829 replies to this topic

[LT. HARDCASE]

To the people who what the Viper and Black Lanner:

Are you paying attention to the fact that each of them literally have ONE usable set of omnipods? Outside of the Viper A and the Black Lanner C, they have some of the worst omnipod configs possible. Pure trash.

The logical pick is the Huntsman, and consolation prize goes to the Phantom.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 12 January 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

I'm 100% sure I could pull 1000 damage games in this thing without quirks or ECM. So its not going to suck that badly, but it will have some downsides, and if I feel pretty good about saying this is a prime candidate for structure quirks, so Clanners can have a tank too. The ECM F variant is out of timeline, but could easily be modified and added (just changing one weapon basically), and again, a STD engine Omnimech is the perfect candidate for becoming the ECM assault that the Clans need. It all makes perfect sense to me, and while I don't know those things for sure, even without them, this mech can still laser vomit, and has good energy hardpoint layouts, and the arms don't go down to the groin like other humanoid Clan Omnimechs.

All my wishful thinking aside, don't be afraid, 54-61 damage of laser fire is nothing to scoff at!

Problem is, we have enough tonnage starved assaults, even if the Turkina is just another Whale, I'm beginning to prefer it, especially if it were for some reason to get more torso twist. 24 tons just means it has less tonnage to play with than the Executioner, and without MASC, its corner peaking is still going to leave something to be desired. If it got Banshee level torso mounts then that might be a slightly different story, but there is less Clan assaults like the Whale than the Exe/Gargles.

[Gas Guzzler]

LT. HARDCASE, on 12 January 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

To the people who what the Viper and Black Lanner:

Are you paying attention to the fact that each of them literally have ONE usable set of omnipods? Outside of the Viper A and the Black Lanner C, they have some of the worst omnipod configs possible. Pure trash.

The logical pick is the Huntsman, and consolation prize goes to the Phantom.

Coyotl is a good looking mech, would need some made up variants though.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 January 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

Problem is, we have enough tonnage starved assaults, even if the Turkina is just another Whale, I'm beginning to prefer it, especially if it were for some reason to get more torso twist. 24 tons just means it has less tonnage to play with than the Executioner, and without MASC, its corner peaking is still going to leave something to be desired. If it got Banshee level torso mounts then that might be a slightly different story, but there is less Clan assaults like the Whale than the Exe/Gargles.

The tonnage is a little deceiving because it has an extra DHS locked in, but yeah I know. You can still do the classic vomit build with enough double heat sinks which is respectable firepower, especially if its in a favorable location.

I just feel like the Turkina would be kind of boring, and its chance for getting an "X" factor is a lot lower. I have a feeling PGI would see the locked STD engine and give it something cool, like super structure quirks, or maybe even the ECM, where as the Turkina would literally just use cut and paste Dire Builds with some torso twist range.

Eh, ideally I'd take both. It is out of my hands anyway.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LT. HARDCASE, on 12 January 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

To the people who what the Viper and Black Lanner:

Are you paying attention to the fact that each of them literally have ONE usable set of omnipods?

5E, 2M or 5E, 4B or 9E doesn't really sound all that bad for a 40 tonner. Not sure where you got that it has bad options.

The BLanner can also run a 6E arm with ECM and be a slightly more fragile Wolverine.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 January 2016 - 03:10 PM.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 January 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

5E, 2M or 5E, 4B or 9E doesn't really sound all that bad for a 40 tonner. Not sure where you got that it has bad options.

my issue is on the Viper is the lack of free tonnage, 8.5t of pod space, she has all the weight savings she can have with an XL engine, FF and ES, her problem comes from the giant 320 xl engine and 8 fixed jj's... the Black Liner isn't as bad, having 13t of pod space, but again a massive 385xl engine in a 55t mech giving it a huge top speed to make lights worry, 118-ish kph run speed before speed tweek...

Me, I'd like the Coyotl, 15t of pod space, 280xl, DHS, Endo Steel and everything is a high mount, with a run speed of around 118kph, again respectable for a 40t

The problem for the Coyotl, is only two versions were ever produced, and she went out of production, as they replaced it with newer omni-mechs... likely the 'upgrade' that is the Viper....

looking at the production dates, that is likely what happened the Coyotl ended production in 2943, the Viper line began in 2940...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 12 January 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

my issue is on the Viper is the lack of free tonnage, 8.5t of pod space, she has all the weight savings she can have with an XL engine, FF and ES, her problem comes from the giant 320 xl engine and 8 fixed jj's... the Black Liner isn't as bad, having 13t of pod space, but again a massive 385xl engine in a 55t mech giving it a huge top speed to make lights worry, 118-ish kph run speed before speed tweek...

Me, I'd like the Coyotl, 15t of pod space, 280xl, DHS, Endo Steel and everything is a high mount, with a run speed of around 118kph, again respectable for a 40t

The problem for the Coyotl, is only two versions were ever produced, and she went out of production, as they replaced it with newer omni-mechs... likely the 'upgrade' that is the Viper....

looking at the production dates, that is likely what happened the Coyotl ended production in 2943, the Viper line began in 2940...

That's because speed and all the JJs is more important in TT than it is here so it really is an upgrade (4 ERML and a TComp is incredibly powerful on an 8/12/8). I wouldn't say it is overengined either since the optimal engine for a 40 tonner floats between 295-325. The main problem is the number of JJs it has locked.

I wouldn't mind the Coyotl because it is better for MWO, but it is considered extinct and really I want to see what Alex can do to make the Viper actually cool looking.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 January 2016 - 03:18 PM.

[Coralld]

Metus regem, on 12 January 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

my issue is on the Viper is the lack of free tonnage, 8.5t of pod space, she has all the weight savings she can have with an XL engine, FF and ES, her problem comes from the giant 320 xl engine and 8 fixed jj's... the Black Liner isn't as bad, having 13t of pod space, but again a massive 385xl engine in a 55t mech giving it a huge top speed to make lights worry, 118-ish kph run speed before speed tweek...

Me, I'd like the Coyotl, 15t of pod space, 280xl, DHS, Endo Steel and everything is a high mount, with a run speed of around 118kph, again respectable for a 40t

The problem for the Coyotl, is only two versions were ever produced, and she went out of production, as they replaced it with newer omni-mechs... likely the 'upgrade' that is the Viper....

looking at the production dates, that is likely what happened the Coyotl ended production in 2943, the Viper line began in 2940...

Pretty much this. The Viper and Black Lanner are starved for weight, where as the Huntsman has 23.5 tons of pod space avalible even with max armor and locked JJ.
The only real thing going against the Huntsman is that Its tro art is ugly to be sure, however, I do reacall one of the guys on NGNG who does the comics drew up a Huntsman for one of the comics and it look amazing, now imagine what Alex can do.

Edited by Coralld, 12 January 2016 - 03:51 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Coralld, on 12 January 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

where as the Huntsman has 23.5 tons of pod space avalible even with max armor and locked JJ.

And pretty much a worse Hunchback IIC. The only thing the Huntsman can do that the Hunchie IIC can't is mix ballistics and energy well, which is kind of a meh right now since the Gauss nerf.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 January 2016 - 03:21 PM.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 January 2016 - 03:17 PM, said:

That's because speed and all the JJs is more important in TT than it is here so it really is an upgrade (4 ERML and a TComp is incredibly powerful on an 8/12/8). I wouldn't say it is overengined either since the optimal engine for a 40 tonner floats between 295-325. The main problem is the number of JJs it has locked.

I wouldn't mind the Coyotl because it is better for MWO, but it is considered extinct and really I want to see what Alex can do to make the Viper actually cool looking.

I know how important JJ's and a good cheap on weight TC are in TT, I've also run Vipers a lot as I keep a Supernova Trinary of Ghost Bears on the shelf, as well as run Coyotl Primes and A's and I have found that the Coyotls often performed better, the A actually has more cooling than it needs, as well as having 7 JJ's.

[Coralld]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 January 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

And pretty much a worse Hunchback IIC. The only thing the Huntsman can do that the Hunchie IIC can't is mix ballistics and energy well, which is kind of a meh right now since the Gauss nerf.

That sounds more opinion rather than fact. But what we do know is that omni mechs who are starved for weight suck, witch is why the Huntsman is the better option.

Edited by Coralld, 12 January 2016 - 04:18 PM.

[MechB Kotare]

Wintersdark, on 11 January 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

The Turkina would be flat out awful in MWO. Something less maneuverable than the Dire Wolf, with nothing to show for it. Yay.

Except for being 95 JJ capable clan assault mech with high mounted weapon slots. Also i dont see a reason why 95 tonner should be less maneuverable than 100 ton Dire Wolf.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 12 January 2016 - 03:38 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

MechB Kotare, on 12 January 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

Except for being 95 JJ capable clan assault mech with high mounted weapon slots. Also i dont see a reason why 95 tonner should be less maneuverable than 100 ton Dire Wolf.

Its maneuverability would be more or less identical, the only difference being slightly more hops (~19m instead of the Dire's 18m). Where do you see the high slots?

[MechB Kotare]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 03:41 PM, said:

Its maneuverability would be more or less identical, the only difference being slightly more hops (~19m instead of the Dire's 18m). Where do you see the high slots?

What are you talking about, its pretty obvious when browsing images. It has got high mounted missile slots for sure, and, despite of how clan omnipods work in MWO, im guessing it would recieve at least some energy slots in its torsos.

[Wintersdark]

Again, there is a difference between being able to conform to the current meta, which will not last forever, and just being bad. Being horrifically tonnage starved can sometimes be worked around for laser vomit, but totally breaks everything else. We have a lot of tonnage starved mechs, and most aren't very good because of it. Many due to simply lacking the right es/FF upgrades or having locked JJ/etc.

Many of these mechs are merely passable as laser vomit machines (but still not better than existing ones) but if the meta shifts from laser vomit become instantly garbage.

The huntsman would be highly resistant to meta shifts with a wide variety of omnipods and the correct upgrades. It brings build options - lots of build options - that simply don't exist with the Hunchback. As well, a very strong probability of much better hitboxes.

MechB Kotare, on 12 January 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

Except for being 95 JJ capable clan assault mech with high mounted weapon slots. Also i dont see a reason why 95 tonner should be less maneuverable than 100 ton Dire Wolf.

MWO. Maneuverability is determined entirely by speed. Same speed as Direwolf, same maneuverability.

[Wintersdark]

The turkey is probably the best option, don't get me wrong. But its basically another Direwolf. Same build options, effectively the same tonnage, same maneuverability. It could end up a bit better with high hardpoints, but that just puts the DWF in the trash as the best option.

It doesn't bring anything new to the table, or even different.

Or it'll have worse hitboxes and just suck, going into the trash itself.

Neither option is good.

[Gas Guzzler]

MechB Kotare, on 12 January 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

What are you talking about, its pretty obvious when browsing images. It has got high mounted missile slots for sure, and, despite of how clan omnipods work in MWO, im guessing it would recieve at least some energy slots in its torsos.

Yeah so it might have some high torso energy slots.

Dire has 4 and then a 5th in the head.

I'm just saying, builds would be more or less cut and paste Dire builds, possible with some extra torso twist range or something. Is that bad? Not necessarily, just a little boring.

If it was up to me, I'd want both the Kingfisher and the Turkey.

[MechB Kotare]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 04:00 PM, said:

Yeah so it might have some high torso energy slots.

Dire has 4 and then a 5th in the head.

I'm just saying, builds would be more or less cut and paste Dire builds, possible with some extra torso twist range or something. Is that bad? Not necessarily, just a little boring.

If it was up to me, I'd want both the Kingfisher and the Turkey.

We are talking about high mounted, in terms of those placed above your head right? While DW truelly has high mounts in torsos, aside of its head energy slot, none are above its cockpit.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 12 January 2016 - 04:05 PM.

[Overlord Neb]

BLood Asp BLOOD ASP BLOOD ASP BLOOD ASP BLOOD ASP!!!!

[Gas Guzzler]

MechB Kotare, on 12 January 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

We are talking about high mounted, in terms of those placed above your head right? While DW truelly has high mounts in torsos, aside of its head energy slot, none are above its cockpit.

Mehhhh those -S side torso energy hardpoints are pretty ideal. I guess they could be a little higher. But its not like putting a Gauss in the shoulder is a good idea, even if it is higher than the head.

Eh. We may find out next week.