284 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

um a better idea would be to just balance ECM so its worth the 1.5 tons it costs

then its no big deal if a hero mech can use it

[Gas Guzzler]

Deathlike, on 16 December 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Right now, ECM is tamer than it was before... but in PUGland™, Doritos are king.

In principle, it's a bad idea to keep stuff locked in a limited way.

The Pirate's Bane (ECM Locust) is useful in a limited sense, though the 1E is still better offensively. Adding ECM to 1 of 2 Locust missile variants should have been the way to go.

The La Malinche (Banshee hero) should have had JJs on it, but due to Banshees not having JJs (it would technically be exclusive to this variant), that's why it didn't get it.

If PGI added their own "fake PGI variant" (like made up Mauler and Enforcer variants, with a few others) that included JJs, then it would probably not be so bad (as long as the new PGI variant wasn't gimped).

That's the only "fair way" of going about this as we're still building around ECM... and the Hellbringer is arguably the king of ECM (Atlas-D-DC is slow, despite being a decent brawler - though arguably can be outbrawled by the Atlas-S). It's still a balance issue first and foremost (as currently constituted - discussing mechanics is a whole different thread/matter) and accessibility is a key important aspect when it relates to these things.

Just meh.

Eh its unnecessary. ECM is overrated, especially since it is going to get nerfed in the coming months, likely before this mech is even released.

[pbiggz]

How many hours did it take for someone to start bitching about hero mechs with ECM? 3?

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 16 December 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

um a better idea would be to just balance ECM so its worth the 1.5 tons it costs

then its no big deal if a hero mech can use it

Yeah, I have warmed up to the ~3 second Dorito delay mechanic they mentioned instead of the indefinite dorito deprivation that it currently has.

It is still useful at that point, but not such a hard counter.

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 December 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

Eh its unnecessary. ECM is overrated, especially since it is going to get nerfed in the coming months, likely before this mech is even released.

There's no official timetable, so timetables that PGI don't explicitly mention are as good as "60 to 90 days".

It's not like the 90m ECM change was done immediately (in fact, I think that was the last resort considering when the original "ECM was getting its ranged nerf" was written like multiple months before).

Edit:
http://mwomercs.com/...-change-to-ecm/

It was 5 months ago. Fancy that balance change.

pbiggz, on 16 December 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

How many hours did it take for someone to start bitching about hero mechs with ECM? 3?

It only takes 1.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 December 2015 - 05:17 PM.

[TWIAFU]

Prosperity Park, on 16 December 2015 - 03:56 PM, said:

I don't like how we have more Mechs coming out where the Hero is the only version that has ECM. I think many of us will agree that ECM is still worth more than 1.5 tons, so giving only the Heo Mech ECM without assigning any significant drawbacks makes me unsettled.

I think that Mech chassis that offer an ECM Hero should also offer a ECM Standard Variant. So, instead of just the Archer Tempest getting ECM, one of the standard variants should also get ECM.

Do others feel this way, too?

So? Hero's also have unique paints/skins. They also get c-bill bonus.

In today's game, ECM has minimal viability as it is, more mechs with it for free, and more pilots that do not even know how to use it.

[Gas Guzzler]

Deathlike, on 16 December 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

There's no official timetable, so timetables that PGI don't explicitly mention are as good as "60 to 90 days".

It's not like the 90m ECM change was done immediately (in fact, I think that was the last resort considering when the original "ECM was getting its ranged nerf" was written like multiple months before).

Edit:
http://mwomercs.com/...-change-to-ecm/

It was 6 months ago. Fancy that balance change.

I'm just saying, I'm not losing sleep over the likelihood of this hero mech becoming some OP Tier 1 meta mech. As long as the Hellbringer exists somewhere in the general vicinity of its current form, that is a non-issue.

We don't even know how these are going to be quirked. It could have god awful quirks compared to the rest of the Archers. Hero mechs are supposed to be unique, otherwise what is the point of buying them? ECM makes it unique, but not necessarily the best variant.

[Otto Cannon]

No. The mech is fine.

What you're actually complaining about is ECM being overpowered- if it wasn't then there would be no issue at all with any mech being able to use it. Leaving it off hero mechs just brushes the problem under the carpet so it can be ignored for a bit longer.

Make ECM worth what it actually weighs and there is no problem.

[Impossible Wasabi]

The less ECM, the better.

At least given how silly ECM is in game at the moment.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 16 December 2015 - 05:28 PM.

[OznerpaG]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4886081

[Alistair Winter]

JagdFlanker, on 16 December 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4886081

By that logic, the Pretty Baby should get ECM too, right?

I don't own a Pretty Baby, but I have immense sympathy for the poor fools who purchased one.

[Unreliable Mercenary]

I can agree with this. There should be at least one C-bill variant that can support ECM as well.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

They are hoping people will get 3 of them for CW. IS would still have 40 tons for the 4th mech.

[Rushmoar]

I don't care that it's on a hero. It's a 70 ton mech that is not fast at all. Many will have that delightful IS XL engine. Plus ecm is phasing into something else other then that "jesus box" mechanic. I say bring it because many of the heros under perform any ways.

[OznerpaG]

ironically i just started reading all the Stackpole books and i'm on book 2 - Russ got it a little bit wrong there as Kell didn't have a magical ability to avoid fire, it was that nobody was able to target him. but that does fit the profile of MWO ECM

btw, if anybody wants the epubs in order (which are all available free anyways)
https://www.dropbox....ckpole.zip?dl=0

[Alistair Winter]

Ted Wayz, on 16 December 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

Wow, you do like to belittle people. I mean there is telling it like it is and there is saying things in a way that puts people down. But as I like to point out, seems to be your style. White knighting like a boss indeed.
If it doesn't matter then why doesn't PGI make one of the ones that doesn't cost another $15 the ECM version? Oh wait, it does matter. PGI knows ECM is a selling point and they are leveraging it to their advantage.
So yeah it does matter, especially when people are making a financial decision on their expendable income. Probably matters more than giving a mech with jump jets better hill climbing ability IMHO.

It clearly does matter, yes. But the question is: will it have a significant impact?

A lot of people are comparing it to the Hellbringer, but it's completely different. The Hellbringer was the first Clan heavy mech with ECM, and it was a top tier mech. It was also the first 65 ton Clan heavy, which mattered for CW dropdeck purposes. Putting it behind a paywall was very obviously P2W, although white knights prefer to call it 'early access'.

This is very different. The Tempest doesn't have the combination of high mounted energy and ballistic hardpoints that MWO players crave. It's not the first IS heavy with ECM, it's not even the first 70 tonner with ECM.

It does matter, just like it matters that PGI "happened" to put all the best Clan mech variants as pre-order bonuses. "Oops, you want that 6SPL Jenner IIC? Well..." But in the great scheme of things, it's probably not going to have a significant impact.

Essentially, the Tempest is a 5 ton heavier Catapult C1 with ECM. It's got some arms and stuff, sure. My point is, if you look at how many people are dominating the battlefield in their CPLT-C1 right now, it gives little reason to worry that the Tempest will change the landscape of MWO at all.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 16 December 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

By that logic, the Pretty Baby should get ECM too, right?

I don't own a Pretty Baby, but I have immense sympathy for the poor fools who purchased one.

Nope.

One was simple skill with the controls...the other actually was "magic".

Thing is... that was the pilot. Not the mech. Is really ZERO need for the mech to have the "phantom mech" ability

[Ted Wayz]

JagdFlanker, on 16 December 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4886081

Should have given it Stormcrow hit boxes then.

Alistair Winter, on 16 December 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

It clearly does matter, yes. But the question is: will it have a significant impact?

A lot of people are comparing it to the Hellbringer, but it's completely different. The Hellbringer was the first Clan heavy mech with ECM, and it was a top tier mech. It was also the first 65 ton Clan heavy, which mattered for CW dropdeck purposes. Putting it behind a paywall was very obviously P2W, although white knights prefer to call it 'early access'.

This is very different. The Tempest doesn't have the combination of high mounted energy and ballistic hardpoints that MWO players crave. It's not the first IS heavy with ECM, it's not even the first 70 tonner with ECM.

It does matter, just like it matters that PGI "happened" to put all the best Clan mech variants as pre-order bonuses. "Oops, you want that 6SPL Jenner IIC? Well..." But in the great scheme of things, it's probably not going to have a significant impact.

Essentially, the Tempest is a 5 ton heavier Catapult C1 with ECM. It's got some arms and stuff, sure. My point is, if you look at how many people are dominating the battlefield in their CPLT-C1 right now, it gives little reason to worry that the Tempest will change the landscape of MWO at all.

Now that is a good response. 10/10

[Brian Davion]

I'd be more worried about if and when PGI starts bringing in the IS TRO 3055 mechs. a lot of those mechs pack ECM. and some have the potential to be Meta changers. the Anvil for example, even stock you're looking at an ECM mech with a damn near meta weapons config

Edited by Brian Davion, 16 December 2015 - 06:46 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Alistair Winter, on 16 December 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

By that logic, the Pretty Baby should get ECM too, right?

I don't own a Pretty Baby, but I have immense sympathy for the poor fools who purchased one.

That or JJ or both.