522 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

So its our fault that we maximized the potential of a system? You characterize that as abuse? Because the TOS and COC doesn't.

im not holding you accountable to either the TOS or COC

im holding you accountable to the reasons for the changes russ is about to bring down on you by capping unit sizes

Would you murder people if it wasnt against the law? would your excuse be "it wasnt against the rules". Bad behavior is bad behavior regardless of whether its allowed or not.

Again you brought it on yourselves. Now youre crying about it lol.

Edited by Khobai, 05 January 2016 - 02:49 PM.

[Tesunie]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

If there was a contract system in place, mercs would NEVER join ANY House / Clan....only work contracts. In theory, a merc unit could take on a 'take xyz planet' contract with Kurita in the morning, then take a different ' take abc planet' contract with Wolf.

I'm not so sure about how a system they that would really help. Wouldn't that just make "faction hopping" even faster?

Mercs still probably should take a "contract" for a specific amount of time in a faction. Most people don't hire someone for one battle, and then let them wonder off to possibly fight them in a later battle that day. In lore, most every merc takes a contract to perform a task and stay with that faction's forces so x amount of time. This is represented by the contract lengths already in game. 7 days for a short term contract and going higher up from there.

Jenovah, on 05 January 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

So I'm supposed to reinvest money into more mechs, cbills, and time to grind everything? Yeah, sounds like a grand plan- did you buy stock in PGI?

As far as modes other than CW, its been covered why CW is more enjoyable than quick matches. Go read, don't worry- I'll wait.

Nothing says you have to buy additional mechs. You can always stay with one faction in the game.

So, what you are currently telling me is "I own all mechs of one faction, and none of another faction", so then your choice would be obvious I would think on where your contract should go for CW. If/when you want to play with your friends, and if they don't have the same faction contract you do, Group Queue is always an option.

So, why is CW more enjoyable than Quick Play matches? The longer wait times? Trying to get a unit name on a planet? The lower rewards per time invested in it?

CW would be more enjoyable over Quick Play in the fact it has respawns, and can provide more of a challenge. CW is designed (currently and is intended for) unit play and end game content. End game, as in, you should build yourself up with Quick Play matches before joining into CW play. So, if you are in a unit, then it can be a lot of fun. But so can quick play.

Anyone who says they play this game for only CW is only wanting to experience half the game. Anyone who says they will quit because of CW apparently haven't even really been playing the game. Need I mention how long the game was out before CW was placed into it? Need I remind that CW is considered still in Beta, and is still being actively worked on, altered, and changed?


For the record, I'm not reading 13 pages of stuff to find your one post that explains stuff. How about finding it yourself and quoting it? Your argument would be more valid and better understood then. (Or you could just say why you like to play CW over Quick Play matches for yourself...)

[Tesunie]

Jenovah, on 05 January 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Makes sense, how are those stock mechs working out for you?

Actually... I very much enjoy my stock mechs... I have a specific account just to run nothing but stock mechs. And yes, I do play them in live Quick Play to earn more stock equipment. (But mostly, it is used for Stock Mech Monday events, when I can sneak into it.)

To be honest, I'd love it if stock mode was a thing, and/or if everything had to be played as stock. But that's just me.

Khobai, on 05 January 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

im not holding you accountable to either the TOS or COC

im holding you accountable to the reasons for the changes russ is about to bring down on you by capping unit sizes

Again you brought it on yourselves. Now youre crying about it lol.

I don't believe unit size caps where mentioned in Phase 3 for CW changes... Did I miss something?

Last I knew, unit caps was being discussed, and then was tossed out the window. It was never implemented into the game, and never even got close to being developed.

[Khereg]

Tesunie, on 05 January 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

I don't believe unit size caps where mentioned in Phase 3 for CW changes... Did I miss something?

Last I knew, unit caps was being discussed, and then was tossed out the window. It was never implemented into the game, and never even got close to being developed.

During the last town hall Russ practically salivated over the idea. Because of that we have been assuming it's just a matter of time. It may not come with CW Phase 3, but I still believe it's coming at some point. Unless someone knows for sure they abandoned the idea?

[Tesunie]

Khereg, on 05 January 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

During the last town hall Russ practically salivated over the idea. Because of that we have been assuming it's just a matter of time. It may not come with CW Phase 3, but I still believe it's coming at some point. Unless someone knows for sure they abandoned the idea?

It was mentioned a long while ago, and rejected back then. If it's been brought back up, I wasn't aware of it.

I don't think unit size will do much of anything, besides being a hindrance. I can only hope they forget about the concept again...

[MischiefSC]

30 or 60 day cooldown on unit changes. That would make writing your own contracts all but impossible but I consider player generated contacts questionable.

Instead of a flat bonus for winning a match you get a bonus for playing against big/good units. so winning against a 228 12man nets you a 400k bonus, losing but still playing the whole match gets you 40k. Beating skittles with no tags gets you 40k, losing nets you 4k. Beating a 228 6man, 3 members of various units and 3 tagless skittles nets you 280k on a win and 28k on a loss.

Make sense? At that point the benefit of switching factions is minimal as you're not chasing salmon. It pays you best to play AGAINST big teams and the least profitable match is grinding skittles. Suddenly defending pays better than attacking but attacking takes worlds.

There is no longer a benefit to numbers save having people to drop with and huge conglomerates of mercs are gaining no real advantage and their better members/units have less high-value targets to fight.

Would fix a lot of issues.

[White Bear 84]

Anyone that watched the CW phase 3 sneak peek will notice that there appears to be a penalty for mercenary units depending on the contract based on the population of a faction.. ..interesting.

[Dawnstealer]

I don't blame merc units for bouncing around, even as a loyalist myself. That's where the fun is for them. They don't have loyalties to anyone, so can play for anyone. And the C-Bill incentives for flitting from one faction to the other are obvious.

I don't think PGI should do anything to restrict their enjoyment of the game and their freedom of movement from one faction to the other, I just don't think they should INCENTIVIZE it.

Really: just have a ramping payment system so the longer you stay with a faction, the more you earn. And implement a negative rep system with factions they fight against, so they have to overcome the negative rep before they start getting the c-bill bumps.

Simple.

[Khereg]

MischiefSC, on 05 January 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

30 or 60 day cooldown on unit changes.

I'm really half-kidding about the 10 unit loyalist thing, but it's really interesting to see the reaction.

I've got to say, something heavyhanded like this would tick off a LOT of people - not just us evil meanies in -MS-...

Any system will have an avenue for abuse and whatever framework is put in place, I suspect there will be both unintended consequences and some way of circumventing the intent.

I'm not saying we're over here cackling and rubbing our hands together at the prospect, just that we're not a pile of idiots and we like dropping together and earning c-bills. Whatever happens, we'll find a way to do those things and I think a significant number of people aren't going to like that.

Let me ask you this...what if, horror of horrors, being a merc unit becomes so onerous a burden that even -MS- doesn't want to do it any more? What if we join a faction as a loyalist unit (or set of units) and proceed to sweep over the entire map?

[Eboli]

MischiefSC, on 05 January 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

30 or 60 day cooldown on unit changes. That would make writing your own contracts all but impossible but I consider player generated contacts questionable.

Instead of a flat bonus for winning a match you get a bonus for playing against big/good units. so winning against a 228 12man nets you a 400k bonus, losing but still playing the whole match gets you 40k. Beating skittles with no tags gets you 40k, losing nets you 4k. Beating a 228 6man, 3 members of various units and 3 tagless skittles nets you 280k on a win and 28k on a loss.

Make sense? At that point the benefit of switching factions is minimal as you're not chasing salmon. It pays you best to play AGAINST big teams and the least profitable match is grinding skittles. Suddenly defending pays better than attacking but attacking takes worlds.

There is no longer a benefit to numbers save having people to drop with and huge conglomerates of mercs are gaining no real advantage and their better members/units have less high-value targets to fight.

Would fix a lot of issues.

I like the idea of having much longer contract times, maybe even removing the current short contract times but I worry that if a steam roll effect occurs (like currently what the Clans are suffering from) having it go on for longer could do more harm than good for CW.

I believe that we must be within 3-4 days on some of the big Merc units finishing their 2 week contract so the pendulum may swing again the other way soon - still not a great thing for CW.

I am playing more CW now because I find that the CBill rewards are now better. I am picking up 1-1.3 million per game on a good win and around 500-700k on a loss. Not too bad. If CBill rewards become less this could have a detrimental effect on CW.

I still believe that it would be good if PGI could somehow implement the results of Quickplay games into the "CW Universe" but there are a few issues needing to be worked out if that could occur.

I also honestly believe that there must be a cost associated with "owning" a planet. Let there be specific planetary rewards/bonuses that controlling units will earn while in control but also let there be a CBill cost for being in possession of such a planet. Call it defence, control and maintenance costs

In reality I would assume that the Controlling House will gain revenue rewards for such planets, not the Merc Units.

The defence and maintenance/controlling costs come out of the Unit's coffers.

The more planets controlled the greater the bonuses but also the greater amount of CBIlls coming out of the Unit's coffers. Units will have to be selective in what planets they control and there would be a mechanism for merc units to relinquish planetary control. Merc Units will need to rely on members having to place some earned money into the coffers and will need to be careful in their decisions about which planets to keep (and associated costs/rewards).

It could be the case that Merc Units (large and small) will reach a certain level of equilibrium where further growth is not of an advantage. It would also mean that Merc Units will also become territorial and fight tooth and nail of control of certain planets they have in their possession.


Swapping Factional contracts means that Merc Units relinquish planetary control over all their planets. This will create an incentive to seriously think hard about swapping contracts to other Houses becasue it will come at a cost.

Cheers!
Eboli

[sycocys]

Khereg, on 05 January 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Let me ask you this...what if, horror of horrors, being a merc unit becomes so onerous a burden that even -MS- doesn't want to do it any more? What if we join a faction as a loyalist unit (or set of units) and proceed to sweep over the entire map?

That's exactly what a unit the size of MS should be doing.

[Armando]

Khobai, on 05 January 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

im not holding you accountable to either the TOS or COC

im holding you accountable to the reasons for the changes russ is about to bring down on you by capping unit sizes

Would you murder people if it wasnt against the law? would your excuse be "it wasnt against the rules". Bad behavior is bad behavior regardless of whether its allowed or not.

Again you brought it on yourselves. Now youre crying about it lol.

Wow, this is some BS. People playing the game as it has been made is NOT 'bad behavior' and it is DAMN SURE not breaking TOS / COC. If PGI is unhappy with how the game is being played, it is on THEM to design it better, people will adjust (we always do), so stop your b!tch3n and go clean the kitchen cuz none one has time for this non-sense.

Tesunie, on 05 January 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'm not so sure about how a system they that would really help. Wouldn't that just make "faction hopping" even faster?

Yes it would allow for even faster 'faction hopping', however, they can only fight for another faction IF they completed their current contract (or pay a fine to break it) AND that other faction has on open contract. It gives the mercs the freedom to move around as they wish, and gives the factions a means to attract merc units.

It is the Faction that creates the contact that gets to set the terms, meaning they only have to pay for the service they WANT the merc unit to perform (why should a faction be forced to pay a merc unit for a full week, when all the faction cares about is taking one planet).

On the flip side, if the faction WANTS the merc unit to hang around they have the ability to make that happen too (sign the merc unit to a 'longer' contract).

So again, yes....it is possible for faction hopping to happen more often, but ONLY if that is what the faction WANTS to have happen.

sycocys, on 05 January 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

That's exactly what a unit the size of MS should be doing.

I have a feeling that if [-MS-] WANTED to stay one Faction to completely and totally DOMINATE the CW map, there is no force in the game that could stop them. Do people REALLY want to see [-MS-] STAY in a single faction for an extended period of time (talk about a 'negative' affect on the CW map....one faction would end up owning every planet).

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 03:53 PM.

[Jenovah]

Khobai, on 05 January 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

im not holding you accountable to either the TOS or COC

im holding you accountable to the reasons for the changes russ is about to bring down on you by capping unit sizes

Would you murder people if it wasnt against the law? would your excuse be "it wasnt against the rules". Bad behavior is bad behavior regardless of whether its allowed or not.

Again you brought it on yourselves. Now youre crying about it lol.

1st thing son, I'm not the one crying. I just wonder how rampant ignorance is that people cant see that this is something that is not the fault of anyone but PGI.

Holding me accountable? Who are you? No one important, just characters on a screen; no one of concern to hold anyone accountable. We are only bound by the TOS and COC. Besides, I recently returned from a hiatus due to work, I've only been back about a month. so how could I have a part in the current "game state?"

As for the second, I might, I might not. You shouldn't expect others to live by your values or morals, because people don't, and cant be forced to, and no one else will.

[Tesunie]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

Yes it would allow for even faster 'faction hopping', however, they can only fight for another faction IF they completed their current contract (or pay a fine to break it) AND that other faction has on open contract. It gives the mercs the freedom to move around as they wish, and gives the factions a means to attract merc units.

It is the Faction that creates the contact (sets the terms) meaning they only have to pay for the service they WANT the merc unit to perform (why should a faction be forced to pay a merc unit for a full week, when all the faction cares about is taking one planet).

On the flip side, if the faction WANTS the merc unit to hang around they have the ability to make that happen too (sign the merc unit to a 'longer' contract).

So again, yes....it is possible for faction hopping to happen more often, but ONLY if that is what the faction WANTS to have happen.

Okay, I don't want to sound dense here... but either you aren't grasping my questions about how your system could work... or I'm not grasping what you are saying for how your system could work...

Either way, I'm officially confused. Because I see this easily being a way to possible keep some Mercs out of certain factions, which limits choices for the merc. AKA: If enough people are fed up with (for example, and I mean nothing besides as an example name) -MS- for their previous antics in CW (just saying), and no faction wanted to offer them specifically a contract... what then? Are they just suppose to sit out and wait for someone to offer a contract? (Hence part of my confusion.)

People want instant gratification. They want to be able to get right in to the fighting, and right into earning rewards. You are talking to the crowd that complains that they had to wait 30 seconds for the ready up screen unless everyone was ready... so it changed to 10 seconds upon everyone connecting... Just an FYI on the type of people we have sometimes.



I think I'm not understanding your proposal enough to come to a conclusion one way or another on it. For the moment, I'll stick with "It doesn't sound like it will work, from the way I currently am understanding it".

[krash27]

I am not even sure why MWO even has CW. PGI turned from any type of a battlefield simulator when they decided to shoot for the esports FPS market.
Seems to me they are wasting their time even trying to implement CW when the ultimate goal is FPS esports.

Does any other FPS twitch shooter have much in the way of lore or any type of a CW?

[Jenovah]

Tesunie, on 05 January 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

Nothing says you have to buy additional mechs. You can always stay with one faction in the game.




So, what you are currently telling me is "I own all mechs of one faction, and none of another faction", so then your choice would be obvious I would think on where your contract should go for CW. If/when you want to play with your friends, and if they don't have the same faction contract you do, Group Queue is always an option.




So, why is CW more enjoyable than Quick Play matches? The longer wait times? Trying to get a unit name on a planet? The lower rewards per time invested in it?




CW would be more enjoyable over Quick Play in the fact it has respawns, and can provide more of a challenge. CW is designed (currently and is intended for) unit play and end game content. End game, as in, you should build yourself up with Quick Play matches before joining into CW play. So, if you are in a unit, then it can be a lot of fun. But so can quick play.




Anyone who says they play this game for only CW is only wanting to experience half the game. Anyone who says they will quit because of CW apparently haven't even really been playing the game. Need I mention how long the game was out before CW was placed into it? Need I remind that CW is considered still in Beta, and is still being actively worked on, altered, and changed?







For the record, I'm not reading 13 pages of stuff to find your one post that explains stuff. How about finding it yourself and quoting it? Your argument would be more valid and better understood then. (Or you could just say why you like to play CW over Quick Play matches for yourself...)

If, by your suggestion, I created another account- I'd have to populate it with mechs. As it is I have plenty of IS mechs and I'm building my Clan collection. But a second account, even if I made it clan, I'd still be rebuilding what I currently have, have 2 accounts for premium time, etc...

I didnt make the post on why a lot of us find CW more enjoyable, but I'll briefly touch on it since I'm lazy.

If I drop in quick, which I hate, first- since I was gone for work for over a year, I'm seal clubbing. I was auto-dropped to tier 5 and get matched as such. I'm tier 3 I think, now; Then, I have to play on maps based on a voting system, and if tourmaline is in, it wins; I have dropped in the same 4-5 maps consistantly when I do go to quick drops. At least with CW I have a random map of the ones in circulation. I also enjoy those maps more. I enjoy the teamwork. I enjoy the defense/attack/counter-attack. It's much more than just skirmish, or rarely- conquest. I have 4 mechs in my drop deck and hopefully I have variety for the ever changing conditions.

Has anyone really thought of what happens when some of these "big bad merc units" drop quick play as a 12 man? Waiting for the MM to set up the match for forever, and then its over just as fast. You'll spend more time waiting than anything. Currently the wait time hasnt been bad at all for me in CW. Could be my time zone too.

As far as the rewards, I get better rewards than in quick. I've nailed 6, 7, 8 kills in quick play and had matches ranging from 400 to 1300 damage in quick- about 300-400k or so in cbills if we win, and if I do well... In CW I get additional what, 300k CBills for a win I think, on top of my normal cbill grab- and I consistently do 1k damage so the payout is much better. Even if I do poorly I'm guaranteed the 300k if my team wins. Makes sense to me.

Don't get me wrong, I still drop in quick to test a new build or to play my b.s. builds with 6MG's and 3MPL's just to tinker around. However, before I left for work, right when CW was being promised, I was drooling at the thought of CW. Now, I pretty much stick there.

Edited by Jenovah, 05 January 2016 - 04:06 PM.

[Armando]

Tesunie, on 05 January 2016 - 03:54 PM, said:

Okay, I don't want to sound dense here... but either you aren't grasping my questions about how your system could work... or I'm not grasping what you are saying for how your system could work...

Either way, I'm officially confused. Because I see this easily being a way to possible keep some Mercs out of certain factions, which limits choices for the merc. AKA: If enough people are fed up with (for example, and I mean nothing besides as an example name) -MS- for their previous antics in CW (just saying), and no faction wanted to offer them specifically a contract... what then? Are they just suppose to sit out and wait for someone to offer a contract? (Hence part of my confusion.)

People want instant gratification. They want to be able to get right in to the fighting, and right into earning rewards. You are talking to the crowd that complains that they had to wait 30 seconds for the ready up screen unless everyone was ready... so it changed to 10 seconds upon everyone connecting... Just an FYI on the type of people we have sometimes.



I think I'm not understanding your proposal enough to come to a conclusion one way or another on it. For the moment, I'll stick with "It doesn't sound like it will work, from the way I currently am understanding it".

"Because I see this easily being a way to possible keep some Mercs out of certain factions, which limits choices for the merc."

While this would keep them from getting 'custom' contracts from Faction Unit Leaders....would have 0 effect on a merc units ability to take 'auto generated' contracts.

Also, game working as designed, the mercs that can take the most planets in the shortest amount of time are the units that would get the most lucrative 'custom contracts' providing they maintain good relations with the Faction Unit Leaders. If a merc unit pisses off ALL the Faction Unit Leaders...bye bye custom contracts, have fun grinding nothing but 'auto generated' contracts.

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 04:15 PM.

[Khereg]

sycocys, on 05 January 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

That's exactly what a unit the size of MS should be doing.

We kind of are, except we make map changes that ebb and flow like the tide instead of moving in a one directional current. Sounds poetic, don't it?

Also, we like playing both IS and Clan mechs, which ultimately means either the unit as a whole or the individual players will be switching factions from time to time. That won't change unless CW is radically re-conceived to allow an individual faction to bring all mechs to CW.

[Tesunie]

Khereg, on 05 January 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

That won't change unless CW is radically re-conceived to allow an individual faction to bring all mechs to CW.

I don't think that will happen...

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

While this would keep them from getting 'custom' contracts from Faction Unit Leaders....would have 0 effect on a merc units ability to take 'auto generated' contracts.

I don't think it would work as intended, but it's not a horrible idea. I could see the merit behind it.

Sorry it took so long for me to figure out what you were talking about...

[Armando]

Tesunie, on 05 January 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Sorry it took so long for me to figure out what you were talking about...

Shiat....I don't know what I am talking about half the time. No worries friend.

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 04:29 PM.