227 replies to this topic

[Bobzilla]

Morggo, on 22 December 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

Whaa? I need more coffee, missing that point? I'd say more teamwork overall from everyone would be cool. More thinking like that to me would lead to more organized PUGs and more organized PUGs could lead to trying different strategies (had a couple bizarre matches two nights ago.. DC offered up some crackhead strategy.. I said "has the virtue of never being tried" and we all saddled up and ironically won). Communication begets teamwork which begets wins in my experience. So no, I'd say everyone should engage in teamwork.

Which, takes the loonnggg loop back to the OP which is work together meaning don't leave your heavy metal behind. You'll probably be wishing you'd hadn't three minutes from now...

Yeah, just some of the earlier posts where saying he should just not take a mech that can't keep up with the rest of the team, so basically he's not being a team player like he should, but everyone else shouldn't

[1453 R]

Mystere, on 22 December 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

I'm going to have to disagree. That only happens if there is no teamwork and there is no plan of battle. In which case, that's too bad for all the John James Rambos.

I will regretfully have to disagree with your disagreement. Respawns in the regular queue replacing the current one-life gameplay would destroy MechWarrior Online. If I wanted to play Call of Duty with robots...well, frankly I'd just buy the latest Call of Duty. It has lots of robots.

Giving people free licenses to be total idiots without repercussions is not how you develop a thinking man's shooter.

Also srsly, Mystere...get off the assymetrical drop sides kick. Piranha's explained that doing assymetrical team counts totally ruins their matchmaking system, and frankly if you think most Clan 'Mechs are up to dealing with twice their weight in enemy metal every game, you need to pilot more Clan 'mechs not named Dire TimberCrowTahs.

Anyways. On the original topic, now...

Dire Whales get left behind in two circumstances, one of which is more common than the other. The more common circumstance is that the Whale faffs around on spawn, takes several seconds to reorder weapons groups or whatever, then fidgets with their throttle and/or changes their mind on where they're going halfway there. When these Whales get left behind, it is indeed the Whale pilot's fault. You know for a fact that you don't have enough speed in reserve to be screwing around like that - you need to point yourself at your teammates and make best possible speed to rendezvous with them. A Whale that gets to going expeditiously on match start, and doesn't faff around while he does so, gets a whole lot more support than Whales that decide to dance with the daisies.

The other circumstance is, of course, NASCAR or its derivative games. Those are not the Whale pilot's fault, and any team that catches itself NASCAR-ing without an actual, actively-discussed-and-agreed plan of attack should stop doing that thing. Stringing your team out across half the map. so you can be defeated in detail is actual, legitimate Military Failure - look up the term 'defeat in detail'. That's what you're doing to yourselves every time you NASCAR, and your fatbros - the guys generally most likely to be able to turn a struggling game around - are the ones who get detail'd first.

Just...just don't do it, bruh. By all means maneuver, but don't maneuver to the point of being unable to quickly/effectively respond to threats against your team.

[LordBraxton]

WarHippy, on 22 December 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Respawns = Boring no consequences game play with the most in depth team strategy available being to group up for the next banzai charge. Every game ends up exactly the same with wave after wave of meaningless deaths until one side runs out.

that does sound exactly like CW

[Mystere]

1453 R, on 22 December 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

I will regretfully have to disagree with your disagreement. Respawns in the regular queue replacing the current one-life gameplay would destroy MechWarrior Online. If I wanted to play Call of Duty with robots...well, frankly I'd just buy the latest Call of Duty. It has lots of robots.

Giving people free licenses to be total idiots without repercussions is not how you develop a thinking man's shooter.

My idea of "respawn" is the CW kind, and with games modes better than the original "fillers that have become main features" modes we have today.

1453 R, on 22 December 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Also srsly, Mystere...get off the assymetrical drop sides kick. Piranha's explained that doing assymetrical team counts totally ruins their matchmaking system, and frankly if you think most Clan 'Mechs are up to dealing with twice their weight in enemy metal every game, you need to pilot more Clan 'mechs not named Dire TimberCrowTahs.

All I hear from PGI on this front are excuses. As such, I'm not stopping.

Also, there is no matchmaker in CW.

Finally, where did you get this "twice their weight in enemy metal every game"? I am only going for 157%.

[Roadkill]

1453 R, on 22 December 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

The more common circumstance is that the Whale faffs around on spawn, takes several seconds to reorder weapons groups or whatever, then fidgets with their throttle and/or changes their mind on where they're going halfway there. When these Whales get left behind, it is indeed the Whale pilot's fault.

You've greatly oversimplified this in order to make it the "more common" scenario. I do see the scenario you've described, but it's far from the most common one.

The reality is that there's a wide spectrum of "faffing about" for all weight classes. Taking 10 seconds to check your weapon groups, get oriented, and then get moving is not "faffing about" and if that's what causes a whale to get left behind it is 100% the group's fault.

The most common scenario is that a couple of fast Mechs (either lights or mediums) drop and get moving quickly without saying anything. The rest of the team then follows the "leaders" without saying anything. 30 seconds in the assaults are being left behind whether they got moving immediately or not. Sometimes someone speaks up... but most times not. By the 1-minute mark the team is committed, and if the NASCAR continues the assaults are hosed.

But the NASCAR doesn't always continue at first contact. And sometimes when someone speaks up early enough, the team will react appropriately.

Best way to prevent it? As soon as you drop - whether you dropped in an assault or not - locate the assaults and call out their drop location both on comms and in chat. "Assaults dropped far left, moving to assist." Or "Assaults dropped in B2, converging on them." It almost always works as long as you do it quickly enough.

[Sethliopod]

What compounds this is Assault players only speaking or typing after it's too late. Usually it's to complain, degrading effectiveness further.

Ask for the assist before you even see the enemy. I see people respond better to this.

Edited by Sethliopod, 22 December 2015 - 09:36 AM.

[Morggo]

Why the push to "get rid of PUG" or relegate it to the training grounds or Solaris? The mode exists and lots of people like it for quick action.

Seems the better approach, IF you had to introduce the concept of respawning (not the fixed 4 mech CW style) why not just incorporate it as a third mode option? Those that want to unit up, hop in CW. Those that want to have the "play with consequences" one-mech-one-life drop in solo/pug. Those that want 5 or 10 minutes of carefree and reckless play drop in a new "endless life" mode or whatever.

That way you don't force or penalize those that don't want respawn, those that do can. (personally I can guarantee I'd never drop in an endless respawn mode.. just has no interest or challenge for me honestly)

[Robot Kenshiro]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

again. one life game modes would still exist.

you realize you can have both one life gamemodes and respawn gamemodes.

one does not preclude the other.


And if the type of game you want MWO to become is one thats dominated by banal, repetitive gameplay dictated by deathballing/nascaring then Id say youve succeeded. I personally want the game to be more engaging than that, with more tactical/strategic variation, rather than just grouping up at a predetermined location on the map every damn time. The way to get there is by prioritizing objective based game play and making killing mechs matter less by adding ticket-based respawns. As long as killing the enemy team is the easiest way to win, the game will continue to fall into this ugly pattern of repetition.

One life = no risktaking because afraid to die, boring gameplay, everyone does the same thing every time.
Respawns = freedom to play how you want, ability to take risks and try new things, every game is different.

Respawns would work.... its how the game modes are not always death match skirmish. We all know everygame is deathmatch skirmish mode. Dont deny.
Assault. ..get off the base..dont cap kill em we get more cbills.
Conquest....dont cap...kills first...cap later. Oh nvm we killed em all already.
Skirmish.. well evrything happens in skirmish..nascar deathball..sllit teams..cowards..tkers over zealous ppl....ppl who think they are the best and......the normal ppl that actually are nice and play as a team.

Add respawns to assault. Add respawns to conquest. Leave Skirmish as single permadeath.
Why? Having respawns in assault and conquest will obviously promote the game modes better imho. Having to actaully cap nodes...or assaulting the base......but you know we are mechwarriors.. we only need to live once...

[cSand]

DjPush, on 22 December 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

FU! I'm in a 100 ton mech going 56Kph.

Yep, that is total B*llshit. People are idiots though so what you gonna do. Not just limited to the solo queue either..

Me and Blotto were in a couple of big, slow hitter mechs. Had 4 guys from a well known unit following us. We got attacked by a medium lance from the opposition. The 4 guys abandoned us, turned tail and fled. Me n old Blotto took down half of the lance, leaving some severely damaged remnants, which the "leet guys" came back and cleaned up. we did win the match.. barely.

We busted their balls about leaving us behind and they were like "look at the radar bro, and keep up"

Yea... my Atlas. Gonna keep up with your 140kph light mech


SMH

[Gas Guzzler]

Some of you are forgetting how terrible the assault lance spawn is on some maps. If you NASCAR away from the assaults they are going to get wasted, and it's not really even their fault. People need to be aware where their assaults are. Those Dire Wolves are a lot more useful when they are with the team than when they are getting swarmed by the other teams push.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 December 2015 - 09:45 AM.

[cSand]

Mystere, on 22 December 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

My idea of "respawn" is the CW kind, and with games modes better than the original "fillers that have become main features" modes we have today.




All I hear from PGI on this front are excuses. As such, I'm not stopping.

Also, there is no matchmaker in CW.

Finally, where did you get this "twice their weight in enemy metal every game"? I am only going for 157%.

I got no beef with you Mystere, but I am glad, so very glad, PGI will never listen to you on the 10v12 thing


so so very glad

Edited by cSand, 22 December 2015 - 09:49 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Being left behind is a self inflicted wound.

That's probably why it hurts so much to die from it.

[Gas Guzzler]

Kjudoon, on 22 December 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

Being left behind is a self inflicted wound.

That's probably why it hurts so much to die from it.

Not always. There are many times where assaults don't really have a choice, they just get flanked and ******.

[Khobai]

Quote

Being left behind is a self inflicted wound.

No it isnt lmao.

if your teammates leave you behind, when they KNOW youre slower, its their fault.

And its PGIs fault for having slow mechs spawn in the middle of f-ing nowhere

[Mystere]

cSand, on 22 December 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

I got no beef with you Mystere, but I am glad, so very glad, PGI will never listen to you on the 10v12 thing


so so very glad

My fellow Clanners cannot take a 57% disadvantage?



Besides, 4-mech lances(gasp!) in a Clan company(gasp!!) just does not sit well with me. It is one of those things that makes this alleged "Battletech" game still a "minimally viable product". And I am sure I am not the only one in thinking so.

Edited by Mystere, 22 December 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Mystere]

Morggo, on 22 December 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

Why the push to "get rid of PUG" or relegate it to the training grounds or Solaris? The mode exists and lots of people like it for quick action.

The rationale, well mine anyway, is that the pure soloists will tend to go to Solaris, while the new players will stick to the Training Academy until they feel they are ready. The casuals, on the other hand, will have to decide.

Besides, the public queues are supposed to have been just fillers. But very sadly, they have in many ways become "the game". I want to put an end to that "fillers are now main features of the game" silliness.

[pbiggz]

This is the danger of taking a slow mech in pug queue, there is no guarantee your pugs will stay with you, which sucks, and if they blame you for falling behind it just means they lack any sort of situational awareness. They are the ones who should learn to read the minimap.


Let it be known here friends, leaving your fatties behind is poor form, though im sure most of you all know that.

[Bishop Steiner]

DjPush, on 22 December 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

FU! I'm in a 100 ton mech going 56Kph.

It's my fault you chose to bring a dumptruck to a NASCAR race?

[Felicitatem Parco]

The first few posts in this thread are hilarious.

Opens with "Don't blame me for failing to read a map just because my Mech is slow."
Then, "Get a bigger engine." (Which is impossible for omni's, BTW)
Then "Assault pilots are whiney children"
Then "Getting left behind means death, so don't get yourself left behind."

There is not only much disdain for Assault Pilots around here, but also gross ignorance about game mechanics and logic.

Please, tell me how to upgrade the engine in a Clan omni Assault so it won't get left behind when the team runs off without it. Is there a DireWolf-equippable 475XL engine that I am not aware of?


*facepalm*

[Morggo]

@Mystere - I partly get your point and the history behind it too.

That said, since it has now become ingrained as part of the game for casual gamers I guess I'm not quite there on removing it. Augmenting the game with a new option I'm down with. More choice makes a richer game imho.

Only issue I see with ONLY Solaris and no solo PUGlandia would be - unless I'm not "getting it" - is it's more of a 1v1 arena thing isn't it? I really like the larger matchups, but may not want to do a full fledged unit CW drop run on a given night. That's my point I guess.