192 replies to this topic

[Astrocanis]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

I haven't switched up any of my builds in any major ways at all since returning. I imagine those that had the longest adjustment periods would be the min/max crowd as all the meta builds have changed significantly


those people need to get over themselves. Stop acting like some sort of victim. There's a perfectly good solo queue that caters exclusively to them
period
end of story
play there

I wasn't actually claiming victim status. I simply don't understand how so many people (I'm assuming you?) can simply be satisfied with a very large section of the game that is practically off limits - either because it's not fun (except for those like yourself - and me, as it turns out <chagrin>) or because of the exclusionary nature of the people who enjoy it the way it is.

Talk about fear of change.

As I said in another thread - I respect you but I rarely agree with you. This is one of those times that we disagree. I don't think "you can have fun any way you want to as long as it's the way I want you to" is a very good game design paradigm. Nor is "tough ****, it is what it is." Not as long as it's as mutable as software and an online game can be. I think you might want to remember your stance on this when your sacred truths are no longer.

Edited by Astrocanis, 08 December 2015 - 06:10 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Astro... Dont bother.  If you arent some scio. nof Mt. Tryhard or Mt. L33t You are a victim.
More accurately you are THEIR victim and they demand you know your role and play your caste as their rightful prey.

Edited by Kjudoon, 08 December 2015 - 06:39 PM.

[Sandpit]

Astrocanis, on 08 December 2015 - 06:09 PM, said:

I wasn't actually claiming victim status. I simply don't understand how so many people (I'm assuming you?) can simply be satisfied with a very large section of the game that is practically off limits - either because it's not fun (except for those like yourself - and me, as it turns out <chagrin>) or because of the exclusionary nature of the people who enjoy it the way it is.

Talk about fear of change.

As I said in another thread - I respect you but I rarely agree with you. This is one of those times that we disagree. I don't think "you can have fun any way you want to as long as it's the way I want you to" is a very good game design paradigm. Nor is "tough ****, it is what it is." Not as long as it's as mutable as software and an online game can be. I think you might want to remember your stance on this when your sacred truths are no longer.

it's not off limits.
It's not even hard to get into.
It's not out of reach for any player that wants to participate.

It's also a very specific queue with very specific rules for a completely and totally optional section of the game. There is absolutely nothing requiring any player to jump in that queue. There's also nothing stopping a player who wants to play in that format from doing so and doing so well and performing well in it.

They very simply just have to use the free in-game tools at their disposal to do so to use a little teamwork and coordination. It's really that simple.

If it wasn't I might agree with you, but it is.

Kjudoon, on 08 December 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

Astro... Dont bother. If you arent some scio. nof Mt. Tryhard or Mt. L33t You are a victim.
More accurately you are THEIR victim and they demand you know your role and play your caste as their rightful prey.

yea that's exactly it. you got us.
dont' even start. We had a blast all weekend in CW as a PUG on the Marik TS. I can't believe you even remotely encourage this mentality since you play WITH us.
smh

[Kjudoon]

Like all mariks there is a high diversity of opinion and disagreement. So lore....

This faction hasnt been the same since the idiotic new star league incident scattered most good players all over the factions or out of the game. I boycotted 1st Tuk... Played in 12mans for 6 matches one night and realized what a steaming pile the cw still was.

I am gonna wait and see what happens coming up but my hopes are so low it is almost impossible for PGI and this community to fail them... But its been done before.

And i know i got it right. Dozens of threads and whjte knights prove it.

[Sandpit]

Kjudoon, on 08 December 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

Like all mariks there is a high diversity of opinion and disagreement. So lore....

This faction hasnt been the same since the idiotic new star league incident scattered most good players all over the factions or out of the game. I boycotted 1st Tuk... Played in 12mans for 6 matches one night and realized what a steaming pile the cw still was.

I am gonna wait and see what happens coming up but my hopes are so low it is almost impossible for PGI and this community to fail them... But its been done before.

And i know i got it right. Dozens of threads and whjte knights prove it.

cynical salt

You should come join us. We just PUG and have some fun bud

[Kjudoon]

Yep. I remember mondays on the fwlm in its heyday. Those were fun times.

No my cynicism came from pgi and the communit at large living down to my worst expectations over 2.5 years. It does not lCk merit or reason. They have made me every bit as salty and cynical as i am. Like most of the bitter vets, they were not bitter first but made that way.

[Sandpit]

Kjudoon, on 08 December 2015 - 09:19 PM, said:

Yep. I remember mondays on the fwlm in its heyday. Those were fun times.

No my cynicism came from pgi and the communit at large living down to my worst expectations over 2.5 years. It does not lCk merit or reason. They have made me every bit as salty and cynical as i am. Like most of the bitter vets, they were not bitter first but made that way.

it doesn't help anything to have that attitude though. Either you enjoy the game or you don't. If you don't, you might as well move on to something you enjoy playing. Sitting here talking about what happened 3 years ago, not playing, and being "angry" doesn't do anything except make people more miserable.

If you enjoy it, help kick around ideas to improve things. Give feedback, play with buddies, etc. PGI has listened to a LOT of ideas that we came up with for the NPE and an academy. Almost every single one of those ideas were discussed back in CB. They're working towards progress. Things have changed in how they handle things. That alone shows me they have grown up a bit and are acting in a much more professional manner which was always one of my huge complaints about PGI in general.

If you're going to play the game and be in the community why not help come up with ideas to help improve the community? One thing that PGI has no real control over is how we treat one another. It's a video game and we're all lucky enough to have lives that allow us the time to pursue that entertainment. First world problems yo.

[demoyn]

Kjudoon, on 08 December 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

This faction hasnt been the same since the idiotic new star league incident scattered most good players all over the factions or out of the game.

What are you talking about? Marik has only had about 10 exceptional players in the entire existence of MWO. During the first Tukayid event there were only four.

[Black Ivan]

Problem is PGI does not listen to improvements, there were so many great ideas postet and they all were ignored.

[gloowa]

Jun Watarase, on 23 November 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

Victim blaming is well and alive i see.

>why were you out alone late at night?
>you knew it was potentially dangerous didn't you?
>but you DELIBERATELY chose to put yourself in that position of danger!
>in other words...you were asking for it weren't you?

yes. yes you were. you are not going to shift responsibility for your personal safety on anyone else than yourself. doesn't mean that the individual that exploited your deliberate choice to put yourself in position of danger and asking for it should not be held accountable for his actions. but saying that for some reason you are not responsible for your own actions is stupid.

[BaconCouch]

PUGS can beat premades.
They need someone coordinating their movements in VOIP, and they have to listen, but it can be done.
I led a PUG group to victory over a Steiner 11 man team, and we won 48-40, it was a tough fight, and I had to pump out over 3200 damage to do it, but it is POSSIBLE. Its just an uphill battle to beat a team that is on comms, more bound to listen, and has trained together.

Learn your mechs, learn your maps, and play most to your strengths.
Besides, the overall result of it all at the end of the day was...close.

[Karamarka]

Jun Watarase, on 23 November 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

Victim blaming is well and alive i see. >why were you out alone late at night? >you knew it was potentially dangerous didn't you? >but you DELIBERATELY chose to put yourself in that position of danger! >in other words...you were asking for it weren't you?

This is dumb and you know it.

This is not alone late at night.

This is alone in the middle of an active battlefield.

[Khereg]

Ssamout, on 04 December 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

That anonymous legend about altaccount dropping from year ago hardly proves jackshit. While I was in said unit, never did see or hear about that. Also havent seen any admirals out there to give even some credibility to that. Dont recommend spreading rumours. If you suspect something happened contact pgi, and dont post crap on forums.

Also, said rumor was discredited in the same reddit thread:
https://www.reddit.c...heating/cw5ud0h

The infamous BobF showed up to set the record straight. God love him.

[Ufnal]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

it doesn't help anything to have that attitude though. Either you enjoy the game or you don't. If you don't, you might as well move on to something you enjoy playing. Sitting here talking about what happened 3 years ago, not playing, and being &quot;angry&quot; doesn't do anything except make people more miserable.

If you enjoy it, help kick around ideas to improve things. Give feedback, play with buddies, etc. PGI has listened to a LOT of ideas that we came up with for the NPE and an academy. Almost every single one of those ideas were discussed back in CB. They're working towards progress. Things have changed in how they handle things. That alone shows me they have grown up a bit and are acting in a much more professional manner which was always one of my huge complaints about PGI in general.

If you're going to play the game and be in the community why not help come up with ideas to help improve the community? One thing that PGI has no real control over is how we treat one another. It's a video game and we're all lucky enough to have lives that allow us the time to pursue that entertainment. First world problems yo.

A (c-)billion kudos to you, good sir. Wholeheartedly agreed.

Also, I think (as a noob and supposed CW victim), that experienced players being friendly, helpful and taking leadership in PUGs when playing alongside newbies makes the experience many, many times better. This is something people from both sides of the debate can do. Please, please do it.

[Sandpit]

Black Ivan, on 09 December 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

Problem is PGI does not listen to improvements, there were so many great ideas postet and they all were ignored.

That's cynicism talking

I can easily list 15 things I've noticed that PGI has changed in the past year that were very specifically requested and submitted by the community. They listen. If a person truly believes they dont' then there is zero reason for them to be on the forums. If they aren't listening what's the point in posting?

They may move at glacial speeds, but they do listen. The problem is people think they don't listen because those changes are slow to come most times and the vast majority of threads where good useful feedback is listed are duplicate threads, buried in 6 pages of cynical trolling, and posts about PGI not listening

If you have no other input and feedback other than coming to thread to say "PGI doesn't listen to you anyway" you're more a part of the problem than helping find a solution. That may sound harsh but some of you more cynical vets need a little tough love in my opinion. You've become far too jaded.

[Sandpit]

Ufnal, on 09 December 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

A (c-)billion kudos to you, good sir. Wholeheartedly agreed.

Also, I think (as a noob and supposed CW victim), that experienced players being friendly, helpful and taking leadership in PUGs when playing alongside newbies makes the experience many, many times better. This is something people from both sides of the debate can do. Please, please do it.

That last part

If you're a real "vet" and you're dropping with new players or "victims", be a vet. Do the drop calling. Once in a while I have someone in game get rude and such or say something along the lines of "quit blabbing" I politely respond with something along the lines of "No, you have a mute option, use it. I'm not going to stop helping my team coordinate". If they continue, I just block and report. Easy peasy
Those players are very far and few between though thankfully. I think most players (especially the newer ones) appreciate having someone help them learn how to focus down targets, get a team moving in a coordinated manner, etc.

[Apnu]

I think premade vs PUG tilts the table toward the premade and that needs to be fixed in CW.

That does not mean the premade will win, I've pugged CW before, ran into a premade I knew (former Davion unit doing a clan tour that I'd dropped with many times) and we beat them. Mostly because they were unfamiliar piloting clan mechs and were kinda screwing around. But that's rare.

Premades have the advantage of better teamwork from the get go. Most premades decide, in advance, what drop decks they're going with and organize waves in advance. PUGs can never do that, the pregame arrangements is a huge advantage.

In a PUG game, you have no real idea who's bringing what and who's going to call the drop. If there's enough experienced CW players in the PUG the game can be competitive, but its a crap shoot every time one drops as a PUG. This is also true of the "quick game" queue (be it solo or group).

I think only premades should play premades and PUGs should PUG in CW.

Here's an idea of how to accomplish that.

1) Remove all game modes from Quick Play except Skirmish. Just random maps, skirmish only. Keep it simple. PSR will be better for everyone

2) Move Assault and Conquest into CW. Fix the friggin maps too. Alpine and Terra Therma have to go. And don't mix and match factions of the same tech base. Wolf should only drop with Wolf. Kurita only with Kurita. Lone Wolves should have to acquire a faction contract to play CW. Even if its for 24 hours.

3) Make Invasion/Counter Attack and the 4v4 scouting mode the sole domain for premades. Let them "Open" a planet for conflict with those game modes.

4) While the planet is "open" PUGs and small groups can do Assault and Conquest games on that planet. They earn LP for it, less so than in Invasion. Also, their faction should get some kind of perks. Such as, win a game of Conquest, get 1% off all store purchases for 30 minutes for that faction. Let that stuff stack. Maybe Assault games win 1/4 of a planet shard. Stuff like that. Let the PUGs be part of the CW process, just not the thing that swings the whole planet, let them help but be away from the premade.

Do things like the above and CW will be an actual pillar of the game just as Role Warfare and Info Warfare are. (Such as they are, but that's a different topic). I don't think CW should be a game mode, it should be the thing that gets the whole community, units and lone wolves, fighting on the IS map in some way or another.

Also, doing the above will allow for an easier MM both in the quick game and CW experiences.

[demoyn]

Apnu, on 09 December 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

I think premade vs PUG tilts the table toward the premade and that needs to be fixed in CW.

This is what happens when kids get trophies for last place.

[Apnu]

demoyn, on 09 December 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

This is what happens when kids get trophies for last place.

Total nonsense.

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 09 December 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

That last part

If you're a real &quot;vet&quot; and you're dropping with new players or &quot;victims&quot;, be a vet. Do the drop calling. Once in a while I have someone in game get rude and such or say something along the lines of &quot;quit blabbing&quot; I politely respond with something along the lines of &quot;No, you have a mute option, use it. I'm not going to stop helping my team coordinate&quot;. If they continue, I just block and report. Easy peasy
Those players are very far and few between though thankfully. I think most players (especially the newer ones) appreciate having someone help them learn how to focus down targets, get a team moving in a coordinated manner, etc.

Whenever I solo drop in CW, I always ask at the start of the match if anyone minds if I drop call. Typically a handful of players will be grateful someone is taking charge because nobody wants the responsibility.

There are some PUG players that probably have VOIP turned off or refuse to listen to someone else's calls but if I can even get half the team doing the right thing it's better than nothing.