402 replies to this topic

[AntleredCormorant]

Summon3r, on 14 November 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

Lol so essentially nothing will/has changed. Will continue on with world of warships.

Nice one, enjoy outbidding your opponents on PtW power-ups.

[Appogee]

"Paul's Mech Recipe Book, 2nd Edition" doesn't seem like it's going to change much in terms of refreshing the stale gameplay.

Disappointing.

Edited by Appogee, 14 November 2015 - 01:47 PM.

[Dave222]

Worked hard to master my mechs kind of worth the effort don't see why they have to change them at all

[Rabtar]

Most of the changes seem reasonable with nothing sticking out as pants of head stupid. Quirks are reasonable, SRM and LRM changes are welcome. Little disappointed in the putting off of infotech but I understand that it needs more polish. My favorite change is this one though

Quote

Clan Mech XL Engines
When a Clan 'Mech loses a Side Torso, its Engine power is reduced by 20% for the rest of the match. This reduction applies to all factors affected by the Engine, such as turn rate, torso twist, and top speed.

Edited by Rabtar, 14 November 2015 - 02:12 PM.

[Darlith]

Wish they hadn't turned so many +armor quirks into +structure quirks. +Armor makes you feel sturdier, +structure just leaves you wandering around with weapons critted out for a bit longer.

[shopsmart]

Just read the nugget about clan engine XL side lose. Only 20% movement lose? I am surprised by this. I figure that a side lose means +10 heat... Or lower heat threshold to simulate tabletop. Hmm. Going to be something that can be tweaked or tinkered with later?

[Fractis Zero]

shopsmart, on 14 November 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

Just read the nugget about clan engine XL side lose. Only 20% movement lose? I am surprised by this. I figure that a side lose means +10 heat... Or lower heat threshold to simulate tabletop. Hmm. Going to be something that can be tweaked or tinkered with later?

With the changes to heat sinks I think PGI wants to see how it balances out before adding heat to loss of torso.

[MovinTarget]

At least they finally did something about Clan XL.. That is a start, at least...

Instead of a heat penalty they can just say they lost 1/3 of their engine heat sinks...

[shopsmart]

MovinTarget, on 14 November 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

At least they finally did something about Clan XL.. That is a start, at least...

Instead of a heat penalty they can just say they lost 1/3 of their engine heat sinks...

Same rational can be applied to IS then.

[627]

hmm... not much left from the great rebalance of 3051 or whenever we are right now.

I'm a bit disappointed that it came down to some tweaks to the quirks system.

I mean imho it was the right direction to drop theweapon quirks. To actually nerf everything across the board for better TTK and gameplay.

And maybe I was the only one but the... lets call it dynamic laser range wasn't that complicated to understand, given all our ghost mechanics that aren't documented ingame at all.

I really hoped for a bigger impact. But maybe the vocal minority is not that small at all. But on the other side, the voting thingy and with it map/gamepley monotony showed us how great that worked if you listen too much to your audience.

[MovinTarget]

From a lore perspective, if you buy into lore, IS XLs work exactly as they should now... Clan could survive a ST loss, but gimped so they are getting there...

[shopsmart]

If you follow lore. 3 crits kill an engine. 2 crits +10 heat. 1 crit is +5 heat. IMHO.

Edited by shopsmart, 14 November 2015 - 02:51 PM.

[MovinTarget]

But in lore did not the destruction of a ST w/ XL = death for an IS mech?

[MovinTarget]

Just pulled this from Sarna:

"There is a penalty in bulk, however. The Inner Sphere XL fusion engine is twice as large as the standard fusion engine, while the Clan model is about two-thirds larger. The larger volume of the engines makes them much more likely to end up in the path of penetrating hits. Further, these bulkier engines intrude into the side torso bays of a BattleMech, exposing the 'Mechs to catastrophic engine damage from structural damage that would be otherwise survivable."

So if I read that right, it sounds like neither should survive the loss of an entire ST + XL?

I mean "catastrophic engine damage" sounds like its pretty bad...

Edited by MovinTarget, 14 November 2015 - 03:00 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Gauss meta gets nerfed.

AC2 being made more like a heavier MG with range.

Missiles buffed, with ECM change coming, is LRMageddon IV on its way?

HS buffs with not laser penalty make Laser Boats even better.

All Basic Efficiencies nerfed.

[Weeny Machine]

I was a bit flabbergasted when I saw this:

"Equipment

• • ECM protective range will be reduced from 180m to 90m
  
• • IS Single Heat Sinks is having its cooling rate increased from 0.10 to 0.12.
  
• • IS Single Heat Sinks that are inside the engine will have their cooling increased from 0.1 to 0.11.
  
• • IS Single Heat Sinks will have their heat capacity will be increased from -1.0 to -1.2. This is increasing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.
  
• • IS Double Heat Sink has its heat capacity increased from -1.4 to -1.5. This is increasing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off.
  
• • Clan Double Heat Sink cooling rate increased from 0.14 to 0.15.
  
• • Clan Double Heat Sink capacity will be reduced from -1.4 to -1.1. This is reducing the maximum heat value for a 'Mech before it shuts down, not the speed at which it cools off."

Do I get it right that the number of heat sinks influence the heat value?

I thought we were trying to get away from huge alphas. However, this means people are shoving as many HS into their mech as possible and taking the most light-weight weapons for the punch which are...lasers.

Or do I forget something vital? I really hope so

Blood Skar, on 13 November 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

Those Mech Efficiency nerfs are crazy.

Kinetic Burst: 22.5% >7.5%
Twist X: 10% > 2.5%
Hard Brake: 25% > 7.5% (serious? thats 17.5% reduction!)
Twist Speed: 20% > 2.5% (are you freeking kidding me!? 17.5% again)
Arm Reflex: 15% > 2.5% (another huge reduction!)
Anchor turn: 10%>2.5%
Speed Tweak: 10%>7.5% (you know we will notice this one the most and hence the low reduction...sneaky).

Is this for the Steam release? So the newbies that join (who wont have any efficiencies) wont be fighting peeps that have full mastery??

If not i cant see why we need such HUUUUGE reductions.

That twist speed reduction alone is going to have a big effect.

Its already hard to stop my Artic Cheetah at the moment(hard to do small movements i mean) and im falling off cliffs etc by accident and now your reducing hard brake by 17.5%.

That seems way over the top and random. In fact all these nerfs are.....why pick such big numbers all the time? why not start with just 2.5%, then 5% and then 7.5%....why is it always such huge number% nerfs and changes you guys go with?

What do other peeps think of these?

One of the few things which seem right. Some assaults and heavies turn way too fast.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 14 November 2015 - 03:08 PM.

[Sereglach]

Bush Hopper, on 14 November 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

I was a bit flabbergasted when I saw this:
*snip*
Do I get it right that the number of heat sinks influence the heat value?

I thought we were trying to get away from huge alphas. However, this means people are shoving as many HS into their mech as possible and taking the most light-weight weapons for the punch which are...lasers.

Or do I forget something vital? I really hope so

Heat sinks have always affected the heat capacity of the mech in MWO. However, now Clans will have higher heat dissipation with lower heat cap (meaning you can't alpha as reliably), while IS will have a slightly higher heat cap but lower heat dissipation. It is a notable change from how things currently are on live servers.

[Vashramire]

MovinTarget, on 14 November 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

Just pulled this from Sarna:

"There is a penalty in bulk, however. The Inner Sphere XL fusion engine is twice as large as the standard fusion engine, while the Clan model is about two-thirds larger. The larger volume of the engines makes them much more likely to end up in the path of penetrating hits. Further, these bulkier engines intrude into the side torso bays of a BattleMech, exposing the 'Mechs to catastrophic engine damage from structural damage that would be otherwise survivable."

So if I read that right, it sounds like neither should survive the loss of an entire ST + XL?

I mean "catastrophic engine damage" sounds like its pretty bad...

A mech can survive losing 2 engine crit slots. The reason isn't stated on that page but in the Light Engine page:

Designed to mimic the compact profile and light weight of Clan-tech XL Engines, the Light Fusion Engine weighs only 75% of a standard Fusion Engine. While not as dramatic as the 50% weight saving of an XL Engine, the real benefit of the Light Fusion Engine is that while it intrudes into the side torsos of a BattleMech, it takes up the same amount of space as a Clan extra-light engine, allowing a Light Fusion Engine equipped 'Mech to survive the destruction of a side-torso that would cripple an Inner Sphere XL engine equipped 'Mech.

As of now a clanner that loses their ST loses 20% heat dissipation from engine heat sinks, which after losing half your weapons isn't really as noticeable as one would think.

Edited by Vashramire, 16 November 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[Void Angel]

I know this is a minor gripe - but unless I missed something, why does PGI hate the Battlemaster 1G? Given its hardpoints and quirks, it's an excellent laser brawler with PPC and ballistic backup - except that it's got a tiny torso twist range compared to every other 'mech in its class. Now some 'mechs with larger ranges have been given bonuses, but the 1G still can't twist enough to take full advantage of its hardpoint potential.

Edited by Void Angel, 14 November 2015 - 04:03 PM.

[1453 R]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 November 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Your complaints about the complaining are incredibly misguided. People have been asking for very specific changes. Well-informed and experienced players have been asking for very specific changes. PGI made lots of changes, sure, but they were and are all dancing around what people have been asking for in some weird effort to avoid actually directly addressing the problems. That's what has people upset. And by this point, I shouldn't have to explain it to you (I know you keep in the loop), but I'd be happy to enumerate the complaints for you in a private message.

And, no, the weapon and 'Mech balance are not ready. I've played enough that I can tell you so just by looking at the numbers on the paper. As I said on Page 1, all any of this really does is move the collective together as one with very little adjustments to the disparities between any two 'Mechs or any two weapons.

By 'well-informed and specific changes', you mean the removal of any/all convergence system and a reset to a 30-point heat system, yes? Because as I recall those are the two that keep cropping up, like, twenty times a day.

Now, I am just a ****-tier nobody too clearly stupid to know his head from a halibut...but there's been a number of equally well-informed and experienced players who've argued that being able to hit what you shoot at, and also being able to fire a single medium laser once without incurring heat penalty rolls, are both things that should be possible in MWO. Perhaps that's one reason why Piranha has never investigated the wildly divergent cone of fire or the frustratingly restrictive heat scale system people keep demanding they do?

As I recall, Russ has mentioned that convergence is an incredibly tricky issue to tackle from a technical standpoint, and one which wouldn't necessarily lead to the perfect utopia of ten-minute TTK everyone keeps saying they want. It'd also be an utter nightmare to integrate into HSR, so what do you want - guns that hit their targets, or 'Mechs that never die? Pick one, because you don't get both.

As for the thirty-point heat scale, anyone with two neurons to rub together realizes that it's an idiotic idea. There needs to be at least some 'safe zone' in the heat bar to allow energy weapons (or multiple missile launchers, for that matter) to function. A 30-point scale where incurring 5 heat results in heat rolls means that you spawn on Terra Therma, then watch as two random people in the game suffer ammo cookoffs and die just for existing on Terra Therma.

As for things like ECM, quirks, or the other issues people've no doubt spent nine pages now kvetching over...ECM is likely part of the Infotech rework, the quirks have been ludicrously overdone since day 1, you people did just succeed in destroying Clan ER laser range (that is going to bite you people squarely in the posterior when the Sphere gets the rest of their ER weapons. Congratulations on it getting less than ten percent over nominal standard laser ranges, guys! Remember, you asked for it!), and SRMs are getting better.

Is it perfect? No. Do I think the game is going to wow people all over on Steam? No. But I am awfully sick of every single thing Piranha does earning them a hundred-page DungStorm of total morons with no concept of how game development works all screeching about how The End Is Nigh and if they don't fix the core issues already(!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!) they will get no more money ever and Why Do We Keep Letting These Evil E-Nazees Keep Ruining Our Franchise?

Chill the hell out, people. Play the game or don't. If you don't want to play it, then don't. I haven't been for a while, other things have taken up my interest. Come back when you want to, or don't. But please, don't subject everyone to your vitriol while you're at it. We don't need it, Piranha doesn't listen to it, it helps no one.