592 replies to this topic

[Husker Dude]

I hope the swing towards parity wasn't a bunch of IS teams getting ghost drops.

[Battlemaster56]

Ok clans won now give us our kodiaks you own us that much.

[Raistlic]

Well i think a if not "the" major problem between the clan and IS discussion is that human beings are hardly capable of admitting that their status as a "victor" is partly the result of superior in-game mechanics. People and especially people in competitive games are proud of their "skill". To say that a victory was partly depending on better game mechanics (in this case: clan tech) is a face threatening act of one's self perception. Actually I think that this is the reason why more people are playing IS than clan. One just don't want to use (or being accused/blamed/mocked for the use of) the superior tech because it does not reflect "true skill". On the other hand competitive teams were quite "medicore" if they wont deliberately choose superior game mechanics in order to be competitive.
I play both sides and I say in my experience clan feels "easier/better" in various ways: better range available on all models, higher damage, in-build case in each section, less crit slots, xls only destroyed by ct or both side torso losses, better movement speed, and in my personal opinion the awesome targeting comp.

The argument that certain IS models can outrange clan mechs due to quirks is weak. While clans can have these advantages on all of their machines IS is DEPENDED to those variants quirked in that way. Meaning to design a whole deck around a single advantage delivered by a single quirk.

I played on the IS side for the event and enjoyed it (except for the waiting times). The balance felt fairly good. Therefor the victory conditions came down to teamwork, communication and the understanding of a simple principle on how clan vs IS matches usually work if the skill level is the same. As an IS player you could sum it up with the phrase: Just don't try to outsnipe clans.

Edited by Raistlic, 07 December 2015 - 02:53 PM.

[WVAnonymous]

Let's hear it for the commitment the space vikings put into trying to save the inner sphere for unmodified humankind!

[Kaldrenborn]

Brace yourselves, "NERF CLANS" is coming.

[Vetal]

Actually balance is great except gausses, as i've predicted. They disappeared at all.

[Kaldrenborn]

Vetal, on 07 December 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Actually balance is great except gausses, as i've predicted. They disappeared at all.

I saw one or two dual gauss mechs, made me go "dammit!" when I got hit... haha.

[Tester128]

Vetal, on 07 December 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Actually balance is great except gausses, as i've predicted. They disappeared at all.

I actually added 1 more ton of gauss ammo on my hellbringer - now that it plays as a pure sniper weapon

Edited by Tester128, 07 December 2015 - 02:50 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

Raistlic, on 07 December 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

Well i think a if not "the" major problem between the clan and IS discussion is that human beings are hardly capable of admitting that their status as a "victor" is partly the result of superior ingame mechanics. People and especially people in competitive games are proud of their "skill". To say that a victory was partly depending on better game mechanics (in this case: clan tech) its a face threatening act of their self perception. Actually I think that this is the reason why I think more people are playing IS than clan. One just don't want to use the superior tech because it does not reflect true skill. On the other hand competitive teams were quite "medicore" if they wont deliberately choose superior game mechanics (in this case: clan tech) in order to be competitive.
I play both sides and I say in my experience clan feels easier in various ways: better range available on all models, higher damage, in-build case in each section, less crit slots, xls only destroyed by ct or both side torso losses, better movement speed, and in my personal opinion the awesome targeting comp.

The argument that certain IS models can outrange clan mechs due to quirks is weak. While clans can have these advantages on all of their machines IS is DEPENDED to those variants quirked in that way. Meaning to design a whole deck around a single advantage delivered by a single quirk.

I played on the IS side for the event and enjoyed it (except for the waiting times). The balance felt fairly good. Therefor the victory conditions came down to teamwork, communication and the understanding of a simple principle on how clan vs IS matches usually work if the skill level is the same. As an IS player you could sum it up with the phrase: Just don't try to outsnipe clans.

You're a bit absorbed in the previous balance issues. Frankly, I've never experienced better balance between Clantech and IStech in a Battletech game EVER.

In the end, I think it amounts to the fact that most new players and free-play players end up playing for the Inner Sphere, because these mechs are easier to acquire. That means that every skilled player/group has a longer wait time when they join IS. So for every single match played during this event, there was a higher chance for the Clan company to be composed of highly skilled players, as opposed to the IS which had a lower chance.

If the player population was split 50/50 between Clans and Houses, I'd imagine we'd see an even closer game, but to be fair it was pretty close this time whenever I checked the score.

There's definitely an automatic difference in playstyles between the two techs. IStech is more suited towards brawling while Clantech is more suited towards long-range battles (though IS ER LL perks almost botch this). I would guess that a majority of people have an incline towards long-range combat, because who wants to get up close to the enemy when they can pick you off in the process right? But from personal experience playing as a dedicated Clansman, I can say that when IS mechs are up in your grills brawling, it is stressful. Heat efficiency plays a big role, lots of Clanmechs run hotter or have to diminish their weapon load to mitigate this. As such, we are really not suited to close-range fights, and I saw a majority of my allies overheating in the process (myself included). Everybody has an opinion on which playstyle is OP, because we're hardwired to not see the benefits of the other (or we simply don't want to admit it so that our 'arguments' hold).

I am worried, however, of the new Origins pack coming out soon. This might throw a monkey wrench back into the balance. A large part of why Clantech has lighter equipment is so that our mechs can mount larger engines and move faster. Essentially, this is supposed to help us 'bracket' our opponent (ie. keep the opponent in our ideal weapon's range, not to just charge forward). When the Clan Battlemechs come out, we'll have customizable engines. This might not have too much effect on public queue, but for defensives in ComWar, this might put the Clans at a serious advantage, as we can mount slow engines to pack serious firepower w/ excessive heat sinks, form a firing line, and waste anyone & everyone who enters a gate.

[Devillin]

Dawnstealer, on 07 December 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

Since this is a computer game and not a role-playing game, the first has some programming issues (according to Russ) and for the second, no Clan player would willingly nerf themselves. I mean, just look at these forums with the balance starting to approach parity. Then try to imagine those same players saying "Yeah, we'll run with a 200 ton cap because we're so much better than these guys."

Don't forget that Clanners were duelists. It was dishonorable for one warrior to fire on another warrior's target. I felt that the easiest way for PGI to simulate this in the game is to make Clan targeting systems work the opposite of the IS systems. Where the IS mechs get a targeting bonus when a teammate maintains a lock, Clan mechs should get a target penalty when a teammate locks onto the same target. The more locks on a target, the bigger the penalty.

[DoctorDetroit]

PGI, you cannot release too many statistics about this event. Remember that!

[shopsmart]

One thing I was happy about is the ecm nerf. It was great seeing it implemented despite me advocating against the reduction of range. When info tech goes back up, maybe put it back at 180. Clans did great and saw some good pick up commanders that tried to herd the cats of pug-land. Many games with 24+ kills. GG to me if that happened. Can't get my mic working in MW. Team speak no issue. Have no idea why.

[Commander A9]

Well played! Well fought!

And glory to Clan Wolf!

[Repasy Cooper]

Vetal, on 07 December 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Actually balance is great except gausses, as i've predicted. They disappeared at all.

DustyHardtail, on 07 December 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

I saw one or two dual gauss mechs, made me go "dammit!" when I got hit... haha.

Tester128, on 07 December 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

I actually added 1 more ton of gauss ammo on my hellbringer - now that it plays as a pure sniper weapon

LOL The whole tourney, I was piloting this:

DWF-BUSTER

I know, 3 gauss is a bit overkill, but it feels so good to chain-fire those things.

[Devillin]

shopsmart, on 07 December 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

One thing I was happy about is the ecm nerf. It was great seeing it implemented despite me advocating against the reduction of range. When info tech goes back up, maybe put it back at 180. Clans did great and saw some good pick up commanders that tried to herd the cats of pug-land. Many games with 24+ kills. GG to me if that happened. Can't get my mic working in MW. Team speak no issue. Have no idea why.

This was my first experience with the new ECM range. I like it a lot. You still have the same umbrella effect, but the teammates actually have to work to stay in it. Cool thing is, it actually made missiles viable in CW again. This is the first time that I've seen mechs mounting missiles in CW in almost a year. I also saw a lot more people using drones to get sensor readings from above the ECM mechs, which was also pretty cool.

[KHETTI]

Well fought Clammers, balance seemed pretty good, both sides had their strengths and weaknesses.
Look forward to the next invasion rehersal!, places please!.

Edited by KHETTI, 07 December 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[Steve Pryde]

Raistlic, on 07 December 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

The argument that certain IS models can outrange clan mechs due to quirks is weak. While clans can have these advantages on all of their machines IS is DEPENDED to those variants quirked in that way. Meaning to design a whole deck around a single advantage delivered by a single quirk.

When PGI removes the range quirk, u can complain about range advantage for clans. At the moment u can not. The quirks and mechs are in the game. Live with it.

Btw I was one of the first guys who said balancing wise that PGI should give clan weapons lower range than is weapons but make them more powerful within their range and that was before clans were released.

Edited by Steve Pryde, 07 December 2015 - 03:09 PM.

[Vladosteron]

Overall Im Happy with the Event, and Clans arent "OP" Anymore im my Opinion, theres simply more skilled Players on Clan side.
Thats nothing one can Change by nerfing Clanmechs into the Ground.

[Doomerang]

Tukayyid 2 was a lot of fun, great games.

[Delta1262 Scorch]

Doomerang, on 07 December 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Tukayyid 2 was a lot of fun, great games.

Indeed, they were.