Mech efficiency drops seem a little heavy handed, perhaps splitting the difference would be a better test?
imho, the issue is PGI using the same percentage across the board that is not dependent on weight class, then using larger quirks to close the gap. Not saying that some of the fat needed to be cut but I believe those who have already elited their mechs will be in for a shock, especially as one goes up in weight class.
For those who are just starting with stock they will not have anything to compare it to, only what had previously been posted, then they will be posting, "what is the big deal about getting the next skill level, I am not seeing big difference...". Then our response will be, before Steamers joined up, PGI took a scalpel/machette (depending on your view) to the Skill tree before ya joined up
Well, ive been Clan Wolf ever since the clans came out, mainly because of the story line, the books ive read and the former mechwarrior games i played.... that said, again with all the nerfs for the clans... im switching to IS, im tired to swim against the current, the meta is IS for a long time.
Time to use those super meta stalkers and thunderbolts!
Commander A9, on 13 November 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:
Messing with Clan lasers in a bad way again...
And our ability to cool our mechs.
Thanks for once again nerfing mechs we paid real money for. :/
PGI bait-and-switch yet again. It's like buying a new Corvette because of it's performance, then GM says "You know, just for the hell of it, we're going to cut about 200hp from your engine. Thanks for your hard-earned money though, fool!"
I will never again buy another mech, or anything else, from PGI. I can't trust they won't just arbitrarily take away the reason for me spending my money in the first place. I'm tired of feeling like a sucker PGI. YOU HAVE LOST A PAYING CUSTOMER!!!
The mastery nerfs will noticeably hurt the maneuverability of heavy and assault mechs especially.
Whats funny is if they ninja nerfed them (left the display values the same) nobody would have noticed except for speed tweak.
But, since they told everyone its happening, everybody is going to blame everything that goes wrong in a match on "oh but I can't turn/acell as fast as I used to that's why I died". because that's what players do.
Who let Paul throw darts at the quirks board again?
PVP game. Balance changes are gona happen.
You using the "i paying money" as a shield for nerfs/buiffs makes you look like a complete fool.
look at alot of the Heromechs and see they got all some sort of BONUS quirk or more of something then the cbill
version on top in the PGI list
Another point is that most of these chassies have bigger engine mounts availabel or fantastic spread of hardpoints already
in comparison. Money apperently buys you advantage and this can bee seen pretty clearly.
Cmdr Hurrell, on 14 November 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:
I feel I need to put this in terms PGI will be compelled to listen:
YOU WILL LOSE MONEY
Axe the mech efficiency tree and you are basically taking away most of the incentive to grind 3 variants. Sure, the 10% speed increase is still there, but, why would I bother in the case of the faster mechs? I won't grind a chassis I don't like that much only for the speed buff. So, in that way, you have less people paying MC for extra variants, less people returning Cbills earned through grinding to buy extra variants, and less people actually playing those extra variants, which as you know translates in less opponents for the paying players. You know much more than me about the F2P model for sure, but this is a basic concept that nobody could deny.
Axing the efficiency tree is bad for you, bad for us. Please, do not do it.
No, no longer a 10% speed increase. "Speed Tweek" has been cut to 7.5%. Which drives you point even harder.
Anyone who agrees the rest of ECM changes from PTS 3 (besides the reduction of field to 90m) should have made it to PTS 4 and then go live, let's rally and try to make it happen. Play PTS4 and decide your stand.
Edited by Matthew Ace, 14 November 2015 - 07:00 PM.
By 'well-informed and specific changes', you mean the removal of any/all convergence system and a reset to a 30-point heat system, yes? Because as I recall those are the two that keep cropping up, like, twenty times a day.
Now, I am just a ****-tier nobody too clearly stupid to know his head from a halibut...but there's been a number of equally well-informed and experienced players who've argued that being able to hit what you shoot at, and also being able to fire a single medium laser once without incurring heat penalty rolls, are both things that should be possible in MWO. Perhaps that's one reason why Piranha has never investigated the wildly divergent cone of fire or the frustratingly restrictive heat scale system people keep demanding they do?
As I recall, Russ has mentioned that convergence is an incredibly tricky issue to tackle from a technical standpoint, and one which wouldn't necessarily lead to the perfect utopia of ten-minute TTK everyone keeps saying they want. It'd also be an utter nightmare to integrate into HSR, so what do you want - guns that hit their targets, or 'Mechs that never die? Pick one, because you don't get both.
You're either missing the good arguments or cherry picking the bad arguments.
Cone of fire is a dumb idea, yes.
Extreme range convergence is a good idea and would be ridiculously easy to implement because it would require no HSR coding. Your weapons will already converge at extreme ranges if you try to lead your target and HSR already handles it as well as HSR handles anything. If you're interested you can find you good threads on the topic.
1453 R, on 14 November 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:
As for the thirty-point heat scale, anyone with two neurons to rub together realizes that it's an idiotic idea. There needs to be at least some 'safe zone' in the heat bar to allow energy weapons (or multiple missile launchers, for that matter) to function. A 30-point scale where incurring 5 heat results in heat rolls means that you spawn on Terra Therma, then watch as two random people in the game suffer ammo cookoffs and die just for existing on Terra Therma.
You've misunderstood what people are suggesting.
The heat system people are suggesting has 4 gross elements. Let me give you the simplified example.
1 - Heat dissipation rate:
The rate at which you cool off. If this was expressed in the UI with a little bar it would shrink on Hot Maps and grow on cold maps. If you fire enough weapons to push your heat dissipation negative then your heat buffer, and eventually your overheat gague will fill. The dissipation rates in MWO are very poor, using TT h/s and less for non-engine double heat sinks. This is in a system where they've more than doubled rates of fire and increased weapon heat severely for some weapons.
2 - Heat buffer:
This is an abstraction BT didn't have. In the game MWO is based off of, all heat was delivered and dissipated in the same 10s time frames. The real time equivalent would be a PPC that generates 2 heat/second over a 5 second recycle after it's been fired. It makes sense in a real time game to have some buffer because it lets you set weapons up so that they deliver some or all of their heat instantly without tripping you over into overheat penalties. The main advantage of having a small heat buffer is that you can control how many weapons of what type can be fired at the same time by modifying how much of their heat is delivered instantly, during firing or during recycle. If people got 10 buffer for the built in heat-sinks and a little extra for each additional heat-sink that would probably be enough.
3 - Overheat
This is the 30 point overheat penalty scale from BT. It had things like movement penalties and accuracy penalties as well as pilot injury and ammo cook-offs at extreme overheat, yes. Having heat dissipation drop off as you overheat would also encourage people to chain fire more. Right now the heat system adds this 30 point overheat scale as penalty free buffer.
The huge artificial heat buffer, low dissipation and instant pinpoint precision are why people boat masses of similar weapons (lasers) alpha them, and then duck back behind cover to cool. Ghost Heat exists to 'fix' this, and it does so badly.
4 - Weapon heat delivery. This is just how much and how fast a weapon delivers heat. Right now we have weapons that don't deliver heat in an instantaneous spike. Lasers deliver heat over their firing cycle. A PPC is 10 heat right? What if you wanted to change the firing characteristics of that PPC so it only stresses your heat buffer as much as an AC/10? Simply change the PPC's heat delivery to 3 heat (instant) + 2.3 heat/sec (during recharge). Then firing a PPC spikes your heat no more than firing a single ac/10, the AC/10's heat is just going to dissipated out of your buffer faster.
If you have any questions or still need an example of how such a system works I'm sure I can dig out the ol' spreadsheet.
PGI bait-and-switch yet again. It's like buying a new Corvette because of it's performance, then GM says "You know, just for the hell of it, we're going to cut about 200hp from your engine. Thanks for your hard-earned money though, fool!"
I will never again buy another mech, or anything else, from PGI. I can't trust they won't just arbitrarily take away the reason for me spending my money in the first place. I'm tired of feeling like a sucker PGI. YOU HAVE LOST A PAYING CUSTOMER!!!
Again this story.
Can you please stop crying for a moment and point me where you see the (positive or negative) quirks in this page? https://mwomercs.com/wavethree
You bought a 'Mech pack. Not "the best 'Mechs on the market" (altought many have been for a long time, for no reason).
This is a PVP game. You're no hero. Other players are not here for you to stomp them, just because you paid for a 'Mech pack.
And no, the Corvette example is NOT correct.
But please, if you want to, go on crying.
Because I understand you: playing against challenging opponents is hard. And you cannot pause the game.
But if you really like this game, give the PTS a try. You'll still cannot pause it, but maybe...
There are some good values here, but there are also some pretty bad values here. I'm thinking that my notion that the folks at PGI are bad at math is still pretty concrete. This is disappointing.
Whats funny is if they ninja nerfed them (left the display values the same) nobody would have noticed except for speed tweak.
But, since they told everyone its happening, everybody is going to blame everything that goes wrong in a match on "oh but I can't turn/acell as fast as I used to that's why I died". because that's what players do.
Oh, you'd notice a 20-50% difference.
The efficiencies are pretty damn significant on the Live game.
I am happy to see that PGI is willing to implement change(finally), but it's in the wrong direction. True, fixing errors in the mech balance is a pressing issue, but it's not the issue that should be prioritized above others. The MWO universe is expanding, but only on the scale of mechs. The game needs new items, such as maps, game modes, weaponry, and PvE. Many players are getting bored and anxious because there is little content being added. Yes, new mechs are exciting and cool, but they're short term solutions. PGI has to look beyond fixing errors such as quirks(don't get me wrong, it still is an issue) and bringing more diverse content into the game.
LocationTVM-Iceless Fold Space Observatory Entertaining cats...
Posted 14 November 2015 - 09:55 PM
Tarl Cabot, on 14 November 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:
imho, the issue is PGI using the same percentage across the board that is not dependent on weight class, then using larger quirks to close the gap. Not saying that some of the fat needed to be cut but I believe those who have already elited their mechs will be in for a shock, especially as one goes up in weight class.
For those who are just starting with stock they will not have anything to compare it to, only what had previously been posted, then they will be posting, "what is the big deal about getting the next skill level, I am not seeing big difference...". Then our response will be, before Steamers joined up, PGI took a scalpel/machette (depending on your view) to the Skill tree before ya joined up
It will heavily reduce the want and will to invest the time/money/bays into mastery. As a mech mastery junkie this saddens me. The trend towards hyperbolic fixes feel like amputation at the neck is the answer for any splinter under the nail. Hopefully the test server results will temper the actual change to come.
I'm honestly surprised no one is freaking out yet that there is listed here a complete, absolute 30% LOSS to Heat Maximum that ALL Clan Mechs, of every Chassis, of every Variant. Across the board. That means you are now going to cook off all your ammo and explode in a fiery ball of death any time you previously heated your 'Mech to 75%.
How many of you hit 75% in a match? Now you're going to be dead.
All hail our IS lord and masters.
Where's that?
A 15DHS Clam mech with a 250+ engine currently has a 30+20+(5*1.4)=57 heat cap. 20% efficiency to 68.4
A 15DHS Clam mech with a 250+ engine on the PTS has a 30+20+5*(1.1)=55.5 heat cap. Such change, much difference. It seems the Heat Capacity effiecienct isn't changing either...how strange (PTS3 cut it down hard), so a 66.6 heat cap at 20%
A 15DHS Clam mech with a 250+ engine currently has a 30+20+(5*1.4)=57 heat cap. 20% efficiency to 68.4
A 15DHS Clam mech with a 250+ engine on the PTS has a 30+20+5*(1.1)=55.5 heat cap. Such change, much difference. It seems the Heat Capacity effiecienct isn't changing either...how strange (PTS3 cut it down hard), so a 66.6 heat cap at 20%
Wow...dat sub 3% chance in heat capacity.
Drunk math here, but if all 15 of those DHS are losing capacity why are you only multiplying by 5?
Edit: I'll delete previous post so as not to alarm people.
Edited by Blackhound, 14 November 2015 - 10:44 PM.
11
XphR, on 14 November 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:
