829 replies to this topic

[0bsidion]

Kyrie, on 12 January 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

I would be simply shocked if Piranha did not make it into PGI's game. ;-)

I think the Piranha should get it's own pack like the Urbie. And it is PGI's namesake after all so it makes sense for them to get it in the game.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 12 January 2016 - 07:38 AM, said:

Incidentally, this is my argument for the Turkina over the Kingfisher. I do want to stress that having to choose between both Omni assault options reminds me of the winner of the Special Olympics. No matter who won, they are still "special." (Word filter will not let me use the clinical term.)

The Kingfisher is an over-engined (STANDARD engine) assault that makes the horrible mistake of also taking Endo and Ferro - again, on an assault mech. It has exactly 27 critical slots available, which is absolutely pathetic, and only around 24 tons of room to fill it. It is a very cool, flavorful assault, but it just is not a good one. It simply gives up too much tonnage for an unnecessarily heavy engine. The compounding of it by taking the ferro and endo options is just more salt on the wound. However, in the extremely off chance that PGI decides to give the Kingfisher an ECM option, we will just end up with a 90-ton Hellbringer with even fewer critical slots to fill.

By comparison the Turkina is as slow as dirt and will handle poorly if the Direwolf is any indication. However, it does bring around 45 tons of pod space - this is with the jump jets, mind you. Part of what makes the Whale so terrible is its abysmal torso twist radius and barn door-esque design. Seeing as the Direwolf is afflicted with both torso twist limitations and a terrible profile, it wouldn't be hard to beat the Whale in these departments. I mean, I look at the King Crab as a more Turkina-like body plan and potential twist capability. Wide, but flat from the front minus missile pods, but lots of surface area when viewed from above. Unlike the Kingfisher, 45 tons of pod space and 42 critical slots means you can load some serious firepower in it. Not DWF levels, but extremely, extremely close. If they make the Turkina actually have a torso twist and a solid profile, the mech might actually be superior to the whale, IMO. You are certainly not giving up a heck of a lot of survivability by being 5 tons lighter.

One mech has speed but no crit space and free tonnage. One mech is extremely slow, but packs a stupid amount of pod space for weapon systems. The Kingfisher, to me, is an inferior Executioner at a 5 ton discount, whereas the Turkina is a potentially inferior Dire Wolf at a 5 ton discount. Survivability only gets you so far, but firepower in the right hands can mitigate or eliminate enemies before they have a chance to bring their survivability into play.

TL;DR: If the Turkina can torso twist properly, unlike the Dire Wolf, and has a profile similar to the King Crab, I think it will be fine, but I find it harder to justify the Kingfisher's flaws.

Edit:

Addendum: I am all for cool mechs over good mechs, but only once we have enough good mechs to have actual, competitive choice among our tonnage brackets. The IS is at that point where the Rule Of Cool can reign. Clans, however, have far less available choices. I'd like to see the Kingfisher, each and every Clan 40 ton mech no matter how tonnage limited or engine limited they are, and even the Crossbow. But not yet. We don't exactly have a good stable of mechs to choose from yet, outside of the absolute best performers. Once we have some competitive choices within the tonnage brackets, then the rule of cool is fine by me.

Whoa I missed this. Yes, it has 27 available slots (3 hardwired DHS outside the engine), but that is enough for 4 cER MLs, 2 cLPLs, 24 DHS and ECM with a couple left over. With armor stripping maybe an extra DHS could be squeezed in as well. It would also likely have better hardpoint placement than the Executioner when looking at the sarna art.

I will concede that I forgot that they could give the Turkina better torso twist range. That would be helpful I suppose.

I guess I wouldn't be disappointed with either, but I think the Kingfisher could be more interesting, and is a better candidate for the ECM... its a STD engine omni, its like the best candidate for ECM because it wouldn't be OP with it, and a Clan assault with ECM would be nice.

[Widowmaker1981]

Metus regem, on 12 January 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

Warhammer IIC? she's a mean, mean girl too....

Yeah its decent, but outclassed by the MAD, i think. Wouldnt complain at the Whammy.

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

Timber Wolf guns and ECM and Assault armor doesn't sound so bad... its only 15 tons heavier than a Timber too. I don't know, those other mechs sound cool, but I feel like the Fisher would be the best fit for a Wave 4... TBH, Stone Rhino and MAD-IIC would be good single mech packs. Bane I could do with out.. its just too much. I mean it would be cool, but its pretty unlikely that they will add it right now.

Yeah, with ECM it would probably be decent to good, but i find it hugely unlikely PGI would give it ECM. Ill also agree its the best timeline appropriate Omni assault, because the Turkey is too slow, like the Dire.

However, he didnt say it has to be Omnimechs, and the fact is my wallet is shut for any Omni mech pack i can think of, the only timeline appropriate Omni im even slightly interested in is the Night Gyr, which i MIGHT a la carte if concept art looks promising for hardpoint placement / hitboxes.. which im sceptical of.

IIC pack with the below mechs would be a take my money situation. Im done buying bad mechs.

Light: Wolfhound IIC / Locust IIC / Commando IIC / Urbanmech IIC**
Medium: Griffin IIC (40 tons, fills the hole)
Heavy: Rifleman IIC
Assault: Marauder IIC

**dont care, probs locust cos we have good 30 and 35 tonners. Wolfhound is best though with ECM and 35 tons.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 12 January 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[Rekkon]

My omni pack would be:

Fire Moth
Fills the 20 ton slot and gives us one of the last two missing 3050 designs. Nice high mounted arms, and just fun for anyone wanting to say "frak it, speed slider to maximum." Plus we can say "moth to flame" whenever one runs out to die in the first two minutes of a match. Strip the MASC for pod space if it is too fast. We will still fly. Shared legs with the Mist Lynx might reduce development effort. 6.5 tons of pod space stock; 6.0 at max efficient armor if MASC is removed

Viper
Fills the 40 ton slot and gives us the last of the missing 3050 designs. It is short on pod space, but I think it would be a blast to play. As fast as the Ice Ferret and jumps better than the Arctic Cheetah. All the mobility. And unlike the Mist Lynx, it has enough hardpoints to laser boat effectively. Quad MGs also possible if you like that sort of thing. Shared legs with the Nova might reduce development effort. 8.5 tons of pod space stock; it is already at max efficient armor.

Night Gyr
I do not feel as strongly on this one, but at least it would give us something a little different in the 75 ton slot, namely a jump capable machine with more pod space than the Timber Wolf. The tradeoff in hardpoint location and speed may well not be worth it, but at least the option would be there. Configurations with at least 9 energy hardpoints possible (6 ballistic; 4 missile). 38 tons of pod space stock; 37.5 after max armor.

Turkina
As others have noted, not a lot of great assault options left. This one basically gives us a slower Executioner with 15.5 more ton of pod space stock (42 tons; already at max efficient armor).

Honorable Mentions

Fire Falcon: A much more usable 25 tonner than the Mist Lynx. Trades jump capability for additional speed, 10 tons of pod space (9.5 after max efficient armor) and sufficient hardpoint (max configurations can provide 8 energy, 4 ballistic or 3 missile). I would rather get the Fire Moth but would certainly not be unhappy with this.

Piranha: Non-omni 20 tonner with speed like the Jenner IIC. Boat all the machine guns. 6.5 tons of pod space stock (already at max efficient armor) which you can boost to 7.0 by switching to ferro. Lacks canon variants.

Pouncer: Another contender for the empty 40 ton slot, this one is basically a jump-capable Adder. Same speed, similar configurations. 15.5 tons of pod space stock; 14.5 after max efficient armor. Not a bad mech; I just feel we get a better diversity boon from the Viper.

Mongrel: A 45 tonner that moves like the Mist Lynx but has 13.5 tons of pod space stock (already at max efficient armor, though giving up .5 tons to go full max is not that wasteful). Gives up a bit of speed (moves like Mist Lynx) to be better than the Ice Ferret in basically every other way. Better than the Viper in a lot of ways too, though less iconic and not "first wave." Looks good.

Huntsman: Same movement profile as the Nova but uses Endo to get 23.5 tons of pod space stock (already at max armor). This is even more than the Stormcrow. Basically obsoletes the Nova in every way except for boating a ton of small weapons.

Stone Rhino and Kodiak: I not immune to the draw of these mechs, and I think one of them would be a better assault option than the Turkina. Being non-omnis we would have a lot of freedom to tune their movement profiles (Kodiak would have max engine cap, and the Stone Rhino can jump).

[SgtMagor]

would like to see the modified Daishi=aka Turkina by Alex.

[Ultimax]

So many tears about power creep and faction-fanboi bullcrap I decided to rescind my earlier vote and tweeted this to Russ.


Night Gyr / Madcat MK II / Blood Asp / Bane

Edited by Ultimatum X, 12 January 2016 - 09:51 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

0bsidion, on 12 January 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

Fair enough, and it is a thread about what people want to see in the next pack. I don't have to agree with everyone on the thread but ultimately majority will probably rule, unless of course PGI decides to go their own way.

It looks like it'll be close between Night Gyr, Line Backer, or Woodsman for the heavy slot. Personally I'd cast my vote for the Woodsman or Night Gyr, and wouldn't touch the Line Backer with a 10' pole.

Mediums looks like Black Lanner, Huntsman, Mongrel, and Phantom got multiple votes. I think the Swooping Hawk looks cooler than all of them, but all told I think it's a close call between Black Lanner and Huntsman getting the most votes.

As much as I like how the Blood Asp looks, it's 7 years out of the timeline and the Prime is packing heavy mediums. Two strikes against it. Aside from that, I think Kingfisher is pretty far ahead of anything else in the Omni assaults line up.

The Fire Falcon seems to be the only one of my choices that got multiple votes. It appears it might be a tossup between that and the Fire Moth.


Technically speaking, Mechs are content. Just because you don't happen to want that content doesn't negate that. Also, new mechs don't stand in the way of getting other types of content because they're different departments with different employees working on them.

And since Mechs are the main way this game makes money, they actually facilitate getting the other types of content, because it's got to be paid for somehow. So all in all your post makes very little sense.

yeah, I have a feeling while many here want to pick the Kingfisher because "different is cool" I have a feeling it would end up being the Clan Pack with the LEAST Assault Level packs sold, even beyond mr Gargles.

Because what sounds cool in "forum discussion land", especially amongst many players who aren't actually buying anything anyhow (not saying all, just that many have sworn off purchases) and what sounds like a good value when it's time to grab the CC? Tend to change drastically. At least with the Crossbow, it's buried in the pack so if one wants the assault, they buy it, too, probably.

I can only imagine the sales disaster it would be though if BOTH the Crossbow and Kingfisher made it in the same pack.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 January 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

yeah, I have a feeling while many here want to pick the Kingfisher because "different is cool" I have a feeling it would end up being the Clan Pack with the LEAST Assault Level packs sold, even beyond mr Gargles.

It would be easy to justify another 30 dollars if it had ECM..

And you have to admit, it is the most "fair" assault to add ECM to, and the justification is there with the F variant, just have to swap the HAG 30 for a Gauss rifle and more ammo or armor or something.

[Kristian Radoulov]

My Vote: Firemoth, Viper, Night Gyr, Turkina.

[Gas Guzzler]

Kristian Radoulov, on 12 January 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

My Vote: Firemoth, Viper, Night Gyr, Turkina.

*shakes fist*

Does anyone have an omni-pod hardpoint breakdown for the Turkey?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 January 2016 - 10:26 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Why not just give us all the mediums

Viper (40T), Mongrel (45T), Huntsman (50T), Black Lanner (55T)
1 of each tonnage in the medium class. Make us medium pilots super happy.
Could even give us a Saber-esque package including the Stooping Hawk (55T) and the Pouncer (40T) just to make us super happy.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 January 2016 - 10:30 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

It would be easy to justify another 30 dollars if it had ECM..

And you have to admit, it is the most "fair" assault to add ECM to, and the justification is there with the F variant, just have to swap the HAG 30 for a Gauss rifle and more ammo or armor or something.

that's assuming PGI would put ECM there, which is a HUGE assumption. Since there's no actual timeline variants that mount it, and it's been quite sometime since PGI added ECM to a chassis "because". Heck there are dozens of existing mechs that SHOULD have ecm available by that reasoning, starting with the Nova and Summoner for the Clans.

It's pure speculation to the point of wishful thinking that they would. Personally, I feel that anyone who is pushing for something based on "wouldn't it be cool" or "but what if????" falls into that category "a fool and his money are soon parted.

If people are voting for mechs for any reason other than what the mech actually IS, now, It's pretty dang foolish.

Would it make it more appealing? Perhaps, but that's a pretty big "what if".

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

*shakes fist*

Does anyone have an omni-pod hardpoint breakdown for the Turkey?

http://www.solaris7....nfo.asp?ID=3561
feel free to make one?
RA-P (2E)
LA-P (2B)
RT-P(1M)
LT-P (1M)
-------------------------------------------------------
RA-A (1B)
LA-A (1B)
RT-A (1M)
LT-A (1M)
--------------------------------------------------------
RA-B (2E)
LA-B(2E)
RT-B (1E)
LT-B (1E)
CT-B (1E)
H-B (1E)
----------------------------------------------------------
RA-C (2E)
LA-C (1B)
RT-C (2B, 1M, 1E) assuming leg flamer gets moved to torso
LT-C (3E) assuming leg flamer gets moved to torso

the D & H both make it more interesting, but of course contain off limits tech.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 January 2016 - 10:54 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 January 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

that's assuming PGI would put ECM there, which is a HUGE assumption. Since there's no actual timeline variants that mount it, and it's been quite sometime since PGI added ECM to a chassis "because". Heck there are dozens of existing mechs that SHOULD have ecm available by that reasoning, starting with the Nova and Summoner for the Clans.

It's pure speculation to the point of wishful thinking that they would. Personally, I feel that anyone who is pushing for something based on "wouldn't it be cool" or "but what if????" falls into that category "a fool and his money are soon parted.

If people are voting for mechs for any reason other than what the mech actually IS, now, It's pretty dang foolish.

Would it make it more appealing? Perhaps, but that's a pretty big "what if".


http://www.solaris7....nfo.asp?ID=3561
feel free to make one?

Yeah you are right, it is wishful thinking, I'm just trying to inception them into doing it!

And as far as adding ECM "just because", see the Tempest Archer hero mech.


Thanks for the link, snark is unnecessary though. Some people seem to have them already made, which is easier to post than it is for me to make one.. which I can do later tonight after work.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Yeah you are right, it is wishful thinking, I'm just trying to inception them into doing it!

And as far as adding ECM "just because", see the Tempest Archer hero mech.


Thanks for the link, snark is unnecessary though. Some people seem to have them already made, which is easier to post than it is for me to make one.. which I can do later tonight after work.

no snark, just giving you the link. I edited in the relevant timeline models on my OP

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 January 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

no snark, just giving you the link. I edited in the relevant timeline models on my OP

Ahh k thanks, sorry then, I thought snark was suggested with the "?"

Bishop Steiner, on 12 January 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

RA-P (2E)
LA-P (2B)
RT-P(1M)
LT-P (1M)
-------------------------------------------------------
RA-A (1B)
LA-A (1B)
RT-A (1M)
LT-A (1M)
--------------------------------------------------------
RA-B (2E)
LA-B(2E)
RT-B (1E)
LT-B (1E)
CT-B (1E)
H-B (1E)
----------------------------------------------------------
the D & H both make it more interesting, but of course contain off limits tech.

I predict that most will use only the B side torsos and head.....

You don't think we could do the C as well? Just convert the A-Pods into something else. That's what they did for the Hellbringer...

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 January 2016 - 10:48 AM.

[Rekkon]

Quote

Turkina hardpoints?

Funny you should ask, person I cannot quote because my browser hates the forum. I happen to have done this recently.

Prime
HD:
CT:
RT: 1 Missile
LT: 1 Missile
RA: 2 Energy
LA: 2 Ballistic

A
HD:
CT:
RT: 1 Missile
LT: 1 Missile
RA: 1 Ballistic
LA: 1 Ballistic

B
HD: 1 Energy
CT: 1 Energy
RT: 1 Energy
LT: 1 Energy
RA: 2 Energy
LA: 2 Energy

C
HD:
CT:
RT: 2 Ballistic, 1 Missile
LT: 2 Energy
RA: 2 Energy
LA: 1 Ballistic
RL: 1 Energy
LL: 1 Energy

D
HD: 1 Energy
CT: 1 Energy
RT:
LT:
RA: 2 Missile
LA: 2 Missile

Bear in mind that we would not get the D because it uses ATMs, and the C does wonky things with its legs (flamer and A-Pod in each one), so we likely only get Prime/A/B. This assumes no hardpoint inflation of course.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

Ahh k thanks, sorry then, I thought snark was suggested with the "?"



I predict that most will use only the B side torsos and head.....

You don't think we could do the C as well? Just convert the A-Pods into something else. That's what they did for the Hellbringer...

whoops, forgot the C, my bad

edited.. I think the C torsos become the most interesting assuming the flamers get moved to the respective torso, per norm.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 January 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Max of 5 ballistics if we got the C.

Could do Dual Gauss, 2 cLPL, 2 c ERMLs, 3 c ERMLs with the C.

Dual Gauss dual ER PPC as well.

So Dire Wolf builds, with some sacrifices, and can't do 6 UAC5s.

*shrugs*

compare to:

FupDup, on 07 September 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Something helpful:

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 January 2016 - 10:53 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 January 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Max of 5 ballistics if we got the C.

Could do Dual Gauss, 2 cLPL, 2 c ERMLs, 3 c ERMLs with the C.

Dual Gauss dual ER PPC as well.

So Dire Wolf builds, with some sacrifices, and can't do 6 UAC5s.

*shrugs*

compare to:

yeah, but how much tonnage for weapons? 24 tons vs 42?

I mean Turkina is baby Direwolf..... Kingfisher is worse Warhawk?

Just not seeing the appeal to either.

I'd be happier if it was a Clan Battlemech pack

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 January 2016 - 10:59 AM.

[reign]

Here is what I came up with for the Linebacker. (of course can shave the Left arm dead side it for another laser or 2)

I used Prime, A , B, C variants to come up with these combos. (as 3 +1 for early adopters)







High Torso Mounts, Low arms (but as you can see the arms are really only secondary.

Low to the ground, Fast for a Heavy mech.

Edited by reign, 12 January 2016 - 11:05 AM.