402 replies to this topic

[Scanz]

whinig of the Nerf OP guns and mechs, you can not pwnge any more - so stupid and childish

[Scanz]

Skill tree give you ******* HAWKEN like movement speed ! MWO - not quake and CS. Its a simulator of battlemech which slow battle machine of death!
Stop crying about that.
Skill tree does not mean anything - if you are a noob, movement speed doesnt help you.
btw its still 15% buff when you mastered mech. and some special mechs get quirks !

GTFO

[greedylamantin]

Isaac Davion, on 30 November 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

These nerfs are coinciding with generic buffs to the base mechs (primarily IS) in their various movement mechanics. No, not all mechs get them, and one could argue that not all of them need them. Clan mechs are already very good in these mechanics compared to their IS counterparts. For the sake of gameplay and balance, obviously lore has needed to take a back seat to playability or half the games content would be obsolete (read non-clan) and the time and investments made into those avenues would feel (and in effect be) wasted. How that ultimately is cleaned up and sealed with a bow is an exploration obviously needing more time.

I'm a legendary founder- I've put in countless hours into the game, and more money than I probably should have (though never a gold mech). I'm not tier 1, I'm not a god at pvp, and I'm only a passable tactician, but you know what? I don't need to have a significant skill tree advantage over newbies. I've already got custom mechs, cbills, modules, map understanding, mech understanding, mechanics understanding, and just good old fashioned piloting experience. THIS is my advantage. Any other bonuses from things like skill trees is just extra frosting on the cake.

They could burn the entire skill tree to the ground, and you know what? The game will still be playable, and you'd still be able to blow people up and be competitive and have fun. And what would it cost you? Wasted time playing mechs you didn't want to play for the sake of that mechanical advantage. That's it. The entire incentive for the argument against the skill tree nerfs is because players are upset that they've spent time skilling up mechs; and that time, effort, and reward is being temporarily marginalized. Not because of some holy crusade for the game's health or balance.

And I wager they do revamp the skill tree, so it doesn't stay marginalized for those of us who have put in the effort to skill up those variants we didn't like. Yes, it falls into the proverbial "soon" category- which may or may not be for a while. But for the sake of an impending steam launch, and the games overall health under current circumstances, the changes are better made now than left to poison new players.

Is everything perfect and polished? Gods no. But they've done PTS attempts, they've got steam coming online soon which is a ball not easily stopped from rolling, and they're obviously not sitting on the side lines leaving an imbalanced game to stay imbalanced. That shows, at the very least, investment in what they've built, and by that token, I think its not unreasonable to expect them to try to better the game more in the future.

Ok. I'd agree with that if i could take my c-bills and xp spent on some mechs back. And my time. Maybe that's all about 30-40 hours but that's my time.

[Weeny Machine]

The Huginn stays like on the PTS? Wow, that mech has such a low DPS that you can press the fire button continously on Tourmaline Desert and it doesn't even get hot.

No one will touch it again.

Remind me, why do we even go to the PTS and test things?

Edited by Bush Hopper, 30 November 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Scanz]

Bush Hopper, on 30 November 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

The Huginn stays like on the PTS? Wow, that mech has such a low DPS that you can press the fire button continously on Tourmaline Desert and it doesn't even get hot.

No one will touch it again.

Remind me, why do we even go to the PTS and test things?

why small light must be overpowered heavy ?? like cheetah ;(

[IronEricP]

Bush Hopper, on 30 November 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

The Huginn stays like on the PTS? Wow, that mech has such a low DPS that you can press the fire button continously on Tourmaline Desert and it doesn't even get hot.

Considering I've seen many Huginn's that wreak face in Live servers, and SRM's are getting buffs, it makes sense that it would be getting less personal buffs for its weapons right now. It should also be noted that it is getting several durability quirks that it didn't have before and improvements to those it did. Further, even after the weapon quirk 'reductions' (it did get a little more range) it still has some of the best missile quirks among lights.

Should also note that it is HPS that determines if it gets hot . DPS might not be the tops, but sustained DPS due to controlled HPS is still one of the Huginn's main advantages over pulse lights (which got a few nerfs via heat and weapon changes).

Now, based on your post, you may have MEANT HPS was low, which will stay true. Will still have reduced DPS from live though.

Edited by Eric Portenelli, 30 November 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Eric Portenelli, on 30 November 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

Considering I've seen many Huginn's that wreak face in Live servers, and SRM's are getting buffs, it makes sense that it would be getting less personal buffs for its weapons right now. It should also be noted that it is getting several durability quirks that it didn't have before and improvements to those it did. Further, even after the weapon quirk 'reductions' (it did get a little more range) it still has some of the best missile quirks among lights.

Should also note that it is HPS that determines if it gets hot . DPS might not be the tops, but sustained DPS due to controlled HPS is still one of the Huginn's main advantages over pulse lights (which got a few nerfs via heat and weapon changes).

Now, based on your post, you may have MEANT HPS was low, which will stay true. Will still have reduced DPS from live though.

Sure, it needed a downgrade of the quirks considering the SRM changes.
However, if you equip now 2 SRM4+A on the PTS you get ridiculous low dps. Currenly, on the live server a Huginn has no big alpha, but it has very good dps for brawling. It was risk vs reward. You had to get close and was (mostly) rewarded.

On the PTS you have neither a big alpha nor any noteworthy dps. I did several matches on the PTS. One was especially flabbergasting. I was more or less ignored by the enemy team and basically pressed the fire button all the time. I ended the match with 170 damage done.

And as I said above: the fire rate is so low that you can press the fire button continously on Tourmaline Desert and never ever overheat.

What role does this mech play now? It has no big alpha nor can you make a build with one. Its DPs is far too low to go brawling with it. You cannot snipe, you cannot harass, you cannot brawl in any meaningful way.

Some structure quirks won't help him to wear anything down because of said low dps. In addition you have to consider that it is now even easier to target because of the speed reduction which hits light mechs harder than the rest.

Scanz, on 30 November 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

why small light must be overpowered heavy ?? like cheetah ;(

Yup, because a Huginn was like a cheetah.

Oh speaking of, I will for sure put my Huginn aside and play my Cheetah more. Diversity for the arse.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 30 November 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[Argent Kaiser]

Ok so now mech effeciencies are mostly meaningless. There are a lot of mechs that will become near unplayable now. Assaults are going to be lumbering almost immobile targets for lights once again.

'Mech Efficiencies
• Kinetic Burst: 22.5% -> 7.5%
• Twist X: 10% -> 2.5%
• Hard Brake: 25% -> 7.5%
• Twist Speed: 20% -> 2.5%
• Arm Reflex: 15% -> 2.5%
• Anchor Turn: 10% -> 2.5%
• Speed Tweak: 10% -> 7.5%

Someone on the design team as an unatural love for decimals.

[Adette]

Argent Kaiser, on 30 November 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Ok so now mech effeciencies are mostly meaningless. There are a lot of mechs that will become near unplayable now. Assaults are going to be lumbering almost immobile targets for lights once again.

'Mech Efficiencies
• Kinetic Burst: 22.5% -> 7.5%
• Twist X: 10% -> 2.5%
• Hard Brake: 25% -> 7.5%
• Twist Speed: 20% -> 2.5%
• Arm Reflex: 15% -> 2.5%
• Anchor Turn: 10% -> 2.5%
• Speed Tweak: 10% -> 7.5%

Someone on the design team as an unatural love for decimals.

They did it that way so that double efficiencies will be 15% accel/decel and 5% everything else (speedtweak obviously stays 7.5%)

[A Villain Behind Glasses]

Whatever happens with the pilot skill tree, I hope that the TORSO TWIST SPEED of fully mastered 'mechs in the game is not reduced.

I say this as someone who fell in love with MWO after discovering light 'mechs (I started with a Raven, then moved onto Jenners, Locusts, now the Arctic Cheetah etc etc etc):

If the torso twist speed of assault and heavy 'mechs in MWO is reduced, I can guarantee you that I will suddenly start doing a whole lot better with my favourite light 'mechs.

For example, currently whenever I meet an isolated enemy Dire Wolf or King Crab in a match, and I am piloting my Locust, I am 80% confident that I can solo kill it, even if it's fresh. Some pilots of sluggish assault 'mechs really know their stuff and can save themeselves from being solo killed by something like a Locust, but many cannot because it is an awfully difficult situation to be in.

If the torso twist speed of the bigger 'mechs in the game is reduced, there is a danger that such targets will become almost defenceless against light 'mech pilots such as myself.

I hope that the torso twist speed of fully mastered 'mechs in MWO remains as it is, because even though light 'mech pilots such as myself would find out-manoeuvring and killing our prey far easier, I believe it would be less fun for everyone. Pilots of less agile 'mechs would lose a lot of their ability to defend themselves, and light 'mech pilots such as myself would face a much less exciting, adrenaline fuelled experience when hunting larger 'mechs.

In summary, I want it to remain difficult and risky to kill an Atlas with a Locust. I want to feel I have earned the title of Lucust Ninja, not had it simply handed to me since the Atlas in question never had a chance to bring its guns to bear. I sincerely hope that the torso twist speed of mastered 'mechs in MWO is not reduced.

Edited by Aki Shin III, 30 November 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[Pihoqahiak]

Scanz, on 30 November 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

whinig of the Nerf OP guns and mechs, you can not pwnge any more - so stupid and childish

Any good players in the game that dominate now, will dominate even more after the proposed changes, since they tend to know the concepts of the best use of the available game mechanics, tactics and strategies. They will just do it with whatever the most efficient and capable mech builds that end up resulting from the changes.

Edited by Pihoqahiak, 30 November 2015 - 04:19 PM.

[Pihoqahiak]

Scanz, on 30 November 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

Skill tree give you ******* HAWKEN like movement speed ! MWO - not quake and CS. Its a simulator of battlemech which slow battle machine of death! Stop crying about that. Skill tree does not mean anything - if you are a noob, movement speed doesnt help you. btw its still 15% buff when you mastered mech. and some special mechs get quirks ! GTFO

No, MW:O doesn't play like Hawken at all, max agility skills or not, not even close. Battlemechs are really NOT slow moving machines of death in Battletech with very few exceptions (Dire Wolf, Urbanmech, etc. and those ARE very slow in MW:O). Battlemechs are as fast, or faster, more agile, and more durable than heavy armored ground vehicles in Battletech, that's the whole point of them. Also, it is not, and has never been a 15% buff to speed, purchasing all the Elite skills only doubles the value of the basic skills.

[Eregion]

A sebaceous cyst, on 30 November 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Honestly I don't care how long people have been here, if they have played thousands more games than the thousands I have played, or spent hundreds more than the hundreds I have spent on this game (ok I haven't spent that much on this account, but I have on other accounts), everyone's opinion is relevant even if it is contrary to yours, mine or PGI's.

You are so wrong.
Not everybody's opinion is worth the same. If you think something like this you are not considering reality, where somebody could understand things better then "the majority" (I'm considering "studying a case" as more understanding, while one may still be wrong).
And it's not only a metter of time spent gaiming. I have been endless hours in the shower in my whole life, but it doesn't make me a hydraulic engineer...

Still "the majority" is voicing. In this thread there's not even a majority, just a bunch of people crying, not discussing. Want a proof?

A sebaceous cyst, on 30 November 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

I think you have confused "I want an advantage over a new player" with "making ALL mechs slower, less maneuverable, less able able to dissipate heat, unable to stop as fast, unable to accelerate as fast, less able to torso twist and slower to torso twist".

You are wrong. You are talking while not even understandig the basic changes.
Should I care what you say?

And you are not alone...

The same goes to those crying for the cDHS, where it looks like almost nobody understood anything. Sure, it's a convoluted matter, but I think one should at least try to understand the basics.


Still, you are right on something, in some ways. They could have redone the skill tree differently. But keep in mind that making a different skill tree, where you choose to specialize your 'Mech in something, can easily lead to OP combinations, where those who have spent hundreds of hours in a 'Mech (or many 'Mechs) have "OP advantage" over all those that say that "it doesn't metter how much you have played to have an opinion".

So, instead of a rushed flat skill tree, where my piloting ability and experience is proven against others, you are asking for a MMORPG skill tree where the more you play the more you are able to crush the enemy, simply because you have played more... see the contradiction?

I personally don't think PGI has enough skilled people in this field to come up with a "balanced" alternative skill tree, not in just a couple of years. We'll see.

For now, a flat skill tree is better than a rushed MMORPG skill tree. The day we'll see the latter will be a sad day for the MechWarrior franchise.

Edited by Eregion, 01 December 2015 - 06:46 AM.

[Battle4rage]

The mech efficiency nerf is going to destroy light mech play. After playing several, they are slightly slower and vastly less agile. This makes them much easier targets. Lights were already underrepresented, now they will disappear. Not happy with this change.

[A sebaceous cyst]

Eregion, on 01 December 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

You are so wrong.
Not everybody's opinion is worth the same. If you think something like this you are not considering reality, where somebody could understand things better then "the majority" (I'm considering "studying a case" as more understanding, while one may still be wrong).
And it's not only a metter of time spent gaiming. I have been endless hours in the shower in my whole life, but it doesn't make me a hydraulic engineer...

Still "the majority" is voicing. In this thread there's not even a majority, just a bunch of people crying, not discussing. Want a proof?



You are wrong. You are talking while not even understandig the basic changes.
Should I care what you say?

And you are not alone...

The same goes to those crying for the cDHS, where it looks like almost nobody understood anything. Sure, it's a convoluted matter, but I think one should at least try to understand the basics.


Still, you are right on something, in some ways. They could have redone the skill tree differently. But keep in mind that making a different skill tree, where you choose to specialize your 'Mech in something, can easily lead to OP combinations, where those who have spent hundreds of hours in a 'Mech (or many 'Mechs) have "OP advantage" over all those that say that "it doesn't metter how much you have played to have an opinion".

So, instead of a rushed flat skill tree, where my piloting ability and experience is proven against others, you are asking for a MMORPG skill tree where the more you play the more you are able to crush the enemy, simply because you have played more... see the contradiction?

I personally don't think PGI has enough skilled people in this field to come up with a "balanced" alternative skill tree, not in just a couple of years. We'll see.

For now, a flat skill tree is better than a rushed MMORPG skill tree. The day we'll see the latter will be a sad day for the MechWarrior franchise.

Lol, talk about contradicting your whole argument...as you said 'just because you spent a lot of time in the shower it doesn't make you a hydraulic engineer' and since I don't see any PGI tags associated with your name there is absolutely no reason for anyone else to think you have a greater insight or understanding of this game than anyone else. the only "crying" being done on this post are by folks like you who think everyone who doesn't share your viewpoint are "wrong" or don't understand this game "as good" as you do. Even your "understanding" of what you think I have asked for is a huge (and incorrect) assumption on your part...did I say I want something to "crush the enemy the more I play"? Where did I use those words? What I did say was that the skill tree should be reworked rather than just have the current tree's percentages cut and another false assumption you have made is that I am asking for anything to be rushed out now when I actually said the opposite, that simply cutting skill tree percentages now feels like a rushed decision (likely to meet the steam launch target) and it would be better to leave the skill tree as it is until it can be properly reworked from the ground up. Just out of curiosity, what evidence do you have that cutting all the skill tree percentages actually "improves" gameplay and is better than reworking the skilltree from the ground up?
One last thing, you asked a very good question "should I care what you say?"...Honestly, I wasn't writing to you personally and I am sorry you felt that I was for some reason, but maybe you should ask yourself the same question (preferably before posting a reply where you once again "cry" that I am wrong because my opinion is different than yours)

[mad kat]

Argh one step forward two steps back. The SRM buff was so appealing back to my old favourite weapon i thought......Nope hit reg is still bollocks my WVR 7K was launching volley after volley last night and while significantly easier to aim and hit it couldn't kill squat!

[SkippyT72]

Scanz, on 30 November 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

Skill tree give you ******* HAWKEN like movement speed ! MWO - not quake and CS. Its a simulator of battlemech which slow battle machine of death!
Stop crying about that.
Skill tree does not mean anything - if you are a noob, movement speed doesnt help you.
btw its still 15% buff when you mastered mech. and some special mechs get quirks !

GTFO

Only IS mechs got movement quirks along with just about ALL of them getting structure quirks, all the clan mechs lost any quirks of that nature if they had them to begin with.

[SkippyT72]

Pihoqahiak, on 30 November 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Any good players in the game that dominate now, will dominate even more after the proposed changes, since they tend to know the concepts of the best use of the available game mechanics, tactics and strategies. They will just do it with whatever the most efficient and capable mech builds that end up resulting from the changes.

So right and whatever the new mechs/weapons of choice of the good players is the next list for the whines to scream about till they get the "Nerf Hammer" in a up comming patch soon.

[Racersky]

• 
  [color=#222222]Look, no sense in crying/whining/whatever. PGI will nerf or quirk a mech. Trust me, this is not the first time nor will it be the last time. I have somewhere just shy of 200 mechs...yeah I know, 1 too much? About 90% of those mechs are "INVALID" LOL! Really, that is what is labeled on those mechs. They are stripped. When PGI nerfs/quirks a mech, I just go and stripped the nerf mech down and rearm the quirked OP mechs! LOL!! It is really 2 easy. There is no content, all we get to do is just kill or be killed. Therefore, you can either cry about it and go stomp a mech, OR cry about it and GET stomped. OR have fun and go stomp mechs LOL!! Either way, just wait till the next quirk/nerf. But for me, ima just gonna go stripped the nerf mechs, and armed the quirked OP mechs, and stompy stomp! I mean, since there is no content to the game...I mean, like MWO is NOT Battletech. You know, like we all know that Clan mechs are suppose to be better…yes it is true, but not in MWO! LOL! Please do not confuse MWO with Battletech, battlemech, areotech, mechwarrior, or ANY other game that has to do with actual MECHS. MWO (PGI) do not have adhere to those rules, balances, game play, game style, environment, universe etc. Nor does PGI have the manpower, time or finances to provide the content. Right now MWO concept is to sell new mechs every week or two, colors, every week or two, whatever they can sell to generate a cash flow , to PAY and KEEP current employees for what we have currently! . I have made enough donations to realize the future of MWO…buy a new mech once a month, and some crayons, (you know colors to color my mechs that are invalid, lol) Just wait till the next quirk/nerfs! The game for the majority of the players that cry/whine/buy (indifference to actual lore, mechanics, etc.) MWO/PGI have to make money, business is business. Listen you have a few maps to play on, so what if you cannot choose what mode/map you have unless you have plus 12x or something? (yeah, it was sweet when we got to actually play what mode we wanted to or NOT to play…but hey, we either didn’t donate enough, or we have no say so in MWO. Big deal, you still get to stomp mechs. It is not like you have a choice of not stomping a mech on any map or mode? Look don’t worry about these quirks and nerfs, just go stomp some mechs. Besides, with the Battle Turkayyid 2 this weekend, at least the IS mech now have firepower to… u guess it, stomp some nerf clan mechs! And there is a sell going on! Buy crayons (to color mecs with). Look ladies and gents, enough crying/whining/whatever let us get to the stompy stomp mechs that have been nerfdom with some awesome quirkdoms![/color]

[I Peed My Pants]

looks good in general, the global heat nerf will hopefully increase the TTK.

not so sure bout the GI nerf, its cool-down is now effectively double what it used to be!
Similar with the raven, would have been nice to see a 30-40% overall cooldown for srm4 or just for srm in general... i fear it'll have lost most its potency.
great to see the FB get some love though

oh, and what about the Arrow? its still crap... all other BJ's are still far superior...

edit
skill tree stuff looks alright, though i'd like to see more tiers, and perhaps no cap, but an exponentially rising cost/ROI? shouldn't be too hard to design it such that the max (for example) speed tweak is still about 10%, with 5% being available for about 5k, and 9% taking maybe 200+k? or some other use for excess XP other than converting to GXP...

Edited by I Peed My Pants, 02 December 2015 - 09:09 PM.