62 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

Wolfways, on 03 January 2016 - 10:38 PM, said:

I don't know why people make such a big deal about the clan XL. So if you lose a st you get to live for a few more seconds? Big deal. Not that i see clan mechs losing st's very often, their ct's blow out almost instantly.

The heat system is the worst thing in the game, and imo more heat on anything is a massive nerf.

But I don't play meta, and if pgi are balancing for meta...

I'm often able to squeeze an additional 300-500 damage out of some of my clan mechs after losing a side torso. If you are dying within seconds of losing one of your side torsos, you aren't using cover correctly.

[Grimlox]

I think CW outcome has way more to do with the players on each side rather than the mechs used themselves. There are some great IS and Clan mechs and some lousy IS and Clan mechs and when you have organized groups on both sides there can be some excellent matches. The issue is these are few and far between with the way matches happen right now.

CW would be fantastic if the LFG tool was more robust and PUG groups could at least coordinate more effectively. I also have the problem of the in game VOIP generally not working for me and I know other have this problem as well so if that could be looked at it would help matches.

[Appogee]

Aramoro999, on 05 January 2016 - 01:09 PM, said:

What? They bring other mechs?
And what does pugs have to do whit this?

I don't understand your question. I suspect you didn't understand my post, either.

[Kieva]

I'll tell ya what guys, I'm gonna start taking screenshots of every drop we do against PUGs, I only CW with my unit, and we go 8-man and up. Now, Clan Wolf PUGs are notoriously bad, but usually when we do have solo pilots in our drop, they'll at least follow my instructions.

I usually drop command, and I'm usually pretty darn good at it. I've had my 12-mans lose to skittles on this new balance, which is very disturbing.

[Hydrocarbon]

Previously, clan mechs were survivable due to fast-twisting allowing to spread damage across 3-5 hitboxes. Clan XL's aided that immensely. Prime example: Stormcrow. Now removing a ST is like legging them - they have more speed but much less DPS.

Previously, IS mechs had specific quirks leading to a few uber mechs. Most were turds to begin with (bad hitboxes & engine caps mostly), so it balanced to a degree. Prime example: T-bolt 9S. Now they have generic quirks (leading to more horrible PUG builds) but still ****** hitboxes - but those hitboxes are like walking bunkers.



In any case, 90% of the problems PGI responds to are from players failing to use a mech properly & while others min/max'ing. it doesn't matter how they balance things, some people just suck at MWO & life in general. An invasion-era ubercrow with a non-ultra AC5, c-srm2, lrm20, erll, erml, and spl with a moron of a pilot couldn't compete with the current failboat 9S with a decent pilot.

[pwnface]

Kieva, on 06 January 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

I'll tell ya what guys, I'm gonna start taking screenshots of every drop we do against PUGs, I only CW with my unit, and we go 8-man and up. Now, Clan Wolf PUGs are notoriously bad, but usually when we do have solo pilots in our drop, they'll at least follow my instructions.

I usually drop command, and I'm usually pretty darn good at it. I've had my 12-mans lose to skittles on this new balance, which is very disturbing.

If your 12-man is losing to skittle pugs, I've got news for you buddy. Either your drop calling isn't as hot as you think it is or your players are worse than the average PUG.

Hydrocarbon, on 06 January 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

In any case, 90% of the problems PGI responds to are from players failing to use a mech properly & while others min/max'ing. it doesn't matter how they balance things, some people just suck at MWO & life in general. An invasion-era ubercrow with a non-ultra AC5, c-srm2, lrm20, erll, erml, and spl with a moron of a pilot couldn't compete with the current failboat 9S with a decent pilot.

This is the crux of the issue. 90% of the players who complain about balance on the forums wouldn't know balance if it hit them in the f*cking face. If you don't know how to min-max your builds to squeeze as much performance out of a chassis as possible, how the hell are you supposed to know what is balanced and what isn't?

"My lore/trial mech can't beat meta quirked IS mechs, game is unbalanced, boohoo"

[MischiefSC]

You don't even need to bring max meta. A good build will do. Something decent. Lbx + lrms and 2 tons ammo for each? XL Atlas?

It's like the trial clan mechs discussion we had. You were right btw. Dire, TW, ACH, good for 2k. The Scatter is fun to jj around in but 1 gauss plus 2 mls isn't gonna carry anything.

You don't bring that EBJ or Executioner instead. If you do and you lose the problem was you taking a bad mech.

[pwnface]

MischiefSC, on 06 January 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

You don't even need to bring max meta. A good build will do. Something decent. Lbx + lrms and 2 tons ammo for each? XL Atlas?

It's like the trial clan mechs discussion we had. You were right btw. Dire, TW, ACH, good for 2k. The Scatter is fun to jj around in but 1 gauss plus 2 mls isn't gonna carry anything.

You don't bring that EBJ or Executioner instead. If you do and you lose the problem was you taking a bad mech.

With the new increased tonnage. You can bring DWF, TBR, SCR, ACH in the same drop deck. The trial versions of these mechs happen to be between decent and good. NS has rolled 48 clan trial drop decks and mopped the floor with some IS units.

[Gas Guzzler]

pwnface, on 06 January 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

With the new increased tonnage. You can bring DWF, TBR, SCR, ACH in the same drop deck. The trial versions of these mechs happen to be between decent and good. NS has rolled 48 clan trial drop decks and mopped the floor with some IS units.

True story, I was there.

[Dawnstealer]

Wolfways, on 02 January 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:

I wish I'd came back to the game earlier when people say that. Must've been nice to get a win now and then...

Don't worry - when -MS- and 228 (and SWOL??) come back, you'll win PLENTY. And then YOU will be the one coming on the boards telling crying IS players to play harder, learn to play, etc.

pwnface, on 06 January 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

With the new increased tonnage. You can bring DWF, TBR, SCR, ACH in the same drop deck. The trial versions of these mechs happen to be between decent and good. NS has rolled 48 clan trial drop decks and mopped the floor with some IS units.

Ohhhhh - THIS is why I was seeing so many Whales. I never run Clan mechs, and haven't run a trial mech in a couple years. Was wondering why so many people, especially suspiciously new players, were suddenly dropping them.

[Gas Guzzler]

Wolfways, on 02 January 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:

I wish I'd came back to the game earlier when people say that. Must've been nice to get a win now and then...

Lawl.

Most of my games in CJF have been wins. The only losses I can remember are being in a pug team vs a team with a big group, or losing to objective rush.

[MischiefSC]

Pfft.

I pug with a lot of IS units.

Many of us are terrible.

I watched one guy kill himself by going out of bounds by accident on Grim Portico 3 times in the same match.

I watched a 3 man of one unit not only tell everyone trying to coordinate the drop to hush but the proceeded to all score under 600 damage. All 3 under 600. In CW. On counter-attack on Boreal.

To be fair some teams could be beaten with 2 Adders, one Shadow Cat, and a potato.

[pwnface]

MischiefSC, on 06 January 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

Pfft.

I pug with a lot of IS units.

Many of us are terrible.

I watched one guy kill himself by going out of bounds by accident on Grim Portico 3 times in the same match.

I watched a 3 man of one unit not only tell everyone trying to coordinate the drop to hush but the proceeded to all score under 600 damage. All 3 under 600. In CW. On counter-attack on Boreal.

To be fair some teams could be beaten with 2 Adders, one Shadow Cat, and a potato.

I watched a PUG yell drop calls through VOIP while throwing LRMs into a wall for 20 minutes. Final score for that guy after 4 mechs? 1 damage.

4 mechs. 1 Damage. Why are you trying to drop call?

Some people in this game are DownRightEmbarassing.

[MischiefSC]

pwnface, on 06 January 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

I watched a PUG yell drop calls through VOIP while throwing LRMs into a wall for 20 minutes. Final score for that guy after 4 mechs? 1 damage.

4 mechs. 1 Damage. Why are you trying to drop call?

Some people in this game are DownRightEmbarassing.

Maybe. But I bet that wall respected his mother ******* authority though.

[Bullseye69]

There will always be a winner and a loosed just want a good game and not a ROFL stomp.
I was seeing new tactics from clan to combat the new range on some is mechs and it was new and differwet. We won and lost to the clans but had a good time doing it. The increase in tonnage should have been down instead of up though tired of seeing the same chassis over and over again. The reason I take mostly heavy is that the only thing that survives against the meta MD,stormcrow all SRM build I see. Would love to see a game with one big mech and mostly light and mediums for a week at a times change the tonnage up.

PGI how about a way to save multi drop deck would be nice so you could have a drop deck on and drop deck two.

[Wolfways]

Dawnstealer, on 06 January 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

Don't worry - when -MS- and 228 (and SWOL??) come back, you'll win PLENTY. And then YOU will be the one coming on the boards telling crying IS players to play harder, learn to play, etc.

No.
Those units were playing clan when I came back to the game, and while I did get wins when I was grouped with them as an "add-on pug" that was very rare.

I'm currently collecting some basic info from CW matches, just units of 4+ on either side, who won, etc. and then I'll do the same on my IS account.
So far it seems that IS have a premade in many matches while clan have almost none, but even when it's just complete pug v pug IS nearly always easily win.

[Bud Crue]

To those of you now screaming "IS mechs are OP":

I suggest you go look at the forum threads after both battles of Tukyyid. The Clanners, especially those in Clan Wolf, insisted almost without exception, that their then dominance of the game was purely, exclusively, wholly, and without exception due to their "superior" skills. Not mercs. Not mechs. Skill, and skill alone, has always been what the clan player base has pointed to when IS players screamed about "OP clan mechs". Many posts exist and can be readily viewed if you bothered to search, which are dedicated to explaining to the whiney IS players that despite their over quirked mechs and greater population they simply cannot match the Clan players greater skill. I find it difficult to now believe that some extra structure on the Black Jack and any other nerf/buff you care to point to has managed to utterly eliminate the vaunted superior skills of the Clan players.

Or maybe it really is that there is suckitude and skill on both sides but that it is the mercs and competitive units that dictate the state of the map more than anything else?

[Gas Guzzler]

Wolfways, on 07 January 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

No.
Those units were playing clan when I came back to the game, and while I did get wins when I was grouped with them as an "add-on pug" that was very rare.

I'm currently collecting some basic info from CW matches, just units of 4+ on either side, who won, etc. and then I'll do the same on my IS account.
So far it seems that IS have a premade in many matches while clan have almost none, but even when it's just complete pug v pug IS nearly always easily win.

Its not going to prove anything. Different premades have different values. On a fully pug clan team, we beat an IS team on boreal (extreme range oh noes!) with a premade from one unit (no name and shame), and another match on boreal, we lost to an AS premade. Both matches consisted of a pug clan team versus an IS team with a premade (not a 12-man, more like a ~5-6 man), one was a win, one was a loss. What gives? The tech didn't change. Maybe it is with the AS premade, the average skill of the IS team was higher than my mixed bag of pug teammates? Surely you can't just assume "IS OP" based on that result, especially when another match in a similar situation with a different unit's premade ended the opposite way.

[Wolfways]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 January 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Its not going to prove anything. Different premades have different values. On a fully pug clan team, we beat an IS team on boreal (extreme range oh noes!) with a premade from one unit (no name and shame), and another match on boreal, we lost to an AS premade. Both matches consisted of a pug clan team versus an IS team with a premade (not a 12-man, more like a ~5-6 man), one was a win, one was a loss. What gives? The tech didn't change. Maybe it is with the AS premade, the average skill of the IS team was higher than my mixed bag of pug teammates? Surely you can't just assume "IS OP" based on that result, especially when another match in a similar situation with a different unit's premade ended the opposite way.

I'm not aiming to prove anything. I'm just doing it for myself to see how things are different on the IS and clan sides, like how there's usually a 6-8+ unit on IS side but very rarely any unit on clan side.

[xe N on]

Funny.

People in this sub-forum always trying to prove that the faction currently is "winning" CW has the most has the most OP mechs.

But these people really underestimate one thing: NO ONE CARES ABOUT CW!

If you want to estimate if a mech is good or bad go to normal game mode and analyze the statistic of the most utilized mechs in tier 1 or maybe 2. But hey, a mech that is good in tier 1 maybe suck in tier 5 where everything is about LRMs. So, even this statistic only gives a really "limited" view of a mech's performance.

Example: In "normal game play" no one cares about an Thunderbolt shooting ERLL at 1 km ... because in most of the maps this range advantage is a nice to have but in general ... irrelevant (or some would say "not game breaking" or "balanced"). But, suddenly, putting such a mech in the enviroment of CW game mode this mech becomes "OP".

Why? Because the whole CW game mode simply is totally of bad design. Starting with the bad map design, the idea of "wall with gates" and finally the missing match maker.

A minority of MWO players actually play this halfed baked game mode. And now people trying to argue on mech balance mech based of the performance in CW? Are you trying to killing this game? Come back in 2 yerars at a time where CW might be at a level that is playable.

Edited by xe N on, 07 January 2016 - 09:40 AM.