137 replies to this topic

[Vickinator]

Dimento Graven, on 27 December 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

And the point is Clanners can still manipulate their targeting range.

You missed the point where I thought your point was more 'opinion' than fact, and also where I point out that YOU TOO are comparing based on extremes, one of the better quirked IS 'mechs, one of the FEW 'mechs that gets some structure quirks and range quirks, vs. one of the Clans, few, possible underperformers, yet you miss my other point where, besides only TWO specific weapon systems, Clans STILL out range those few 'mechs that get the 25% range quirks.

Again, there's no IS quirk that allows ANY IS 'mech to survive torso loss when loading an XL engine, there's no IS quirk that makes our weapons smaller, or lighter, or increases their damage.

Still a VERY non-point. While the IS has the Command Couch, not every 'mech is allowed to carry one, plus has FAR FAR less features than the Clan TC, PLUS, clans get FOUR FREE TONS of CASE, PLUS your weapons are lighter, PLUS your weapons are smaller.

See, you're so worried about being able to load up the most massive alpha you can and getting to fire it as much as possible, all the while complaining that the IS has one or two 'mechs that have RANGE and are occasionally hard to kill...

It's absolutely ironic...

Look at those numbers, for pretty much every weapon Clan has an advantage in range in, they don't even NEED to load the TC at all. They get the RANGE, PLUS the DAMAGE, PLUS the SMALLER weapon, PLUS the LIGHTER weapon.

Then EVERY OTHER IS 'mech would need the same treatment.

Look, just face it, not EVERY Clan 'mech needs to be 200% OP to be 'viable'... You'll have uber-leet massive alpha, massive speed, massive durability chassis, then you'll have some where you won't have a great alpha, or will have some hit box issues and the like.

The fact is that the 'viable' Clan 'mechs tend to out speed, out alpha, and out survive pretty much any other IS 'mech, quirks, or no quirks.

You really hit the nail on the head for what I expect from house davion pilots lol.

[Aiden Skye]

Dimento Graven, on 27 December 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

And the point is Clanners can still manipulate their targeting range.

You missed the point where I thought your point was more 'opinion' than fact, and also where I point out that YOU TOO are comparing based on extremes, one of the better quirked IS 'mechs, one of the FEW 'mechs that gets some structure quirks and range quirks, vs. one of the Clans, few, possible underperformers, yet you miss my other point where, besides only TWO specific weapon systems, Clans STILL out range those few 'mechs that get the 25% range quirks.

Again, there's no IS quirk that allows ANY IS 'mech to survive torso loss when loading an XL engine, there's no IS quirk that makes our weapons smaller, or lighter, or increases their damage.

Still a VERY non-point. While the IS has the Command Couch, not every 'mech is allowed to carry one, plus has FAR FAR less features than the Clan TC, PLUS, clans get FOUR FREE TONS of CASE, PLUS your weapons are lighter, PLUS your weapons are smaller.

See, you're so worried about being able to load up the most massive alpha you can and getting to fire it as much as possible, all the while complaining that the IS has one or two 'mechs that have RANGE and are occasionally hard to kill...

It's absolutely ironic...

Look at those numbers, for pretty much every weapon Clan has an advantage in range in, they don't even NEED to load the TC at all. They get the RANGE, PLUS the DAMAGE, PLUS the SMALLER weapon, PLUS the LIGHTER weapon.

Then EVERY OTHER IS 'mech would need the same treatment.

Look, just face it, not EVERY Clan 'mech needs to be 200% OP to be 'viable'... You'll have uber-leet massive alpha, massive speed, massive durability chassis, then you'll have some where you won't have a great alpha, or will have some hit box issues and the like.

The fact is that the 'viable' Clan 'mechs tend to out speed, out alpha, and out survive pretty much any other IS 'mech, quirks, or no quirks.

LOL massive alpha. My most played CW chassis is my dual Largepulse Shadowcat or PPC shadowcat. Both of which have laughable alphas and are pretty tonnage restricted. Clearly massive alphas is what I seek!

I've always been an advocate for not leaving trash mechs trash. On both sides. Clans have a lot less mechs to choose from. So having crappy chassis, by proportion, results in less choices. You see where I'm coming from. IS already got a crap ton of love. Clans have received nerf after nerf, which in turn, drives the worse clan mechs lower and lower.

Anyway you seem really biased, quick to make assumptions and content to leave trash mechs trash. You've made it clear you dont want to hear anything from the clan side. Don't bother typing up another essay, I wont be reading it.

[Novakaine]

Underperforming Clanker mechs, now that's some funny stuff.

[Dimento Graven]

Aresye Kerensky, on 27 December 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

NOBODY uses a TC7 dude. If it was even slightly feasible to utilize one to get the biggest range advantage possible for lasers, you'd see it utilized on a wide variety of mechs.

Do your calculations again but use a TC1 instead, because that's really the only size TC worth taking, especially with how hot Clan mechs run and the necessity to load up on as many heat sinks as possible. Perhaps a TC2 might be utilized if there's an extra ton and crit slot available, but that's about as large as they go for any serious, non-troll builds.

Anyone who thinks the bigger TCs offer anything special over the TC1 or TC2 doesn't have a clue about the mech lab or game mechanics. An extra DHS, ERML, or ammo will ALWAYS offer more advantages than a larger TC.

Again, the fact that you HAVE that option to increase range, speed, and crit chance is pretty doggone amazing, especially considering all the other FREEBIES Clans get, smaller weapons, lighter weapons, longer reaching weapons, harder hitting weapons, survivable ST loss XL's, free 4 tons of CASE, etc. etc. etc... It doesn't matter that a TC7 is big and heavy, if you're looking for a nice set of 'quirks' all you have to do is sacrifice a portion of your alpha... Kind of like the choice the IS has to make: Do we sacrifice survivability to get extra weight to try and get more speed or more alpha?

When you're ONLY building your 'mech out for maximum alpha, yeah it can be upsetting when a few of the enemy 'mechs gets better range on ONE or TWO weapons, and gets a few extra internal quirks to make 'em harder to kill, but considering that FOR THE MOST PART, ton for ton, Clans hit harder, move faster, and can survive more damage than IS 'mechs, Clans ain't got nothin' to complain about.

[Vickinator]

Dimento Graven, on 27 December 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

Again, the fact that you HAVE that option to increase range, speed, and crit chance is pretty doggone amazing, especially considering all the other FREEBIES Clans get, smaller weapons, lighter weapons, longer reaching weapons, harder hitting weapons, survivable ST loss XL's, free 4 tons of CASE, etc. etc. etc... It doesn't matter that a TC7 is big and heavy, if you're looking for a nice set of 'quirks' all you have to do is sacrifice a portion of your alpha... Kind of like the choice the IS has to make: Do we sacrifice survivability to get extra weight to try and get more speed or more alpha?

When you're ONLY building your 'mech out for maximum alpha, yeah it can be upsetting when a few of the enemy 'mechs gets better range on ONE or TWO weapons, and gets a few extra internal quirks to make 'em harder to kill, but considering that FOR THE MOST PART, ton for ton, Clans hit harder, move faster, and can survive more damage than IS 'mechs, Clans ain't got nothin' to complain about.

Clans hit hard move fast and can take more damage. Well sure if the IS pilots your fighting have aim as good as stormtroopers, but IS laser vomit with duration quirks is rather terrifying, plus combined with structure and mobility quirks to allow peeking easier and you have a rather nasty combination

[Dimento Graven]

Bushmaster0, on 27 December 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

You keep responding to me with "YOU clanners".. um...yeah..look at my faction and try again

Also, I used the BJ as an example, never said it was the only... you apparently had a problem understanding that..

and last, I never said anything about giving clan mechs quirks.. not sure why you decided to fabricate that little tidbit..

It's not all about YOU, replying to several people simultaneously.

All those people, primarily Clanners (and their IS alts) who come on the forums and piss and moan how this ONE, or this OTHER, or that PARTICULAR IS 'mech has a quirk which makes ONE feature match/go a bit beyond Clan capabilities, ignoring the far greater number of IS 'mechs that are shooting at lesser range, with less damage, with heavier, larger weapons, having to suffer standard engines to NOT die when losing an ST....

Ton for ton, most Clan 'mechs shoot harder and farther, with lighter weapons, with smaller weapons, more swiftly, and with more survivability than their IS counterparts can manage.

Vickinator, on 27 December 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

You really hit the nail on the head for what I expect from house davion pilots lol.

Is there an actual reply there, or are you just trying to manifest an epeen through an attempted zinger?

Why not try and present an intelligent argument?

[Dimento Graven]

W A R K H A N, on 27 December 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

LOL massive alpha. My most played CW chassis is my dual Largepulse Shadowcat or PPC shadowcat. Both of which have laughable alphas and are pretty tonnage restricted. Clearly massive alphas is what I seek!

And IS 'mechs of the same build have LPL's that shot with less damage and longer range.

A 25% energy range bonus for IS LPL's doesn't overcome the Clan advantage in LPL's.

LPL - base range 730 + (weapon module 10%) 73 + (25% quirk) 182.5 = 985.5 vs. (Clan BASE, non-moduled range) = 1200, (1320 w/Level 5 module) - Clan Advantage

As far as PPC's are concerned, yeah IS ER PPC's can exceed clan range, but Clans STILL do much more damage, and at 97kph, it's still maneuverable enough to be dangerous 'mech. Besides that, unlike most IS 45 tonners, you can actually make the SHC a fairly viable gauss build. I've even seen dual gauss SHC's (don't really think they're all that viable, I grant you, BUT, if you want a viable dual gauss medium, TADA, PGI's granted Clanners the HBK-IIC variant. More firepower than a Jaeger (2 gauss, 2 ERML, vs. 2 gauss, 2 ML), moves at a comparable speed as most Jaeger dual gauss builds, and, as an added bonus, won't blow up when they lose an ST). The SHC is FAR from a trash build.

Quote

I've always been an advocate for not leaving trash mechs trash. On both sides. Clans have a lot less mechs to choose from. So having crappy chassis, by proportion, results in less choices. You see where I'm coming from. IS already got a crap ton of love. Clans have received nerf after nerf, which in turn, drives the worse clan mechs lower and lower.

Any Clan chassis with at least 3 variants has, what? At LEAST 12 potential builds with Omni pod switching... Added bonus for Clans, any chassis that has a variant with an ECM means, ALL chassis have the potential for ECM. For the IS, while we do have a few ECM builds, what we don't have are a lot of CW VIABLE ECM builds.

Pirate's Bane - FEAR THE 20 TON FUSION POWERED BEER CAN!!! (LOL)
COM-2D - Umm... What? 25 tons with 3 missile slots? Not "much" of a powerhouse.
SDR-5D - 3 Energy slots. A semi-common build, but really an XL is desired to get that as much firepower and speed as you can out of it. Unfortunately with that XL comes insta-side torso loss-death syndrome.
RVN-3L - Probably the most viable ECM 'mech the IS has in the light to medium segment. Though arguably the ACH out classes it in MANY ways.
CDA-3M - I suppose you could make it a glass cannon at load a gauss on it for LOLs, but, again, ton for ton, Clans have MUCH better options. The much maligned SHC can be pod manipulated for a harder hitting punch.
GRF-2N - I hear this is actually a semi decent 'mech, but, I don't have much experience with it. The load outs with IS standard engines always felt a bit over restrictive.
CTF-0XP - Finally filling that missing heavy with ECM 'mech, the 0XP is an 'ok' mech, but unfortunately making it survivable, putting a standard engine in it makes your movement and weapon options rather limited. Certainly doesn't have the convenience factor the Hellbringer has with it's various Omni pod options.
AS7-D-DC - A good 'mech, but again, build options are a LOT more limited if you refrain from loading an XL, though, it's nice to not have to worry about Clan assaults with ECM (yet).

Quote

Anyway you seem really biased, quick to make assumptions and content to leave trash mechs trash. You've made it clear you dont want to hear anything from the clan side. Don't bother typing up another essay, I wont be reading it.

I'm glad you won't be reading or replying, your responses are just as biased, even though my responses have included HARD UNBIASED NUMBERS (so bias is obviously in the eye of the beholder in your particular case).

Like I said when the Clans start complaining, they ALWAYS complain about A particular IS 'mech that has ONE or TWO balancing features and act like the entire system is broken because of it. Somehow managing to ignore the overbearing weight of all the other Clan benefits they're enjoying...

[Dimento Graven]

Vickinator, on 27 December 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

Clans hit hard move fast and can take more damage. Well sure if the IS pilots your fighting have aim as good as stormtroopers, but IS laser vomit with duration quirks is rather terrifying, plus combined with structure and mobility quirks to allow peeking easier and you have a rather nasty combination

So you're saying the problem isn't IS quirks, it's IS quirks with skilled play?

Of course without those quirks, EVERY IS weapon would be shooting at a shorter range, with less damage, from a heavier, bulkier weapon, instead of having TWO weapons that while NOT hitting for the same damage as their Clan counterparts, at least get to shoot a bit further.

Of course, let's not discuss that MOST battles are taking place primarily at the 100 to 500 meter distance, where those IS extended ranges mean little to nothing, but certainly those harder hitting Clan weapons, when used with equal skill as their IS counterparts, sure makes a big difference, ESPECIALLY, if the IS pilot loaded an XL... But let's not factor that in, lets focus on this very specific circumstance that applies to a few 'mechs and two specific weapons...

[Mcgral18]

Dimento Graven, on 27 December 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:

And IS 'mechs of the same build have LPL's that shot with less damage and longer range.

A 25% energy range bonus for IS LPL's doesn't overcome the Clan advantage in LPL's.

LPL - base range 730 + (weapon module 10%) 73 + (25% quirk) 182.5 = 985.5 vs. (Clan BASE, non-moduled range) = 1200, (1320 w/Level 5 module) - Clan Advantage

As far as PPC's are concerned, yeah IS ER PPC's can exceed clan range, but Clans STILL do much more damage, and at 97kph, it's still maneuverable enough to be dangerous 'mech. Besides that, unlike most IS 45 tonners, you can actually make the SHC a fairly viable gauss build. I've even seen dual gauss SHC's (don't really think they're all that viable, I grant you, BUT, if you want a viable dual gauss medium, TADA, PGI's granted Clanners the HBK-IIC variant. More firepower than a Jaeger (2 gauss, 2 ERML, vs. 2 gauss, 2 ML), moves at a comparable speed as most Jaeger dual gauss builds, and, as an added bonus, won't blow up when they lose an ST). The SHC is FAR from a trash build.

I'm sorry...but do you even read what you type?

I'm not sure I've ever seen so much ********...wait, Gyrok, right.
Of course, you're on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Here's your Dual Gauss SadCat:

IMAGINATION

You know, without ANY armour, it's IMPOSSIBLE to put ANY ammo on it. Please, take 30 SECONDS before sprouting so much bull ****.


The isLPL competes VERY nicely with the cLPL, by the way. By far one of the closest to asymmetrically balanced weapon systems. It trades range (and damage) for heat and duration.
It's one of 2 lasers that deals more damage than their Clam counterparts in the same period of time, specifically, when the isLPL deals a full 11 damage, the cLPL has only dealt 7.78 damage.

Nothing spectacular, but it's also 30% cooler. Add quirks, it becomes awesome. The cLPL is also a good weapon, of course.
Also, why are you using the 0 damage range to compare weapons? Seems silly, but I guess not factually wrong.

PPCs are rubbish, yes, but the Vindi does that better than the SadCat. 4JJs are all you need for 45 tonners, and the 1500M/s Peeps are superior to the 1200M/s ones (which are also 30% hotter).
"BUT SPLASH DAMAGE" I really DGAF about it when there's so much waste heat in comparison.
Now, cGauss+cERPPC Hunchie? I can take that. Not part of this particular equation, though. It is heat sustainable with far more ammo than a SadCat could ever take.


The SadCat is a trash tier mech located slightly above the Vindicator.
That's the truth of the matter. You can spread all the lies you want, it doesn't change that fact.

Also, the BJ does a FAR BETTER Gauss build than any SadCat, which just goes against all of your arguments...it actually CAN do Dual Gauss with ammo (but equally Terribad in the end).
BJ-1 lulz


Now, try to be more objective and not just another IS Whiner.
You're no better than the Clam apologists.

Outright lies in every post.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 27 December 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

Cause [-MS-] is now working for the Inner Sphere! Finally the Wolves have to use their own skill to take planets, instead of relying on top tier mercs.




OP crying was always been overwhelmingly made by IS players, until the latest quirk pass. Now it is closer to 50/50. I'd call that close to balanced state.

I remember our discussion about prs4 incoming, a few months ago.

I was saying that with prs3 we already had "the balance". It would be perfect if pgi added clam engine nerf, as we have now.

BUT, prs4 and engine nerf switched the balance in IS favor.

I think that,being you an IS loyal makes you difficult to see the balance in a clear way (near 50/50????? you see clan still favored???? )

It's not only because MS and many others team have switched to IS that now Clans are stuck in the map.
BUT those team switched to IS because now it is so much easier to win piloting IS.

Uberquirked mechs, more tonnage, more efficency, faster cooldown, better DHS, more range.
I'm having a lot of fun piloting IS only after that epic pgi fail patch.

It is a lot of lolliness that now, good team switched to IS showing PGI their own stupid balance concept.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 27 December 2015 - 11:51 PM.

[Joey Tankblaster]

Quote

It is a lot of lolliness that now, good team switched to IS showing PGI their own stupid balance concept.

This confirms basically that large merc units are the major problem of CW and not the balance between IS and clans.

[Dimento Graven]

Joey Tankblaster, on 28 December 2015 - 12:09 AM, said:

This confirms basically that large merc units are the major problem of CW and not the balance between IS and clans.

No, this confirms that Clan 'mechs were easier to play.

You think that people were joining the Clan factions in droves because playing for the IS against the Clans was TOO EASY?!?!!

Before the last pass the Clans could afford to make more mistakes than their IS counterparts. Now that the IS vs. Clan gap has closed a bit more, the Clans can't afford to make as many mistakes.

Before, because of the Clan tech advantage, if the IS played at the same skill level as their Clan enemy and making no more mistakes than their Clan enemy did, they'd still pretty much end up losing.

Why? Because of the fragility of any IS 'mech with an XL loaded primarily.

The IS had to worry about taking out a CT, both ST's, or both legs to end a Clan 'mech. If a Clanner takes out a single ST on an IS 'mech with an XL, his job is done, he can go on to the next enemy. That plus range differences, the viability of ECM variants, plus the alpha potential, plus the typical ton-for-ton speed differences in the heavy-assault range, the Clans had a significant advantage.

Reduce the advantage a bit and some Clanners don't have the patience for it...

[norus]

Dimento Graven, on 28 December 2015 - 12:09 AM, said:

Of course given that Clan LPLs are smaller, lighter, and Clan heat sinks are smaller, there is far more opportunity for the Clan to close the heat gap by adding more heat sinks, but we'll go on ignoring that.

Of course given that IS LPLs can put out their damage in nearly half the time of a clan LPL (or under half the time in some cases) allowing the damage to be spread over multiple torsos and arms easily, or that 3 alpha'ed together BEFORE quirks only have 1 more heat then 2 clan lpl but 7 more dmg, but we'll go on ignoring that.

Seriously, while you do have some points you're also incredibly biased to the point that I can't believe it. You're vastly underestimating how good lower burn times are. That alone is one of the bigger balancing factors as it means lots of wasted damage. If a scr and a wvk shoot each other at the same time, the wvk will have put 33 dmg into the CT vs a standard SCR's 24 dmg to his ct in return, the other 24 of the alpha will be twisted across the left torso and left arm. Assuming the IS pilot hasn't dodged back into cover to avoid a portion of that return fire.

The higher a pilots skill, the more short burn times matter as they'll be able to keep it on target with less wasted dmg due to twisting. Sincerely, a wvk-6k LPL abuser.

[Mcgral18]

Dimento Graven, on 28 December 2015 - 12:09 AM, said:

I specifically said it wasn't a viable build.

As a single gauss build THEY ARE QUITE VIABLE, AND ACTUALLY >gasp< COMMON...

Goddamn you're prone to histrionics when butthurt...

Of course given that Clan LPLs are smaller, lighter, and Clan heat sinks are smaller, there is far more opportunity for the Clan to close the heat gap by adding more heat sinks, but we'll go on ignoring that.

I'm using the maximum possible range. Again, when Clanners start crying about IS quirks, they always throw out examples of IS 'mechs getting uber range quirks, so going with their theme that "the poor poor Clans suffer because a few IS 'mechs with certain quirks causes two weapons to have longer range than the Clans' version" silliness. I mean seriously, sometimes they say "ERMERGRD!!! IS has a 'mech that has a 50% energy range quirk, EVERYTHING IS BROKEN!!!", conveniently leaving off the fact that it's only a frickin' Locust that has a quirk like that.

Clans are shaking in their cockpits because of the Locust?!?! Really?

So I just go with it, putting the actual numbers on the table for them to dry their eyes with...

Hmm.. The Vindi is one of the few 'mechs I did't actually own, considering how many I do own, that's significant. I'll buy 'em and play around with them.

I absolutely agree of all medium 'mechs in the game, the HBK-IIC is the best one. I can make 'em "out Jaeger" my Jaegers just because the Clan benefits make it possible.

Just judging by an overview of the hard points, plus Clan enhancements vs. IS limitations, I'm thinking that Shadowcat is orders of magnitude better than the Vindicator, but we'll see.

As far as accusing me of lies... You can go F yourself, get over your butthurt.

Yeah I did that, even more of a glass cannon than the triple gauss Cataphract.

Good for LOLs, not much else.

Eat a rancid phallus. Where have I lied?

Man, you sure get butthurt easily.

Can't even take some corrections without hostility? Grow up


Now, how about I go ahead and quote you:

Dimento Graven, on 27 December 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:

Besides that, unlike most IS 45 tonners, you can actually make the SHC a fairly viable gauss build. I've even seen dual gauss SHC's (don't really think they're all that viable, I grant you, BUT,

Now, how about you try to actually build a viable SadCat with a Gauss and compare to a BJ.
SHC-PRIME
BJ-1

So...the SadCat has less ammo and less damage, while also being less durable (yes, even the cXL can't save it, between quirks and hitboxes).

Vindi 1X...well, he's just a sad robot. That's similar to the SadCat build because of the lack of hardpoints (identical ones, seemingly). He is sadder than the SadCat, while the 1R might compare.



I can't see how 15 rounds are viable...unless you're not running the Jesus Box? What a silly thing to do. Even using Smalls? My oh my, "viable" indeed. A short range, pathetic alpha, fragile Medium mech that can't kill anything effectively?
Yes, "Viable" written all over it.

The cGauss is good, the SadCat is not. Remove 2 tons from MASC, that lets you get more armour+more ammo. That would change things.
But, it's an Omni, it cannot. 5 tons of hardwired equipment, more than the 3 ton difference from the Gauss, and ~2 tons from FF (which the IS ones cannot).

Heatsinks have a hard time countering 30% more heat.
Hey, how about that SadCat? My BJ does 3LPLs just fine...the SadCat? 2LPLs make it run HOT. It can mount just as many heatsinks, but runs that much hotter, for some reason. Roughly the same 30% alpha, but less damage, DOUBLE the duration, and...guess what? 300M EXTENDED range bonus...that's it. 450M optimal, 900M maximum. .55s durations make things die.


By the way, IS mechs DO have longer range. That's another lie of yours. Take the ERLLs on a pretty common 20% quirk, you have 877M with the module.
The Clam cERLL stock has 740M. +7.5% brings that to 795M
Oh, but the heavier IS LAZORS!!!11!!
Hey, do you bring 7 ERLLs? Because that 7 ton TC7 just raised your 4 cERLL build from 16 tons to 23.

That 4 isERLL build? 20 tons. Hey, Clam lasers are shorter ranged and heavier?



You say you have unbiased numbers...but what does the above say? That they are easily manipulated to whatever you want them to mean.


By the way, Hunch IIC, far from the best Med.
BJs have them beat handily. More durable, similar firepower, dem arms (UAVs, or even an enemy standing on a ledge).
Hunch isn't Terribad by any means, but it's unquirked, meaning it dies easily.


Now, are you going to be a big boy and own up to your mistake? Or just suck on another phallus?
The butthurt is strong in this one.

[Dimento Graven]

norus, on 28 December 2015 - 12:44 AM, said:

Of course given that IS LPLs can put out their damage in nearly half the time of a clan LPL (or under half the time in some cases) allowing the damage to be spread over multiple torsos and arms easily, or that 3 alpha'ed together BEFORE quirks only have 1 more heat then 2 clan lpl but 7 more dmg, but we'll go on ignoring that.

Seriously, while you do have some points you're also incredibly biased to the point that I can't believe it. You're vastly underestimating how good lower burn times are. That alone is one of the bigger balancing factors as it means lots of wasted damage. If a scr and a wvk shoot each other at the same time, the wvk will have put 33 dmg into the CT vs a standard SCR's 24 dmg to his ct in return, the other 24 of the alpha will be twisted across the left torso and left arm. Assuming the IS pilot hasn't dodged back into cover to avoid a portion of that return fire.

The higher a pilots skill, the more short burn times matter as they'll be able to keep it on target with less wasted dmg due to twisting. Sincerely, a wvk-6k LPL abuser.

I totally admit to not having a lot of experience in dueling LPLs in WVR's vs. SCR's.

If you meant the WVR-6K, I think the fact that you have to load all the lasers into the right arm, and if you're maintaining standard engine, your maximum speed is 79.5 (pre-speed tweak) and heat efficiency of 20% vs. the SCR-PRIME modified to have 2 LRG pulse in one arm, and one in the other, with a speed of 97.2 (pre-tweak) and cooling efficiency of 57%, puts the duel in the Clanner's favor.

It seems like all the Clanner has to do is maintain his superior mobility shoot off the right arm, and 6K in this scenario is over and done with.

Or is there a particular build with the WVR, not using XL's, that allows the WVR the same survivability that the Clan 'mech has by default?

I am curious, I really am interested in the build you're using to 'abuse' the LPL's.

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 27 December 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

It's not only because MS and many others team have switched to IS that now Clans are stuck in the map.
BUT those team switched to IS because now it is so much easier to win piloting IS.

It is a lot of lolliness that now, good team switched to IS showing PGI their own stupid balance concept.

Or, it could mean that those "good teams" want to try something fresh. Why wouldn't people want to try out the renewed IS mechs in CW, after playing as the Clans for a whole year?

Don't forget, [-MS-] had fought for the IS side during CW1, back when balance was even more favoring the Clans. Care to comment on that?

Finally, people are prone to throwing tantrums, when their easy-mode gets removed. In my CW matches, Clan pug and IS pug WLR are around 50%, which says more than anything.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 December 2015 - 01:28 AM.

[spectralthundr]

El Bandito, on 27 December 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

Judging from the badges, you dropped with Norm Peterson, and Mask from the Rough Riders. Of course they can lead an IS pug team to victory against Clan pugs. The Rough Riders are actually very good group--I should know, since I am one of them.

Most Steam newbies can't even torso twist yet. And mechs such as the Timberwolf and Stormcrow requires twisting to stay tanky since they have good hitboxes to compensate for lack of structure quirks.

That's if you consider massive LRM spam as very good. At least that's what Norm and his merry band usually run in non cw drops. He's a pretty easy kill more often than not to be honest as long as one uses cover to close the gap.

[El Bandito]

spectralthundr, on 28 December 2015 - 01:29 AM, said:

That's if you consider massive LRM spam as very good. At least that's what Norm and his merry band usually run in non cw drops. He's a pretty easy kill more often than not to be honest as long as one uses cover to close the gap.

LRM tactic is still darn effective, even in CW. Heck, there is even a MRR LRM complaint thread by a former Clanner, who ran to IS side afterwards. http://mwomercs.com/...pic/217003-mrr/

So don't diss LRMs. MRR-led pug team had won against a 12-man team from [SWOL] by in part using LRMs to snipe Omega. And Norm's NARCommando actually weighs 20 tons--his balls weigh the other five tons.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 December 2015 - 01:43 AM.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 28 December 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

Or, it could mean that those "good teams" want to try something fresh. Why wouldn't people want to try out the renewed IS mechs in CW, after playing as the Clans for a whole year?

Don't forget, [-MS-] had fought for the IS side during CW1, back when balance was even more favoring the Clans. Care to comment on that?

Finally, people are prone to throwing tantrums, when their easy-mode gets removed. In my CW matches, Clan pug and IS pug WLR are around 50%, which says more than anything.

MS fought for Wolf both Tuk1 and 2.

Now, playing IS is refreshing, as u say. I hope MS stay IS as long as possible, because..... I like to refresh.
A lot!
(read "refresh" as "switching toward quirks suggest and adapt")

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 28 December 2015 - 01:43 AM, said:

MS fought for Wolf both Tuk1 and 2.

Now, playing IS is refreshing, as u say. I hope MS stay IS as long as possible, because..... I like to refresh.
A lot!
(read "refresh" as "switching toward quirks suggest and adapt")

[-MS-] might have fought for Wolf in Tuk, but they were active as IS unit during CW1. As for them staying as IS for as long as possible, that suits me just fine. I would not want to be in their crosshairs.

Let the Clanners feel the sting of imminent defeat when they queue against 12-man teams from [-MS-]. Teamwork is simply OP.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 December 2015 - 01:48 AM.