258 replies to this topic

[Valar13]

demoyn, on 12 December 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

No, dude... even the average clan PUG is better. It's not even close.

1v1 me bro.

Nah, you're not wrong. We have really good players, they're just choked out in the queues by pugs who've never so much as clicked the Faction Play button before.

[Bushmaster0]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

I am just assuming that every player in this game is 100% equal to each other and in that regard the numbers do not add up. What you and everyone here is saying is that the Clan were out numbered and had to work harder than the IS to not only out damage the IS but also win the event. I call BS.

your premise would wor if it were a free-for-all where all IS players and all Clan players were all on the same map at the same time

but they weren't... every CW drop was 12 v 12...

[Ufnal]

Zimm Kotare, on 11 December 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

I could be utterly wrong, but it seems very clear to me (sure sign that I am wrong, too good to be true & all that):

If we have 996 IS Players & 600 Clan Players, only a maximum of 600 IS Players can get a game at any one time.



So, you might have more players on one side, but more players doesn't necessarily mean more damage, you've got 396 at any one time who can't get a game, can't do any damage.

The remaining 600 on either side do their damage as they would & that all comes down to the games themselves & whether the 600 of one side has a higher proportion of more skilled players, more team work, more luck etc etc.


If there is a glaring flaw in my thinking, apologies!

Nope no flaw, you just found out why half of the OP doesn't make sense.

[LORD ORION]

Clans did more damage because of all the strucure quirks.
Look at the number of TDRs, BJs and MADs used.

[Wing 0]

Adamski, on 12 December 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

ProTip - Sniper ACH-PRIME
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ce734c7f4bdda6c

Longer range than the Raven-3L, it can jump, and survive a ST loss. Also still has the very high hardpoints. It also costs 5 less tons in the drop deck.

The EBJ with 8x MPL has better alpha and better sustained DPS than the TDR-5SS, same tonnage cost.

I don't play or build SCR, so I will take you at your word that you like the BJ more than them.

I think ive had enough of reading these idiotic postings by weaklings like yourself. you don't know how to fight one and you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

1. Cheetah's have less armor than a raven.
2. IT HAS NO HEAT GENS QUIRKS.
3. IT HAS A WIDER HITBOX THAN A RAVEN!

Anyone else who still complains about cheetah's being op, guess what they can join you in playing that video and reminding themselves that they suck. Learn to deal with it and move forward. honestly. Your I.S Mechs get all these structure buffs before the event started and you still complain like losers. I.S PILOTS CANT FIGHT. END OF STORY.

P.S Theres more than one person who posted on the forums complaining about clans being op and is in the kurita faction. Guess what, You are free to join him.

Edited by Wing 0, 12 December 2015 - 08:08 PM.

[DaFrog]

One reason only why CLAN mechs did more damage: targeting computer and IS mechs loading ammunition.... and Gauss rifles.

[SkippyT72]

Gauss rifle, really...lmfao

The insane structure quirks had nothing to do with it then correct.

To each his own opinion is all I can say to that.

[PerfectDuck]

Maybe it's because clan lasers have such a long burn time they spray everything and there's fewer 'clean' kills. Same to be said of their AC's. Sure they put out more damage on paper but what if a lot of that damage had nothing to do with how the target died?

I believe that's an element, structure quirks are an element, and IS mechs having more tonnage is an element.

But the most important reason why clans did more damage is they won more matches.

On the subject of them winning more, being in an advantageous position allows them to 'farm' the enemies as they drop and get component destruction c-bill bonuses. And to pad up their damage while other teammates have time to 'get in on the assist' they go for non-fatal areas. This may play a minor effect in the ratio of damage taken vs mechs destroyed.

Edited by PerfectDuck, 12 December 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[VorpalAnvil]

Normally my unit is Clan, but earlier tonight we went IS, and the pitiful amount of damage it takes to kill a clan mech vs. IS is somewhere in the basement. I have had 1k, 5 kills and 1400 damage and 9 kills tonight back to back. I could never do that kill to damage ratio in my clans vs. IS. Also, due to the quick recycle, low heat and crazy structure buffs it takes almost nothing approaching strategy to stomp a clan team now. You IS guys need to deal with reality, your mechs are super OP but your pilots blow. Put away the lore builds and lurms and you might finally win a match.

[Dino Might]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

lol Only took 3 minutes for my post to get knighted and boy was that a whopper. So your basicly saying that most of the IS players SUCK and that we just take longer to kill ... lol

Not most, but a larger percentage of IS players were solos and small groups vs larger more experienced groups on the Clan side. Because each match is 12v12, it doesn't matter that IS had more players total participate - both sides had the same number of mechs fighting in total for the whole event. What the data show is that the Clan players averaged more damage per mech than the IS players. This is reasonable considering the proportional difference in units on the Clan side. Also, 10 million damage is only about a 10% difference here - that means the Clans averaged 10% more damage per mech. That's not entirely unreasonable. Had the IS not gotten the structure changes, that number would certainly be lower, but what the apologists don't want to say is that the IS structure buffs still aren't enough to make the majority of IS mechs similar to Clan mechs in terms of durability. If you want to learn something, maybe look at total kills vs total damage and see if my supposition has any merit. Lookee at me being surprised by the data. Clans took on average 340 damage to kill each of their mechs. IS took about 370 on average to kill each of their mechs. Looks like IS mechs are a bit more survivable than Clan mechs.

Now...let's look at total damage output capability from the mechs used. What are the alphas at what ranges? Here the Clans still have a significant advantage when the game is peek 'n poke, which is what CW is all about. But I'm betting with all the TDRs, the advantage is not significant enough to be a very important factor. I think team composition still trumps (overwhelmingly) any kind of equipment balance issues that may persist.

Edited by Dino Might, 12 December 2015 - 11:20 PM.

[SovietArmada]

Wing 0, on 12 December 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

I think ive had enough of reading these idiotic postings by weaklings like yourself. you don't know how to fight one and you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

1. Cheetah's have less armor than a raven.
2. IT HAS NO HEAT GENS QUIRKS.
3. IT HAS A WIDER HITBOX THAN A RAVEN!

Anyone else who still complains about cheetah's being op, guess what they can join you in playing that video and reminding themselves that they suck. Learn to deal with it and move forward. honestly. Your I.S Mechs get all these structure buffs before the event started and you still complain like losers. I.S PILOTS CANT FIGHT. END OF STORY.

P.S Theres more than one person who posted on the forums complaining about clans being op and is in the kurita faction. Guess what, You are free to join him.

Cheetas have a lot of broken hit boxes, I've had AC-20 shots just go through em, or just hit a dead box. And trust me, I have no trouble hitting lights with that thing after a certain range.

Those Broken hit boxes, along with the Clan XL, make it a deadly beast right now.

To blatantly turn a blind eye on this is ignorant, and ruins any validity you have to your counter arguments.

Edited by SovietArmada, 12 December 2015 - 11:20 PM.

[PerfectDuck]

SovietArmada, on 12 December 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

Cheetas have a lot of broken hit boxes, I've had AC-20 shots just go through em, or just hit a dead box. And trust me, I have no trouble hitting lights with that thing after a certain range.

Those Broken hit boxes, along with the Clan XL, make it a deadly beast right now.

To blatantly turn a blind eye on this is ignorant, and ruins any validity you have to your counter arguments.

Speaking of 'blind eyes', surely if what you say is true you have evidence? Has anyone got recorded footage of a cheetah taking an ac20 without damage? Surely it's happened enough times that people would notice the same way we noticed that one very real particular spot on the Spider that was invulnerable and took a long while to get fixed.

Edited by PerfectDuck, 13 December 2015 - 12:10 AM.

[Sandpit]

SovietArmada, on 12 December 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

Cheetas have a lot of broken hit boxes, I've had AC-20 shots just go through em, or just hit a dead box. And trust me, I have no trouble hitting lights with that thing after a certain range.

Those Broken hit boxes, along with the Clan XL, make it a deadly beast right now.

To blatantly turn a blind eye on this is ignorant, and ruins any validity you have to your counter arguments.

I'm not even disputing your claim or listing alternate possibilities, what I am going to say is this, even if we take for granted that your claim is 100% accurate and correct, then in the grand scheme of the game and terms of balance in the game, we are at a pretty good spot if that's the worst of it.

[Ihasa]

My take on the stats is that a whole bunch of people played over a whole lot of little time, but probably not quite as many put in 36 hour days, or took off a day from work, or "forgot" to shower or supported their local paraphernalia store in some different way.

Well there's that, and that these stats are pretty much overly generalizing superlatively vague trends that they mean pretty much nothing to anyone except PGI who will interpret them anyway they deem "fit".

Edited by Ihasa, 13 December 2015 - 12:59 AM.

[SovietArmada]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2015 - 12:37 AM, said:

I'm not even disputing your claim or listing alternate possibilities, what I am going to say is this, even if we take for granted that your claim is 100% accurate and correct, then in the grand scheme of the game and terms of balance in the game, we are at a pretty good spot if that's the worst of it.

Oh no i was just commenting on the Cheeta, in terms of IS vs Clan balance, Clans are still superior. Has the gap decreased? Absolutely, by a good margin since day one.

Is the gap still wide enough that it's a balance issue? Yes.

The problem with saying difference in skill is a bad argument, because it's easy for me to say if two evenly skilled teams in every aspect go at it, the Clan side will win.

[MischiefSC]

Even PGI has made it clear the balance is still off. The big problem is that it's off because of fundamental bad balance decisions on Clan mech tech and designs - it locks the best mechs (who have ES, FF and the good hardpoints) into being flat out superior to their IS counterparts yet ensures that any attempt to buff Clan tech overall to help the Clan bad mechs buffs them as well.

Reality is that engines need normalized (or the otherwise mentioned rebalance to STD and XLs for IS and Clans in another thread) and weapons need a better normalization, at which point you can unlock Clan ES/FF and internal structure. You can't do that while Clan weapons are all universally lighter and smaller however nor can you do it with ES/FF being 1/2 the size.

The reality is you've got 2 real options - unlock Clan tech for IS mechs as 'salvage' so that Clan tech ES, FF, CXLs, even Clan mechs and weapons simply become what IS pilots all move to but wear IS tags (which is effectively lore) and TTK goes down and any real difference between factions goes away....

Or you balance IS and Clans towards a middle ground, which keeps TTK high and still leaves *some* room for differentiation between factions.

The first thing that needs to happen is elimination of the excuse 'Well, Clans are SUPPOSED to be better!' that very concept makes balance impossible without everyone moving to Clan tech. Get rid of the idea and start making decisions that let us balance the game and in the process unlock Clan tech on Clan mechs so we can shake some of the suck out of the sub-par Clan mechs.

[LeeNTien]

Message #4 says it all. The rest is irrelevant to the topic.

Edited by LeeNTien, 13 December 2015 - 02:59 AM.

[StUffz]

Since everybody is discussing about damage. Did someone consider the fact that clan has always the advantage on attack mode? With no coordinated team (e.g. Pugs) you won't have a chance for a successful defense.

[MaxFool]

StUffz, on 13 December 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

Since everybody is discussing about damage. Did someone consider the fact that clan has always the advantage on attack mode? With no coordinated team (e.g. Pugs) you won't have a chance for a successful defense.

That has nothing to do with clan vs IS balance, and not even about if attackers or defenders have advantage. If one team is organized and other not, of course the organized have advantage. Honestly, switch sides in that case, you think it would be easier if the unorganized IS team would have to attack instead of defending against organized clan team?

Doesn't even matter which team is clan and which IS, it's about which one is organized and which one has random skittles.

[Monkey Lover]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 12 December 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

I would take a BJ-1x over a Stormcrow...in fact that is exactly what I do when I play pub games outside CW. I play Banshees, Blackjacks and Wolverines when not in CW.

I just can't see anyone taking a BJ over a crow. My Crow can alpha larger than assault mechs. It i can run in one arm more lasers than the Bj and still have streaks to kill any light. Its rare for me to ever die before i hit 30% armor.
I have a hard time running wolverines with the people i play with they know to shoot the arm off. They dont last long.

As for Banshees im with you buddy i love them.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 13 December 2015 - 07:29 AM.