because what makes it good is its agility, and having a 74 degree twist range is going to be very limiting.

I think the acceleration and deceleration will have the most impact. Peeking around a corner without getting shot isn't going to be practical anymore. Basically, if you stick your neck out, you're now officially committed to that fight, so if there just so happens to be several mechs looking in your direction...you can't try to get behind the corner in time to not get rekt.

AntleredCormorant, on 14 November 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

That's valid, I guess a better way of saying it is that to me a VTR doesn't really feel like an Assault mech. Which is great of course, when I'm the one driving it. I think reducing the agility overall will be good.

80 ton mechs aren't "real" assaults because they sit between the tonnage of a heavy and the "actual" assaults. It's sort of like how 60 ton "heavies" are actually fat mediums and 40 ton "mediums" are actually fat lights.

[Scanz]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 November 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

because mechs are way too agile already, and it's just getting worse.

nothing change : -skill tree but +new turn rate quirks

[Malleus011]

The ECM fixes from Infowar need to be implemented before Steam, even if the rest of Infowar isn't.

[MovinTarget]

Scanz, on 14 November 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

nothing change : -skill tree but +new turn rate quirks

...for some mechs, yes... but they can now cherry-pick which mechs have that level of maneuverability...

As a light enthusiast, I will be curious to see if this will make lights harder to track/hit or make them harder to drive/survive...

[Karmen Baric]

Kaptain, on 14 November 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

looks decent overall.

Happy the last last lock damage idea has been scrapped.

AC2s heat should be .5 or less. Good to see it is being reduced though.
Both IS AC10s need some more love. The ammo change makes sense.

The efficiency nerfs look very heavy handed. Heavy/slow mechs are clunky enough as is.

I would like to see smaller changes to srms and lrms. Numbers like %33 are too much imo.

Quoting this guy again, because he gets it:


Also... No changes to clan XL engines? Loosing a side torso needs to have more consequence.

agreeing with all of this.


major thing that giving Clanners advantage is their XL engine and they get to keep it. For IS they pretty much cannot use IS XL because you too easy to die in most IS mechs using XL. this need to change.


IS lose quirks, so look like winners here are Clan mechs. clans still faster still harder to kill, why would anyone play IS now ?

Edited by Karmen Baric, 14 November 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Scanz, on 14 November 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

nothing change : -skill tree but +new turn rate quirks

which is quite a bit of change.... as it's not universal agility on chassis related quirks.

We got turn rates varying from 5-40% on quirks (some of which are probably too much still), and similar spread on twists, pitch, etc.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 November 2015 - 07:34 AM.

[Kamies]

What is with the BLR_1G and BLR_1G(P)? Why give Phoenix variant worse quirks than the standard version has?

[shopsmart]

If speed tweak is lowered, we might see the flea?

[MovinTarget]

shopsmart, on 14 November 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

If speed tweak is lowered, we might see the flea?

True, if the 172kph ceiling is not so easy to hit now, I feel a new ultrafast light coming on...

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 14 November 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

I think the acceleration and deceleration will have the most impact. Peeking around a corner without getting shot isn't going to be practical anymore. Basically, if you stick your neck out, you're now officially committed to that fight, so if there just so happens to be several mechs looking in your direction...you can't try to get behind the corner in time to not get rekt.


80 ton mechs aren't "real" assaults because they sit between the tonnage of a heavy and the "actual" assaults. It's sort of like how 60 ton "heavies" are actually fat mediums and 40 ton "mediums" are actually fat lights.

Yeah peaking is definitely going to be less forgiving. You have to be careful where you do it. Unless you are in a chosen Mech with huge accel/decel quirks.

[MovinTarget]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 November 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

Yeah peaking is definitely going to be less forgiving. You have to be careful where you do it. Unless you are in a chosen Mech with huge accel/decel quirks.

Remember the point is that it will be harder to get mechs with ALL the quirks. Some will be peekers, others should be tankers...

In a weird way, they are still simplifying and diversifying the field. When you use a mech, you will know need to know its specific strengths, more so than now since skills will be nerfed,

The one thing to watch out for is that some mech(s) with their more specific quirks don't ultimately dominate via that specific playstyle. (Poptarts in MW4 anyone?)

[Sjorpha]

I have no problems at all with the quirk changes, they all look pretty good.

I like the decrease to skill tree values, they made the mechs way to agile in general, I hope the future contains a reworked skill tree that is and actual tree with different paths to choose from.

I don't understand why they removed the target profile, new ECM mechanic and different sensor ranges. People were mostly positive about those changes as far as I could see. Why not only remove the things people didn't like, which was mainly the laser range on target thing and the lack of damage feedback without lock, and keep all the rest. Good work gone to waste there.

So it's now less controversial, but also watered down to the point where it no longer changes the basic gameplay. Shame.

[Ironically Ironclad Irony]

This skill down grade will affect the extreme ends of the weight spectrum the most...

Lights depend on the heat related efficiencies so that they can carry enough weaps to be viable. Assaults drive like sludge without the maneuvering skills.

Mediums and heavies have more flexibility to choose agility vs firepower (IS anyway).
A few clan mechs are screwed since they can't opt for a different engine. Don't forget that clan tech tends to run hot so those laser vomit boats will miss the heat skills too.

So in a funky way, the winners of this pass would appear to be IS mediums and heavies...