258 replies to this topic

[Mordin Ashe]

Adamski, on 12 December 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

ProTip - Sniper ACH-PRIME
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ce734c7f4bdda6c

Longer range than the Raven-3L, it can jump, and survive a ST loss. Also still has the very high hardpoints. It also costs 5 less tons in the drop deck.

The EBJ with 8x MPL has better alpha and better sustained DPS than the TDR-5SS, same tonnage cost.

I don't play or build SCR, so I will take you at your word that you like the BJ more than them.

That build is trash, look at that armor! Also you have nowhere near enough heatsinks to deal with 2xCERLL. Also, 3L can run 3 of them well, not just 2.

[SkippyT72]

Adamski, on 12 December 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

ProTip - Sniper ACH-PRIME
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ce734c7f4bdda6c

Longer range than the Raven-3L, it can jump, and survive a ST loss. Also still has the very high hardpoints. It also costs 5 less tons in the drop deck.

The EBJ with 8x MPL has better alpha and better sustained DPS than the TDR-5SS, same tonnage cost.

I don't play or build SCR, so I will take you at your word that you like the BJ more than them.

The Sniper raven

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b00cf47abf48677

Runs 20% cooler, has more armor, structure quirks, duration quirks (More damage due to less time required to DO said damage), higher DPS while still the same speed and with ECM....

If I'm hanging back and just running a sniper build that can peek, fire and retreat behind cover, then YES I'll use the 3L over the Artic Cheeta any day of the week.

[Chados]

I think the stats are clear. The so-called Clan nerfs really didn't nerf much of anything. Clan tech still dominates.

[SkippyT72]

Chados, on 12 December 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

I think the stats are clear. The so-called Clan nerfs really didn't nerf much of anything. Clan tech still dominates.

Real numbers would help blanket statements like that, player stat's and unit stat's make a huge difference instead of just mech usage stat's and it completly disreguards the entire "individual skill and teamwork" factor, of course those are never considered by the folks screaming for more nerf's since they can not be controlled or nerfed.

[Vxheous]

Monkey Lover, on 11 December 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

So how many of you clan players would take a

5ss over a timber
Bj-1x over a storm crow
RVN-3l over a ACH


I own every one of these mechs and i would take the clans and i do when we public Q. Sorry but the balance is better but its not balanced.

I would take a BJ-1x over a Stormcrow...in fact that is exactly what I do when I play pub games outside CW. I play Banshees, Blackjacks and Wolverines when not in CW.

[Surn]

Further, many clan attack waves were generator rushes. Meaning actual combat had an even higher lopsided damage favoring clan mechs than the base statistic.

IS should get 20 tons instead of 10 tons extra. This is a better balance mechanic than nerfing clan mechs.

[Adamski]

SkippyT72, on 12 December 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

The Sniper raven

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b00cf47abf48677

Runs 20% cooler, has more armor, structure quirks, duration quirks (More damage due to less time required to DO said damage), higher DPS while still the same speed and with ECM....

If I'm hanging back and just running a sniper build that can peek, fire and retreat behind cover, then YES I'll use the 3L over the Artic Cheeta any day of the week.

Do you actually look at the numbers or do you just shout "QUIRRKKS!!!!" and believe the IS is OP?

That ACH does 14.66 damage per second of face time.
That RVN-3L does 15.14 damage per second of face time.

Since the ACH has 10% more range, and JumpJets to get into more advantageous sniper positions / find better places to cool down.

[DisasterTheory]

Well first let me say that my damage averages were 1000+ in 90% of the games I played so those of you claiming this is "bad player whine" can shut your pie holes.

Second I would like to mention that even with nothing but 12 v 12 games the damage numbers look just as bad. Still Clan tech is showing Dominance.

And I refuse to believe that those damage numbers are solely based on player skill. Get over your selves.

[Vxheous]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 12 December 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Well first let me say that my damage averages were 1000+ in 90% of the games I played so those of you claiming this is "bad player whine" can shut your pie holes.

Second I would like to mention that even with nothing but 12 v 12 games the damage numbers look just as bad. Still Clan tech is showing Dominance.

And I refuse to believe that those damage numbers are solely based on player skill. Get over your selves.

1000 damage in CW is considered the low end of "acceptable" Good players typically average 2k, and depending on how bad their own team is, will be able to pull off 3K+ damage games as well.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 12 December 2015 - 10:25 AM.

[Doomerang]

Enable IS mechs for Clan pilots and Clan mechs for IS pilots for Community Warfare phase3 + Tukayyid 3. #JusticeByCombat. No, not really. But that would be a good name for it.

Edited by Doomerang, 12 December 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Sixpack]

Monkey Lover, on 11 December 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

So how many of you clan players would take a

5ss over a timber
Bj-1x over a storm crow
RVN-3l over a ACH


I own every one of these mechs and i would take the clans and i do when we public Q. Sorry but the balance is better but its not balanced.

I would take the Firestarter over the arctic cheater. I would also take the BJ-1x over the stormcrow. And I use adders anyway. Pretty sure a FS beats adders most of the time.

FS might be 5 tons heavier but if I remember correctly I can get double ams builds on them and some other nifty things.

Bj-1x is going to vomit all over the shadow cat. And should have a good chance at beating the ten tons heavier storm crow.


Considering tonnage limitations the timber should beat the 5ss 95 out of 100 fights in CW. Same with the storm crow against the Bj-1x.

I do not believe that to be true.

the 5ss would be a good replacement for the ebon jaguars that I usually run, seeing how both can more or less perform on equal terms with the 10 tons heavier timber wolf. So with that I can get more performance out of my limited drop deck.

[SkippyT72]

Adamski, on 12 December 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Do you actually look at the numbers or do you just shout "QUIRRKKS!!!!" and believe the IS is OP?

That ACH does 14.66 damage per second of face time.
That RVN-3L does 15.14 damage per second of face time.

Since the ACH has 10% more range, and JumpJets to get into more advantageous sniper positions / find better places to cool down.

Your own numbers just showed that the 3L does damage faster, not to mention it runs cooler and has a shorter duration so even with the same amount of cooldown time you can fire it more over the same period of time so once again, YES I'd take the raven 3L over the ACH as a sniper mech and that's just looking at the damage output from your numbers, that once again does not count the structure quirks it get's or the fact that it carries more armor across the board than the ACH.
By the way the range advantage is not 10%...

Oh and by the way I did not say IS is OP, I said the the Clans are not and the game is pretty much balanced other than a few structure quirks that need toned down on the IS side and a few need to be given o some clan mechs for durability reasons.


IS Er Lrg - 675 for full damage 1350 max to 0 damage 1.18 sec duration "QIURKKKS" with 8 heat

CL ER Lrg - 740 for full damage 1480 max to 0 damage 1.5 sec duration with 11 heat

60 meters difference in range is not much in this game just ask all the folks that are still pissed about ECM now being 90 meters instead of 180 because that's still too big a area...lol.

Edited by SkippyT72, 12 December 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[Smotty]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 12 December 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Well first let me say that my damage averages were 1000+ in 90% of the games I played so those of you claiming this is "bad player whine" can shut your pie holes.

Second I would like to mention that even with nothing but 12 v 12 games the damage numbers look just as bad. Still Clan tech is showing Dominance.

And I refuse to believe that those damage numbers are solely based on player skill. Get over your selves.

1k dmg is nothing in CW. Most of the top players do that with their 1st mech. (If I don't do 1k in my 1st mech I feel like a scrub) Most members of my unit (when grouped in small numbers) pull 2-3k or more dmg in CW. (One of our guys recently broke 5k for the 1st time playing solo) It does depend on how bad the pugs on your team suck though...

The clans had the better units and pilots, and with the IS structure buffs it also meant more dmg to farm.

So in short, skill was the major factor.

[demoyn]

Monkey Lover, on 12 December 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

ummm.. you understand these were the most used mechs in cw on both sides,right?

Ummm.... you understand that I also said you can't balance four to four dropdecks based on a one to one comparison, right?

Adamski, on 12 December 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

ProTip - Sniper ACH-PRIME
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ce734c7f4bdda6c

After looking at that mech I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you probably shouldn't be offering any pro tips. If you don't understand that having your lasers in the smallest arm in the game (thus being able to hill hump better), having more armor, shorter burn times, and moving quite a bit faster provides a pretty large advantage then there's really nothing I can do to help you. Yes, the jump jets would be nice, but they're far from mandatory in CW.

Chados, on 12 December 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

I think the stats are clear. The so-called Clan nerfs really didn't nerf much of anything. Clan tech still dominates.

I think the stats are clear. Marik players are in no position to evaluate this game.

Edited by demoyn, 12 December 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[demoyn]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 12 December 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Well first let me say that my damage averages were 1000+ in 90% of the games I played so those of you claiming this is "bad player whine" can shut your pie holes.

Wow. Good job, kid! I mean, I was averaging over 1300 damage in TRIAL MECHS.... but as long as your self-esteem is high who cares about reality?

[Vlad Striker]

Clan players better, no joke. That's why they won.

Edited by Vlad Striker, 12 December 2015 - 12:12 PM.

[Valar13]

Vlad Striker, on 12 December 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Clan players better, no joke. That's why they won.

A better way to put this is "Clans had the better merc units for the duration of the event"

[demoyn]

Valar13, on 12 December 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

A better way to put this is "Clans had the better merc units for the duration of the event"

No, dude... even the average clan PUG is better. It's not even close.

[Super Trooper]

Chados, on 12 December 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

I think the stats are clear. The so-called Clan nerfs really didn't nerf much of anything. Clan tech still dominates.

You are missing some major points of the game. Due to the IS structure and armor buffs, it take more damage to drop an IS mech over an equal tonnage clan mech. Also most of the best units went clan, and better players shoot straighter and can pinpoint their damage making them more efficient mech killers. I know I saw my average damage per drop go up last weekend vs before the IS buff/clan nerf.

If you could get the IS teams to go clan and all the merc units to go IS so there would be a shorter IS que, I think IS would have dominated. My highest damage game ever in CW was in IS mechs before the last buff/nerf pass.

[Sandpit]

Valar13, on 12 December 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

The problem still is not the number of players but the relative skill thereof.

The Clans had nearly every competitive unit in the game for this event, and we still held them to within a 10% lead with nothing more than a slight numerical advantage.

The balance may not be perfect, but it's pretty damn good by comparison.



I question your skills both in-game and at reading comprehension.

it's not reading comprehension. It's selective listening. He's simply using inaccurate data to further a personal opinion and agenda.

4 out of 5 dentists recommend Trident Sugar Free gum!

Meanwhile, what they don't tell you is that they set up a panel of dentists and gave them a selection of gum (most dentists will recommend not chewing gum on a regular basis in the first place) based on a slanted set of "rules" to make their gum the most appealing out of the selections. THen they simply keep running the "data collection" until their results equal one out of 5 that doesn't recommend.

That may have been one panel of 5, or it may have been randomly calling dentist offices and asking dentists. It may have been 5000 dentists surveyed or it might have been 5.

Data collection techniques and setting up an unbiased survey, poll, etc. are the first steps to accurate data.

Correlation and causality?
Here's an example of why you don't make assumptions based on raw data like the OP did.

Cities with more fire departments report a higher number of fires than cities with less fire departments annually.
Using the OP's logic and "scientific" approach, I can say, based on the above data set, that reducing the number of fire departments in the cities will reduce the number of fires in that city as Fire Departments are the cause of the fires.

Anyone with any common sense will look at that statement and realize how silly it is. When you look at stats, keep stuff like the above in mind before you jump into a public forum and make sweeping declarations on things like balance based on a raw set of data like this. You'll save yourself the trouble of getting corrected, looking a bit silly, and more people while find you more credible when you post your suggestions. Based on your post OP, I really do just assume that you have a personal agenda of nothing more than nerfing clans in the name of "balance" as opposed to an unbiased suggestion based on factual data. Even the anecdotal data used by most on the forums is more accurate when presented in an unbiased manner and as a personal opinion as opposed to this thread.