829 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 January 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

yeah, but how much tonnage for weapons? 24 tons vs 42?

I mean Turkina is baby Direwolf..... Kingfisher is worse Warhawk?

Just not seeing the appeal to either.

I'd be happier if it was a Clan Battlemech pack

I suppose, but the Kingfisher would likely have better hardpoint placement and wouldn't be a barn (better hitboxes)... I don't know, I guess there isn't a HUGE appeal, but I was hoping for a few more Omnis, and this is probably the best Omni assault option in my opinion.

[sycocys]

Again its sad to have to mention that he could actually participate in this discussion in his own forums.....

Also how are we only advancing 1 year for 3 years of game time?

[topgun505]

According to my list these are the possibles:

Battle Cobra - M
Black Lanner -M
Fire Moth - L
Huntsman (Nobori-nin) - M
Kingfisher -A
Linebacker - H
Lupus - H
Mongrel (Grendel) - M
Night Gyr - H
Phantom - M
Pouncer -M
Stooping Hawk - M
Viper (Dragonfly) - M

So really only one choice for lights and assaults so only have multiple options for the other 2 classes.

Maybe the Stooping Hawk for something that might be able to rival the Stormcrow.

And the Night Gyr for a hard hitting heavy.

[0bsidion]

topgun505, on 12 January 2016 - 11:01 AM, said:

According to my list these are the possibles:

Battle Cobra - M
Black Lanner -M
Fire Moth - L
Huntsman (Nobori-nin) - M
Kingfisher -A
Linebacker - H
Lupus - H
Mongrel (Grendel) - M
Night Gyr - H
Phantom - M
Pouncer -M
Stooping Hawk - M
Viper (Dragonfly) - M

So really only one choice for lights and assaults so only have multiple options for the other 2 classes.

Maybe the Stooping Hawk for something that might be able to rival the Stormcrow.

And the Night Gyr for a hard hitting heavy.

You're forgetting Fire Falcon for the light options. And what would make me choose Stooping Hawk over all of the medium options is it just plain looks bad ***.

Sadly, I think I'm the only one that voted for the Lupus, which is odd I think, because it brings everything you could possibly want in a heavy to the table and manages to look wicked doing it. But noooo everyone is all Night Gyr this and Line Backer that, weirdos

I'm pretty neutral on the two front running omni assaults, the Kingfisher and Turkina. The Kingfisher looks weird, but would be OK I guess, and the Turkina, well, it also looks weird but the loadouts look pretty vicious.

Edited by 0bsidion, 12 January 2016 - 11:28 AM.

[BoldricKent]

Stooping Hawk is one of best looking omnimech, but being developed by Blood Spirits, who ware rather solo players with
few resources....it has a standard engine !! By the current omnimech restriction, it would broke the shell...clanners would complain about nerf and DoA, inner ones would raise hell if restriction would be lifted....so its no win situation.
But i would buy it in a sec...with the standard engine, different but solid as a rock, best Spirits mech anyway (Stalking Spider wasnt bad either...)

Longshoot : why dont standard components, engines get some toughness bonuses, beside crit space savings, since per lore they are much more rugged ...

Edited by BoldricKent, 12 January 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[topgun505]

Fire Falcon is 3056

Technically only the Turkina prime was out in that timeline, the rest didn't appear until 3058 so it theoretically should not be available.

Edited by topgun505, 12 January 2016 - 12:11 PM.

[Dagorlad13]

BoldricKent, on 12 January 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

Stooping Hawk is one of best looking omnimech, but being developed by Blood Spirits, who ware rather solo players with
few resources....it has a standard engine !! By the current omnimech restriction, it would broke the shell...clanners would complain about nerf and DoA, inner ones would raise hell if restriction would be lifted....so its no win situation.
But i would buy it in a sec...with the standard engine, different but solid as a rock, best Spirits mech anyway (Stalking Spider wasnt bad either...)

Longshoot : why dont standard components, engines get some toughness bonuses, beside crit space savings, since per lore they are much more rugged ...

Engines are already crit-proof, what more do you want? Do IS pilots really need any more crutches?

[0bsidion]

topgun505, on 12 January 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Fire Falcon is 3056

Technically only the Turkina prime was out in that timeline, the rest didn't appear until 3058 so it theoretically should not be available.

According to Sarna, the production year for the Fire Falcon is 3052. Plus Russ insinuated there is some leeway in the timeline if the mechs weapons and equipment are already in the game. The Turkina also is listed as having a production year of 3052, plus uses currently available tech.

[Wintersdark]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

Well, id disagree that 65 is fast enough for a heavy - since the skill tree nerf id argue thats about minimum for an Assault, at least one that doesnt get any agility quirks. Night Gyr will go 70kph though, which is slow but passable. Ideal engine for a 75 tonner in MWO is somewhere between a 325 and a 350 (not that any Omni will have that, due to fixed engines that comply with TT construction rules)

This is a pretty subjective argument. It's reasonably valid, for many folks a 300 rated engine is a bit small for a 75 tonner; but at 70kph it's only a little slow for a heavy, by any objective comparison.

On the other hand, it differentiates it more from the Timberwolf. A 350 rated engine would be pointless, it'd essentially be a Timberwolf. 325 would be pretty decent, but going to a 300 makes them feel and handle very differently and nets a massive 11 ton payload difference, vastly opening build options.

Maybe not worth it for the current meta, but definitely one that allows a lot more interesting options, particularly once you start considering ballistics.

The Night Gyr may not be for you personally, but it's absolutely the most interesting Heavy option. The only other reasonable option, in terms of bringing a good Clan Mech to the table that can offer something we don't already have, is perhaps the Woodsman.

IronClaws, on 12 January 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Engines are already crit-proof, what more do you want? Do IS pilots really need any more crutches?

Because a tremendous number of suggested mechs have standard engines. The current game design ensures that this totally breaks the clan mechs, because why in gods name would you take a Clan Standard engine over a ClanXL?

But the IS vs. Clan balance is done considering Clan mechs running ClamXL's. So a Clan mech with a Standard engine is nerfed in all sorts of ways because of the strength of a ClamXL it's not running.

[Widowmaker1981]

Wintersdark, on 12 January 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

On the other hand, it differentiates it more from the Timberwolf. A 350 rated engine would be pointless, it'd essentially be a Timberwolf. 325 would be pretty decent, but going to a 300 makes them feel and handle very differently and nets a massive 11 ton payload difference, vastly opening build options.

Maybe not worth it for the current meta, but definitely one that allows a lot more interesting options, particularly once you start considering ballistics.

The Night Gyr may not be for you personally, but it's absolutely the most interesting Heavy option. The only other reasonable option, in terms of bringing a good Clan Mech to the table that can offer something we don't already have, is perhaps the Woodsman.

Oh i completely agree that the Gyr is the best heavy option - i said slow but passable and all the others are terrible. Its also the ONLY timeline appropriate Omnimech i would consider spending real money on (and then only if the artwork inspires confidence in hitboxes / hardpoint placement)

my point is sod Omnis, IIC pack with griffin, rifleman and marauder, please.

and a 350XL is 4.5 tons lighter than a 375, for a 6 kph loss in speed. With the heatsink thats almost as much tonnage as Endo Steel and Ferro combined give the Timber. Its a huge deal. Engines past 350 are niche because of the exponential tonnage increase, and for energy boats only.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 12 January 2016 - 12:56 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

topgun505, on 12 January 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Fire Falcon is 3056

Technically only the Turkina prime was out in that timeline, the rest didn't appear until 3058 so it theoretically should not be available.

Master Unit List says otherwise for both, good resource that really has the last say on this sort of matter
http://www.masteruni...to=&SubTypes=45

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

Oh i completely agree that the Gyr is the best heavy option - i said slow but passable and all the others are terrible.

my point is sod Omnis, clan battlemech pack with vapor eagle, black python and marauder, please.

FTFY

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 January 2016 - 12:55 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

Oh i completely agree that the Gyr is the best heavy option - i said slow but passable and all the others are terrible. Its also the ONLY timeline appropriate Omnimech i would consider spending real money on (and then only if the artwork inspires confidence in hitboxes / hardpoint placement)

my point is sod Omnis, IIC pack with griffin, rifleman and marauder, please.

and a 350XL is 4.5 tons lighter than a 375, for a 6 kph loss in speed. With the heatsink thats almost as much tonnage as Endo Steel and Ferro combined give the Timber. Its a huge deal. Engines past 350 are niche because of the exponential tonnage increase, and for energy boats only.

I'm with you here. I think the Huntsman and Night Gyr bring good stuff to Clans, but otherwise the options are so limited that it's very likely a huge waste of time. Most of the options people suggest here are flat out bad too - fine for the collector (and I am one of those!) but mechs that would be objectively bad in MWO... and we know, from hard experience, that bad clan mechs added aren't going to get quirks to fix them.

On the other hand, there's a hell of a lot of good Clan Battlemech and IIC options. Another IIC pack, or just a misc. Battlemech pack, there's LOTS of good options there.

[Widowmaker1981]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 January 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

Master Unit List says otherwise for both, good resource that really has the last say on this sort of matter
http://www.masteruni...to=&SubTypes=45


FTFY

Nah, the medium HAS to be a 40 tonner imo. Clans dont have one. And i think the Rifleman IIC will be > Black Python due to high mounts, but thats personal opinon and it could be scuppered by low engine cap.

Wintersdark, on 12 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

I'm with you here. I think the Huntsman and Night Gyr bring good stuff to Clans, but otherwise the options are so limited that it's very likely a huge waste of time. Most of the options people suggest here are flat out bad too - fine for the collector (and I am one of those!) but mechs that would be objectively bad in MWO... and we know, from hard experience, that bad clan mechs added aren't going to get quirks to fix them.

On the other hand, there's a hell of a lot of good Clan Battlemech and IIC options. Another IIC pack, or just a misc. Battlemech pack, there's LOTS of good options there.

Tbh i dont see what the Huntsman offers that the Hunchie IIC doesnt already do better.

[Gas Guzzler]

I change my medium vote from the Viper to the Coyotl.

Its a 40 tonner but doesn't suffer from over engine syndrome.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 January 2016 - 01:05 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Nah, the medium HAS to be a 40 tonner imo. Clans dont have one.

Then it is really a toss up, because the Griffin IIC really only does one thing, just like the IS Griffin, and while it would be nice to see a 40 ton Splat Griffin, I really want a Viper jumping all over the place :3

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

And i think the Rifleman IIC will be > Black Python due to high mounts, but thats personal opinon and it could be scuppered by low engine cap.

You also forgot the iconic hat which it will have in some form which is basically a giant shoot me sign just like the fin on the IS Rifleman and Jagermech.

As you pointed out as well, the low engine cap will suck, not as bad as with the Night Gyr since you can shove a bigger one in it, but it will suffer. Keep in mind that both have some high mounts.

[Wintersdark]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Tbh i dont see what the Huntsman offers that the Hunchie IIC doesnt already do better.

Mixed loadouts. The Hunchie is great at one specific thing (be it missiles, ballistics, or lasers), but it's terrible at any mixing. The Huntsman allows mixed loadouts. Probably better hitboxes, too, but that's hard to tell... But at the cost of high weapon mounts and being better at single-weapon type loadouts.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

*shakes fist*

Does anyone have an omni-pod hardpoint breakdown for the Turkey?

Here is my own spreadsheet:

[BoldricKent]

IronClaws, on 12 January 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Engines are already crit-proof, what more do you want? Do IS pilots really need any more crutches?

My suggestion was more pointed to Clan mech and really no engine choice for them (there isnt std/xl clan engine dilemma),
but with advancing year/tech/weapons...let say powercreep aint going away, so to offset increasing alphas...you need to do
the same with endurance, for the whole specter of mech.
Standard structure, armor doesnt really give you any edge or counterbalance while upgrading... and you have quite a few Omnimech with locked standard equipment, that could benefit form such quirks.
As for IS/Clan balance (althought thats off topic)...giving equipment, chassies battle value and use that for matchmaking,
could be possible solution, since we are stuck with equal number.

[topgun505]

Interesting. They must have done some updates to timeline info compared to when my database was last updated. Ok. Fair enough.

Frankly I wouldn't want to see the Turkina anyway as the arms on it are freakin huge and would never survive long.

A thought. Maybe instead of spending time, money, and energy on making new mechs they can make some new maps or update existing ones or pour the resources into a new game mode or improving CW. Just sayin ...

[Gas Guzzler]

topgun505, on 12 January 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

Interesting. They must have done some updates to timeline info compared to when my database was last updated. Ok. Fair enough.

Frankly I wouldn't want to see the Turkina anyway as the arms on it are freakin huge and would never survive long.

A thought. Maybe instead of spending time, money, and energy on making new mechs they can make some new maps or update existing ones or pour the resources into a new game mode or improving CW. Just sayin ...

Do those things create a direct revenue stream to pay the rent, power bills, internet, server costs, employee salaries, etc?

Do mech artists and modelers have a role in game modes or CW?