192 replies to this topic

[iLLcapitan]

Kjudoon, on 07 December 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Really.

Just wow.

Evolution is not everybody's cup of tea, I get it.

[PFC Carsten]

iLLcapitan, on 07 December 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

Evolution is not everybody's cup of tea, I get it.

Realize though, that evolution works as a process of adaption. From a stomp you do not learn much, because there's a thousand things your team did wrong and the average person is just frustrated, not even going into analysis mode, because in a stomp it's usually not a question of "what did we/I do wrong" and "where could we/I have made a significant difference".

What you DO learn from as a normal person is a close match where any other action you took actually WOULD have mattered.

[iLLcapitan]

PFC Carsten, on 07 December 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Realize though, that evolution works as a process of adaption. From a stomp you do not learn much, because there's a thousand things your team did wrong and the average person is just frustrated, not even going into analysis mode, because in a stomp it's usually not a question of "what did we/I do wrong" and "where could we/I have made a significant difference".

What you DO learn from as a normal person is a close match where any other action you took actually WOULD have mattered.

If one already tries to improve in CW, there is more to learn from a stomp than from a close match. That's at least how I see it. Of course you're right too, frustation denies reflection in a way. But I'm totally against "soften" the gamemode up, to improve experience for some. I don't need another singlequeue, just on different maps.

Sure thing I support getting more people in CW - but I believe this can be done by better introductions, explanations or even a mandatory tutorial.

Why so many people don't accept the challenge? It really freaked me out, doing like 500 dmg at the beginning, so I set my goal to doing 1k damage. Oh boy I was so eager to finally get a mastered dropdeck together. Then clad them all in Wolf camo, because finally I got a BT feeling in this game. Even if the current CW is meaningless (beta and stuff), it had more meaning (to me) than 100 drops in the singlequeue (I name it solaris mode in my head - to motivate me at least sometimes for it). Next goal was 2k damage and so on.

[Bashfulsalamander]

PFC Carsten, on 07 December 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Realize though, that evolution works as a process of adaption. From a stomp you do not learn much, because there's a thousand things your team did wrong and the average person is just frustrated, not even going into analysis mode, because in a stomp it's usually not a question of "what did we/I do wrong" and "where could we/I have made a significant difference".

What you DO learn from as a normal person is a close match where any other action you took actually WOULD have mattered.

You say evolution is a process of adaption, but a lot of people on this topic want the game to adapt around the players rather then the players adapting around the game. That is basically like saying I don't want to think how to improve myself, but PGI should just base the game on my own playstyle. In a stomp you learn the difference between coordination and solo play habits. you may even learn a few builds for some IS, or Clan mechs. Believe me a lot of good units swap between the two and not all units are jerks. Some would like for the average pug to get better at the game and put up a better fight. Play long enough and you can even learn to build mechs that are adaptive to any strat.. maybe except long range sniping. Every game should be a learning experience even if its the same exact lesson time after time.

[Kjudoon]

iLLcapitan, on 07 December 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

Evolution is not everybody's cup of tea, I get it.

Nor is ethics I see.

[Jman5]

PFC Carsten, on 07 December 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

From a stomp you do not learn much, because there's a thousand things your team did wrong and the average person is just frustrated, not even going into analysis mode, because in a stomp it's usually not a question of "what did we/I do wrong" and "where could we/I have made a significant difference".

What you DO learn from as a normal person is a close match where any other action you took actually WOULD have mattered.

It's not a question of figuring out everything you and your team did wrong to lose. It's about picking one or two things you could have done better and iterating next time. I get a lot of positioning ideas when I get stomped. Did I get any good trades from here, did I get myself isolated, was I able to reposition myself? If I got run over from where I was and wasn't able to do anything useful, I can either check that spot off, or tell myself I need to hike it out of there much faster. Just because there was 1000 other things that went wrong doesn't mean I can't pick up on problems.

Edited by Jman5, 07 December 2015 - 09:52 AM.

[Mikhail Kaloyanov]

For me it's just a chill vs time thing. I don't have time to look for a decent premade 12 man drop nor do I have time to play and consistently lose in IS pug drops. I drop solo more than in a team. Simply put I can roll out more chills per hour doing pug solo than pug CW. Wish it weren't that way but it is what it is.

[Trev Firestorm]

Jun Watarase, on 23 November 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

Victim blaming is well and alive i see.

>why were you out alone late at night?
>you knew it was potentially dangerous didn't you?
>but you DELIBERATELY chose to put yourself in that position of danger!
>in other words...you were asking for it weren't you?

Apples and oranges.

Edit: and more pages in the thread than I realized, sorry.

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 07 December 2015 - 11:13 AM.

[pwnface]

Mikhail Kaloyanov, on 07 December 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

For me it's just a chill vs time thing. I don't have time to look for a decent premade 12 man drop nor do I have time to play and consistently lose in IS pug drops. I drop solo more than in a team. Simply put I can roll out more chills per hour doing pug solo than pug CW. Wish it weren't that way but it is what it is.

You should spend the 30 seconds it takes to jump into your faction teamspeak and see if there are people playing CW. Then spend another additional 30 seconds to see if they have spots available. If both of these conditions are false, proceed with your normal solo drops. If a spot is available, you can jump in and play CW with a group that actually wants to win. It doesn't take a lot of time to find a group in a faction hub, you can also do solo drops as you wait for a spot to open up if you wanted to. I've drop called for Kurita pick up groups quite a bit, you can have tremendous success without synchronizing drop decks or builds just by getting everyone to go to the same place and shoot at the same guy. A typical PUG team is at a huge disadvantage against a faction pick up group with a decent drop caller.

[Sandpit]

At least I don't see much of the premade boogeyman anymore. It really seems like the game and community are shifting towards that "thinking man's" shooter that was discussed so many years ago and that's a great thing in my opinion. Everyone clamors on about new players not liking it.

Uhm.... most new players read the description of a game before they play. Most new players will jump in and quickly understand this isn't CoD in robots. WoT players will enjoy it immensely. It's faster paced and F2P, not P2W and the grind here is nonexistent compared to WoT.

New players coming in from strategy and wargames are going to love it. Sim fans for piloting are going to love it if they don't expect the same performance as a dedicated flight sim and such.

The ones using the V cards quite simply just don't like the game for what it is in most cases. They thought they would, but they don't. They aren't very good at it, they don't grasp a lot of the fundamentals, and they look for any and every reason they can to explain that away that doesn't involve looking at their own play styles and bad habits.

I literally saw a player today specifically state "I'm a skilled player and I'm tier 5" and I just flat out called BS. A lot of people have found out they just aren't as "elite" as they thought they were. It's funny watching it though and thankfully PGI has stopped catering exclusively to that portion of the audience and we're getting modes and options for a more strategic game.

[Sandpit]

pwnface, on 07 December 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

You should spend the 30 seconds it takes to jump into your faction teamspeak and see if there are people playing CW. Then spend another additional 30 seconds to see if they have spots available. If both of these conditions are false, proceed with your normal solo drops. If a spot is available, you can jump in and play CW with a group that actually wants to win. It doesn't take a lot of time to find a group in a faction hub, you can also do solo drops as you wait for a spot to open up if you wanted to. I've drop called for Kurita pick up groups quite a bit, you can have tremendous success without synchronizing drop decks or builds just by getting everyone to go to the same place and shoot at the same guy. A typical PUG team is at a huge disadvantage against a faction pick up group with a decent drop caller.

This right here.
We have our dedicated shot callers and map navigators. We dont' sync up decks, we don't meta build, but we make sure that when we get in lobby comms clear and it's Battle Comms.

From that point on it's the drop caller's job to ensure the "herd" goes where it needs to, focuses primary targets, keeps track of enemy locations and cycles targets to call out hit locations on enemy targets. That's what a "unit commander" really does.
If we're in a smaller group and we have lots of solos or other PUG groups, we designate one person to relay information either using in-game VOIP and/or typing to let everyone know what's going on.

This is the difference between a PUG that just simply uses teamwork and coordination as opposed to a PUG that thinks they're going to play it like they do the pub drops.

[AlmightyAeng]

Sandpit, on 07 December 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

"War never changes; Bad's gonna bad. The game isn't as CoD as it used to be; Sweet."

FTFY. And yeah. Sand is on the money.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Triordinant, on 25 November 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

It's been almost a year now so it should be clear that CW ought to be a separate "cage" where premade comp units can have a "cage match" against each other. Everyone else should stay out and let them have it. Otherwise you're just providing them with an opportunity to farm. Wise up people.

I think I am going to have to make use of this analogy when responding to people who are complaining about CW...
Community Warfare is where the comp units go to throw down...if you are unwilling or unable to step up to that level then don't step into the cage.

[Sandpit]

Ghost Badger, on 07 December 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

FTFY. And yeah. Sand is on the money.

[Vellron2005]

Bashfulsalamander, on 23 November 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Ok, so it does not take long to see a forum post that says CW is unbalanced due to PUGs VS. premades. Its rather sad really.... It may be hard for a few people to read the gameplay tips at the start of a match, but it does say to make friends and form groups. Team work= Victory! right? That does not mean you have to join a Unit.. it just means make friends, which I am sure most people are aware that the best way to do that is by talking. PGI has given the player many ways of talking ie: Text, VOIP, and even battle grid commands.

Now before any one starts claiming I am just your typical "units are not to blame premade only player". I pug quite often in CW.. and my VOIP does not work for some weird reason... I am too lazy to try and figure it out, even though it does work on TS. I have seen a PUG team beat a premade team.. one that even tried to camp in their spawn zone... You know who you are... Davion scum and maybe even a certain FRR group of players.... I have also been on the receiving end of pug stomps from some well populated merc units and Steiner loyalists. Does this make me mad? No.. its to be expected when a team works together and has decent skill as a bonus. ( unless they use an exploit... then it does.)

What does make me mad though is when I am playing with my fellow unit members, or even just pugging and people start whining about every little thing being OP, bugged, or PGI not banning cheaters.... I even see this on rare occasion in faction chat as to why people avoid some planets because they believe a premade is cheating.... Hate to rain on the PUG parade, but its not uncommon for games to be 48 to ~10. That's just simply the difference between players working together and players looking out for only themselves, If a clan pug force fights an IS pug force... then the clans only won because they are OP. If a pug force of IS beats A clan pug force then I.S. is over quirked. Those are but a few examples of a list that would be way to long to type that I get sick of reading.

So quit whining and quit claiming to be the victims of "seal clubbing" when you choose the outcome. You ignore the gameplay tips, you ignore the VOIP, you ignore the fact that team work is better then you. CW is not even in its final form yet.. not that I see much changing, but I am sure with some of the new features coming out soon it will be more fun. and guess what? the better TEAM will win..... as usual. whether it be a 4man of pugs, or 4 man of premades that have no skill losing to a 4 man of voip using tightly bundled pugs.

Man's got a fully fledged, baustardo of a good point...

+1.

Edited by Vellron2005, 08 December 2015 - 03:10 AM.

[demoyn]

Sandpit, on 07 December 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

I literally saw a player today specifically state "I'm a skilled player and I'm tier 5" and I just flat out called BS. A lot of people have found out they just aren't as "elite" as they thought they were. It's funny watching it though and thankfully PGI has stopped catering exclusively to that portion of the audience and we're getting modes and options for a more strategic game.

This is not necessarily true. Take me, for instance.

I was one of the best players in the game when it first came out. My archived KDR is 3.96. I left for a year, though, and when I came back everyone had better mechs and much more powerful modules than when I left. My play, while obviously rusty, was still pretty good, but my stats weren't up to par because I died more often and got less kills.

It just so happens that I built back up right before the tiers were implemented. I was placed in tier 4, but have lost points a total of four times in about 100 games. If you look at my stats it says I'm about a 1.05 KDR right now, but since getting xp and modules on better mechs I'm really at about a 5 or 6 KDR.

TL:DR- Tier is a decent indicator of skill, but it's not flawless yet (and that climb takes FOREVER).

[Sandpit]

demoyn, on 08 December 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

This is not necessarily true. Take me, for instance.

I was one of the best players in the game when it first came out. My archived KDR is 3.96. I left for a year, though, and when I came back everyone had better mechs and much more powerful modules than when I left. My play, while obviously rusty, was still pretty good, but my stats weren't up to par because I died more often and got less kills.

It just so happens that I built back up right before the tiers were implemented. I was placed in tier 4, but have lost points a total of four times in about 100 games. If you look at my stats it says I'm about a 1.05 KDR right now, but since getting xp and modules on better mechs I'm really at about a 5 or 6 KDR.

TL:DR- Tier is a decent indicator of skill, but it's not flawless yet (and that climb takes FOREVER).

That's not an excuse to me.
I went away for a year, picked right back up where I left off a couple of weeks ago. It took me about a day or two to adjust to the new mechanics and such, after that, business as usual and I quickly climbed to about 25% through Tier 3 within a week.

I'm simply pointing out that saying "I'm a great pilot but I'm tier 5" pretty much tells everyone else everything they need to know about that particular player in terms of skill and attitude to the game most times

[demoyn]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

That's not an excuse to me.
I went away for a year, picked right back up where I left off a couple of weeks ago. It took me about a day or two to adjust to the new mechanics and such, after that, business as usual and I quickly climbed to about 25% through Tier 3 within a week.

I'm simply pointing out that saying "I'm a great pilot but I'm tier 5" pretty much tells everyone else everything they need to know about that particular player in terms of skill and attitude to the game most times

It's not just adjusting to the new mechs. This weekend I averaged about 350 points per CW match. I switched to a friend's account who literally started a week ago (so... mostly trial mechs) and only averaged 150 points per match. My skill level didn't change over the course of an hour. Owning the right mechs and modules makes a huge difference in results, but zero difference in skill.

I've also grinded my way through most of tier four over the past two weeks. Like I inferred before, eventually the tiers will level out properly, but it's too early to learn much from them other than everyone in tier 1 and 2 have been playing for a long time.

[Zibmo]

vandalhooch, on 28 November 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

No it can't. The matchmaker has no access to my team's Teamspeak server. It literally can not tell the difference between twelve random players from twelve players who have removed their unit tags but are still working together.

Split queues destroy the need for any sort fluff designed to promote community gaming. You simply don't want to be part of the community. Fine. But why do you want to remove that piece of the game for everyone else?



Please don't try to drag any science into this. You sound even dumber than before. Lone neutrons decay in the tiniest fraction of a second outside of a nucleus. Absolutely no neutron would ever make it "cross the alps under the earth" (sic). Neutrinos on the other hand . . .



Nope. We'd synch drop in defense of our faction's planet or in order to take your faction's planet.



And yet, hundreds of people keep playing everyday despite there being very little in-game reward for doing so. Imagine the tears you'll be shedding if/when PGI implement a more lucrative attractant in their FACTION vs. FACTION mode.

Wow. So many straw men, so little ... willingness.

How does separating queues prevent you from enjoying your "community" based game? Particularly if there's a PUG opt-in to be clubbed to death?

I have read a great many of your posts. They almost always boil down to "build a strawman then burn it down." At no point did anyone say you can't have a premade. All they are saying is they don't want to compete with them.

Following close on those heels come the "we hate seal-clubbing - just ask us" posts and then your post tries for the denouement with yet another group of close-but-no-cigar statements. And the "nope, we'd just sync-drop" statement is probably the most true statement you have made. Because your "community based game" is largely based on clubbing seals.

[Sandpit]

demoyn, on 08 December 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

It's not just adjusting to the new mechs. This weekend I averaged about 350 points per CW match. I switched to a friend's account who literally started a week ago (so... mostly trial mechs) and only averaged 150 points per match. My skill level didn't change over the course of an hour. Owning the right mechs and modules makes a huge difference in results, but zero difference in skill.

I've also grinded my way through most of tier four over the past two weeks. Like I inferred before, eventually the tiers will level out properly, but it's too early to learn much from them other than everyone in tier 1 and 2 have been playing for a long time.

I haven't switched up any of my builds in any major ways at all since returning. I imagine those that had the longest adjustment periods would be the min/max crowd as all the meta builds have changed significantly

Zibmo, on 08 December 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

Wow. So many straw men, so little ... willingness.

How does separating queues prevent you from enjoying your "community" based game? Particularly if there's a PUG opt-in to be clubbed to death?

I have read a great many of your posts. They almost always boil down to "build a strawman then burn it down." At no point did anyone say you can't have a premade. All they are saying is they don't want to compete with them.

Following close on those heels come the "we hate seal-clubbing - just ask us" posts and then your post tries for the denouement with yet another group of close-but-no-cigar statements. And the "nope, we'd just sync-drop" statement is probably the most true statement you have made. Because your "community based game" is largely based on clubbing seals.

those people need to get over themselves. Stop acting like some sort of victim. There's a perfectly good solo queue that caters exclusively to them
period
end of story
play there