169 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

DarthRevis, on 08 December 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

The best thing you can do is say....

"I like MWO, Take all my money!" even if its not true.

Their crying oddly does in some bizarre way actually make me want to spend more money on the game.

Russ and Paul: If you read this ^ -- that is your queue to make some actual advancement in CW so I have a reason to needlessly give you more money.

[General Taskeen]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 08 December 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

My less FO fanboyish friends tell me it's pretty much just modded FO3 with updated graphics, less player choice, and voiced player player characters. They give it a 7 of 10 and told me to hold off on buying it til more mods are out and it's about $20.

I put FO4 and MWO worth maybe 5 bucks each. Anymore than that is too much to me considering how shallow each one is comparatively to the classic roots they come from. In other words, they are fun for a bit while shutting your brain down to maintenance mode, but in the end boring/lacking while frustratingly reminding me how much better they could have been.

[sycocys]

Everyone has their price limit - mine somehow didn't hit the ceiling until I needed an addicts intervention.

But its perfectly fine if all you want to do is play for free or 99% free and buy a few mechbays, there's plenty of idiots like me who will spend hundreds and thousands of dollars because we have this condition that combines our idiocy with expendable income.

Edited by sycocys, 08 December 2015 - 11:35 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

sycocys, on 08 December 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Everyone has their price limit - mine somehow didn't hit the ceiling until I needed an addicts intervention.

But its perfectly fine if all you want to do is play for free or 99% free and buy a few mechbays, there's plenty of idiots like me who will spend hundreds and thousands of dollars because we have this condition that combines our idiocy with expendable income.

It also doesn't help my wallet that it's the only PvP game I currently enjoy...

[Almond Brown]

Ronyn, on 08 December 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

I'm not interested in winning anything. I simply want you to stop being a [surat]. People like you do FAR more damage to this game than PGI has in the past year.

Really. Have a good example at hand or that thin skin starting to heat up from a little rub?

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 09 December 2015 - 04:25 PM.
Language in quote

[Phlinger]

Almond Brown, on 08 December 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Really. Have a good example at hand or that thin skin starting to heat up from a little rub?

Ego won't let you stop? I get it.

[Almond Brown]

General Taskeen, on 08 December 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

I'll be reviewing the game honestly for what I see it clearly as while having tried to slog through it. The shallowest MW game in the franchise, while at the same time managing to dumb it down for 'mass' f2p consumption.

A monotonous, grindy game lacking in several areas: No Fun unique game modes rather than the death match arenas it contains (stock mode, convoy, king of the hill, terrain control, etc.), no ability to make custom matches for free, and core issues still present since the very beginning (average map design no where near as good as previous titles or a free mod, lackluster mechanics/balancing - no iterative redesign on holdover problems from past games in franchise, and dumbed down simulation aspects).

Don't take this personally General but what you just described is "Reality Meets The Armchair Developer who has no ******* clue about the real world issues of making a modern Online Video Game".

You make it sound as if PGI did all that bad **** on purpose... get a grip [redacted] and try and find some games where the Dev have written "Obituaries" or whatever they call them and get a true understanding. Even for them, Reality vs The Vision are 2 very distinct things that very rarely marry up well... ever.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 09 December 2015 - 04:25 PM.
Language

[Sandpit]

Almond Brown, on 08 December 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Really. Have a good example at hand or that thin skin starting to heat up from a little rub?

Ronyn, on 08 December 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

Ego won't let you stop? I get it.

you two are cracking me up but seriously, can we drop the personal insults and personal arguments and get back on topic?

[Almond Brown]

Ronyn, on 08 December 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

Ego won't let you stop? I get it.

You accused me, [redacted]...

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 09 December 2015 - 04:26 PM.
Insults/language

[Phlinger]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

you two are cracking me up but seriously, can we drop the personal insults and personal arguments and get back on topic?

Thank you!

[Serpieri]

I'm reading the posts of players who feel this game is the second coming.....seems both sides need to calm down and give a proper review.

[Sandpit]

Serpieri, on 08 December 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

I'm reading the posts of players who feel this game is the second coming.....seems both sides need to calm down and give a proper review.

I keep saying I'm a hopeful cynic lol

Some are too tied up in the game 3 years ago and so wrapped up in their cynicism and being a part of the PGI "fanclub" that they can't, don't, or just ignore the improvements in the game and PGI over the past year especially.

Some are too tied up in the game today and so wrapped up in their optimism and being part of the PGI whiteknight association that they're taking everything for the "gospel" at this point and forgetting, we've been down this road a few times over the years with PGI.

I'll wait and see, but as of right now, this very moment, I'm enjoying MWO.
If they get CW "fixed" and look into making it seasons like I suggested I think that will gain a lot of popularity as well

[Wintersdark]

El Bandito, on 08 December 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Most likely they want this particular game to fail and have a different company to pick up the IP.

Because there are stupid, and think that'll happen. It won't. If this game fails, don't expect to see anyother Mechwarrior game for a very long time.

On the other hand, the more successful it is, the more likely more Battletech games are to happen.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 08 December 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

It also doesn't help my wallet that it's the only PvP game I currently enjoy...

This is the only PvP game I have ever enjoyed.

[Scyther]

Envisage posted:
Posted Today, 08:27 AM
"I love that it's going to steam, but the community seems intent on burying this game in salt."

Keep in mind that a couple dozen or even couple hundred troll[s] does not make up 'the community'. 80% or more of the actual community never even looks at forums.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 09 December 2015 - 04:29 PM.
Insults

[Wintersdark]

---

Did PGI fail to deliver on the promised design of the game?

Yes. Inarguably.

Is this unusual? No. I can't think of very many examples of developers who proposed a vision for their upcoming game and then delivered that. This doesn't make it OK, but it also doesn't make it unusual or even significant at all. "Game ends up not being everything the developers wanted it to be, news at 11!"

---

Did PGI lie to players?

Yes, though I'll say here that "Failed to fulfill design goals" does not qualify as lies. Still, they objectively said there would never be 3PV, and that happened, and there were lots of claims made and not met.

They lied in the past, they may in the future?

Yes. Of course, you should always assume anyone could lie to you in the future, particularly if you view failure to perform as proposed a lie. You should always assume a company may even maliciously lie to you in the future, because unfortunately that's the world we live in.

With that said, even those things they pretty flatly lied about (3PV for example) hardly turned out to be the cataclysmic horrors people made them out to be.

Be upset on "principle" if you must, but in the end, harm was pretty damn minor at best.

---

The only people with a right to be upset are the founders, nobody else. They invested in a promise, and what was delivered did not meet that promise. Whether it's good or not isn't relevant, just that what was delivered was very different from what many thought they were investing in.

However, to say that's important as a predictor of future PGI behavior is silly: PGI isn't asking for investments anymore. If they were (see: Transverse debacle) I'd agree that those Founder's complaints would be very relevant for that. But now? There's no investment. Now you're buying a known product, not investing on promises.

While you can say that people make purchase choices based on proposed features, I'd argue that while they may choose to do that, PGI isn't selling that. PGI is selling mech packs. Don't buy mech packs because of what you want/expect/whatever the game to be, buy them because you want those mechs. If any of the above matters to you at all, then just don't preorder anything. Hell, probably best to just not preorder things at all in any video game, IMHO. Then you're never disappointed.

But whatever. I still think that ultimately: This is just a game. It isn't important. If you like it, great, play it. If you don't, and it never improves in your eyes, then why are you still here? Just go do something else. It baffles me how truly invested people get with hating on a bloody game. It's stupid.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Wintersdark, on 08 December 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

But whatever. I still think that ultimately: This is just a game. It isn't important. If you like it, great, play it. If you don't, and it never improves in your eyes, then why are you still here? Just go do something else. It baffles me how truly invested people get with hating on a bloody game. It's stupid.

“By doing this you are like a man who wants to hit another and picks up a burning ember or excrement in his hand and so first burns himself or makes himself stink.”
Visuddhimagga IX, 23

I don't often quote things that are along the lines of "proverbs" or "motivational phrases," but I do feel like that passage applies here. People that hold on to anger are usually really bitter and unpleasant to be around, and oftentimes are 'losers' in the real world.

[TLBFestus]

PGI made several HUGE mistakes early on in the growing stages of this game and they disenfranchised some very dedicated players.

They made big promises, used the word "pillars", 90 days, etc., when those things were blatantly incorrect or misleading. That sort of thing poisons relationships and for the most part there is no fixing it.

PGI had plenty of opportunity to fix certain rifts in the community at specific times, but either chose not to, or failed to realize what they did to cause the problem in the first place. For the most part, those of us in the middle have moved on but remain vigilant and are less trusting of them for these reasons. Then you have the people on the far edges of the bell curve who are both fanatically dedicated or against everything to do with the game.

The funny thing is, while many of you are commenting on the hatefulness, stupidity, or vindictiveness of many of those posts (and some are just plain vindictive) you are participating in the same mentality by calling those people "psychopaths, haters, pathetic, etc. Step #1 in any campaign against an enemy is to always "demonize" them and justify what you do. Those of you who are ridiculously flag waving for PGI regardless of what they've done are every bit as wrong as those that are carrying torchss and ptichforks "regardless of what they've done".

[Sandpit]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 08 December 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

“By doing this you are like a man who wants to hit another and picks up a burning ember or excrement in his hand and so first burns himself or makes himself stink.”
Visuddhimagga IX, 23

I don't often quote things that are along the lines of "proverbs" or "motivational phrases," but I do feel like that passage applies here. People that hold on to anger are usually really bitter and unpleasant to be around, and oftentimes are 'losers' in the real world.

We also have a proverb
Those who stir the pot should have to lick the spoon

[Unit47]

TLBFestus, on 08 December 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

PGI made several HUGE mistakes early on in the growing stages of this game and they disenfranchised some very dedicated players.

They made big promises, used the word "pillars", 90 days, etc., when those things were blatantly incorrect or misleading. That sort of thing poisons relationships and for the most part there is no fixing it.

PGI had plenty of opportunity to fix certain rifts in the community at specific times, but either chose not to, or failed to realize what they did to cause the problem in the first place. For the most part, those of us in the middle have moved on but remain vigilant and are less trusting of them for these reasons. Then you have the people on the far edges of the bell curve who are both fanatically dedicated or against everything to do with the game.

The funny thing is, while many of you are commenting on the hatefulness, stupidity, or vindictiveness of many of those posts (and some are just plain vindictive) you are participating in the same mentality by calling those people "psychopaths, haters, pathetic, etc. Step #1 in any campaign against an enemy is to always "demonize" them and justify what you do. Those of you who are ridiculously flag waving for PGI regardless of what they've done are every bit as wrong as those that are carrying torchss and ptichforks "regardless of what they've done".

/thread

[Wintersdark]

TLBFestus, on 08 December 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

PGI made several HUGE mistakes early on in the growing stages of this game and they disenfranchised some very dedicated players.

They made big promises, used the word "pillars", 90 days, etc., when those things were blatantly incorrect or misleading. That sort of thing poisons relationships and for the most part there is no fixing it.

Fair enough. And those people should have simply moved on - if there's no fixing it, there's no fixing it. But those things happened years ago. They're done and gone.

TLBFestus, on 08 December 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

The funny thing is, while many of you are commenting on the hatefulness, stupidity, or vindictiveness of many of those posts (and some are just plain vindictive) you are participating in the same mentality by calling those people "psychopaths, haters, pathetic, etc. Step #1 in any campaign against an enemy is to always "demonize" them and justify what you do. Those of you who are ridiculously flag waving for PGI regardless of what they've done are every bit as wrong as those that are carrying torchss and ptichforks "regardless of what they've done".

If they were actually working towards something other that mindless hate, then sure, I'd be right there with you. But here's the thing.

They're just heaping hate on the game. They're not trying to improve anything - it doesn't even matter what PGI does today, they'll carry these "slights" forever as crosses to bear. They can, and should, simply leave. Go play another game that makes them happy, do what makes them happy.

The only impact they can have today is to further hurt the game. All they can do is harm things, and they know that. It's purely an act of maliciousness. There is literally nothing PGI can reasonably do today to make things right with those people.

So, those who are upset about it here? This is a different thing. They're upset at a hateful act, that's directed at PGI but going to harm the enjoyment of those who do like the game, simply because those people are salty but refuse to just move on.

Edited by Wintersdark, 08 December 2015 - 02:31 PM.