778 replies to this topic

[Hotthedd]

Bush Hopper, on 15 January 2016 - 06:31 AM, said:

I don't see the problem. PuGers get their wish, and CW pros can play their competetive game they soooooo crave. Win-Win

The problem is that MW:O was SUPPOSED to be a TEAM-based game. Catering to solos is another step in the wrong direction for said goal.

[wanderer]

I'd like enough people to actually play CW.

If you split queues like this, most Liao cycles won't have enough on one end or the other- we normally end up 50/50 queueing up.

If we force unit tagging, Davion can ghost drop all day with untagged accounts. Or vice versa.

[WarHippy]

Deathlike, on 14 January 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Actually, I'm rethinking the math.

I guess there will be still be players in units dropping solo, but I'm unsure what portion are in units that do this.

Well I'm in a unit and drop solo since everyone in my unit left the game for one reason or another. I can't speak to how many are like me, but we do exist.

All I know is this is just one more strike against PGI on a growing list of idiotic decisions they are making as of late as far as I am concerned.

[Wintersdark]

Wildstreak, on 15 January 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

But how will it be split. (Sorry if explained already, no time to read through 16 pages today.)
There are different ways to do it from the usual.

If you are a member of a unit, you drop in the unit queue. If you are NOT a member of a unit, you drop in the solo queue. It has no bearing on group status - so if you are a member of a unit but dropping solo, you're still dropping solo in the unit queue.

[Hotthedd]

WarHippy, on 15 January 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

Well I'm in a unit and drop solo since everyone in my unit left the game for one reason or another. I can't speak to how many are like me, but we do exist.

I am one. My "unit" has 3 or 4 people still playing MW:O. The rest are playing different games under the same tag. So many players have left this game that I am sure there are hundreds of us.

WarHippy, on 15 January 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

All I know is this is just one more strike against PGI on a growing list of idiotic decisions they are making as of late as far as I am concerned.

I know, right? It is as if they never had a plan for where this game would go.

[Wintersdark]

WarHippy, on 15 January 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

Well I'm in a unit and drop solo since everyone in my unit left the game for one reason or another. I can't speak to how many are like me, but we do exist.

All I know is this is just one more strike against PGI on a growing list of idiotic decisions they are making as of late as far as I am concerned.

under this system, even dropping solo you'll still drop in the unit queue. This just separated out those who are not in units - basically, the newbies and the people who don't want to be in units (and thus also don't want the extra rewards units can earn in CW)

[GRiPSViGiL]

Ya this is me cackling like Tito every time PGI does stuff that makes so much sense.

[Wintersdark]

WarHippy, on 15 January 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

Well I'm in a unit and drop solo since everyone in my unit left the game for one reason or another. I can't speak to how many are like me, but we do exist.

All I know is this is just one more strike against PGI on a growing list of idiotic decisions they are making as of late as far as I am concerned.

How is this bad for you?

[Sjorpha]

The announced split is NOT solo vs group.

It IS unit vs non-unit.

That means players with unit tags, whether grouped up or solo, will go in unit queue.

Players without unit tags, whether grouped up or solo, will go in the non-unit queue.

This is quite clear from the twitter discussions, just wanted to clear that up one extra time.

Is it a good idea? Hard to say, they seem to assume that unit tag=better player. Well there are many units with incredibly bad players on average who get stomped just as hard as pug teams the moment they face a decent unit. On the other hand the complete newbies are generally tagless, and it will be a blessing not having to stomp them anymore.

What I'm afraid of is that the bad units will get tired of being stomped by the good units and drop their tags, then the good won't get any matches and might have no choice but to drop their tags too just to get to play at all.

Rewards for unit queue better be very significantly much higher than the non-unit queue for this to work.

[WarHippy]

Wintersdark, on 15 January 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

under this system, even dropping solo you'll still drop in the unit queue. This just separated out those who are not in units - basically, the newbies and the people who don't want to be in units (and thus also don't want the extra rewards units can earn in CW)

I'm aware, and I still think it is stupid.

Wintersdark, on 15 January 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

How is this bad for you?

Because I want more and varied people playing which a split queue does not do and in fact makes worse. It also opens up the possibility of groups of random people having a larger influence on the map which in my opinion should never happen. CW should revolve entirely around units.

[Wintersdark]

WarHippy, on 15 January 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

I'm aware, and I still think it is stupid.
Because I want more and varied people playing which a split queue does not do and in fact makes worse. It also opens up the possibility of groups of random people having a larger influence on the map which in my opinion should never happen. CW should revolve entirely around units.

I understand the desire, but ultimately there just aren't enough. A unit-foxused CW hasn't worked well this far. There just isn't enough dedicated unit based players actively playing - there's substantially more solos in CW than premades groups.

I personally would really prefer CW be fully unit based too, but the reality of the situation is solo players are propping up CW now. And they're having a poor gameplay experience, so they're basically just subsidizing units. That isn't sustainable. Something has to give.

[Hotthedd]

Wintersdark, on 15 January 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

How is this bad for you?

Your question is misguided.

Unfortunately too many people ask this question and form their ideas and opinions around this question.

The question needs to be "How is this bad for THE GAME?"

I will answer both. For me, as a unit-tagged player who drops solo, I can never get the same "advantages" as a unit-less solo player. The "problem" of 12-man teams fighting 12 solos is now only a "problem" for those in my situation.

It is bad for the game, because it promotes selfish play and discourages joining a team.

Wintersdark, on 15 January 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

I understand the desire, but ultimately there just aren't enough. A unit-foxused CW hasn't worked well this far. There just isn't enough dedicated unit based players actively playing - there's substantially more solos in CW than premades groups.

I personally would really prefer CW be fully unit based too, but the reality of the situation is solo players are propping up CW now. And they're having a poor gameplay experience, so they're basically just subsidizing units. That isn't sustainable. Something has to give.

THAT is what PGI needs to fix!

Incentivise joining a team, not penalize it.

[Wintersdark]

Hotthedd, on 15 January 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

Incentivise joining a team, not penalize it.

They ARE incentivizing joining a unit. They're adding extra unit based rewards - including MC. We don't have all the details yet, but it's going to be discussed in the Town Hall and such.

[Wintersdark]

Hotthedd, on 15 January 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

I will answer both. For me, as a unit-tagged player who drops solo, I can never get the same "advantages" as a unit-less solo player. The "problem" of 12-man teams fighting 12 solos is now only a "problem" for those in my situation.

What advantages does a unit-less solo player get? Being able to pugstomp?

I play solo most of the time in CW as well, despite being a member of CGBI. I just play at weird times. It's good that they separate me from the newer, non-unit folks really.

So, I'll continue on like this, and my experience won't change dramatically. It may increase matchmaking times, because the raw pugs are gone, but those matches would have just been pug stomps anyways.

The only people who's experience will change significantly (ignoring folks who really just want to pug stomp) is newer folk and those who are not in units (There is a tremendous overlap here). THOSE people will have a much improved gameplay experience, though not being in a unit there's rewards they can't get.

[Johnny Z]

wanderer, on 15 January 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

Actually, it'll prove how many people want to play CW.

Most Liao factional queues -require- having PUGs to hit 12 on a reasonably rapid basis. This will either have us mass-detagging to be able to play or we'll end up being ghostdropped on constantly for wont of the proverbial nail.

Mass detagging will really depend n how good the rewards for units are. This is a key point for sure.

So many unknowns... I think its a bit early for anyone to get upset lol.

Wintersdark, on 15 January 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

What advantages does a unit-less solo player get? Being able to pugstomp?

I play solo most of the time in CW as well, despite being a member of CGBI. I just play at weird times. It's good that they separate me from the newer, non-unit folks really.

So, I'll continue on like this, and my experience won't change dramatically. It may increase matchmaking times, because the raw pugs are gone, but those matches would have just been pug stomps anyways.

The only people who's experience will change significantly (ignoring folks who really just want to pug stomp) is newer folk and those who are not in units (There is a tremendous overlap here). THOSE people will have a much improved gameplay experience, though not being in a unit there's rewards they can't get.

Will the regular queues be added to the faction map is the question. It sure looks like that may happen.

My guess that there would be no queue splitting was completely wrong so I'm just shooting blind here.

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 January 2016 - 07:33 AM.

[WarHippy]

Wintersdark, on 15 January 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

I understand the desire, but ultimately there just aren't enough. A unit-foxused CW hasn't worked well this far. There just isn't enough dedicated unit based players actively playing - there's substantially more solos in CW than premades groups.

I personally would really prefer CW be fully unit based too, but the reality of the situation is solo players are propping up CW now. And they're having a poor gameplay experience, so they're basically just subsidizing units. That isn't sustainable. Something has to give.

The fix for that it is to incentivize the joining of units not punish and/or make things harder on units. If someone truly has no desire to play in a unit ever that is fine, but don't expect huge rewards or any real impact on CW at all. Part of the reason units don't have the population around here is how crappy they have and continue to be treated. It is time for solo players(and I am one) to take a back seat for something and CW should be that something. To compare to other games CW is essentially your end game raiding it is by design not meant to be done as a solo player, and if you want to participate in that part of the game you need to be part of a group that is working together to participate.

[SteelMantis]

As a new player (returning old player thanks to Steam) I think this sounds like a great change.

As it stands now I have zero interest in CW. I have played as a pug vs. set teams enough in other games to never want to do it again. This change will see me joining the unit-less queue and adding to the number of people in the queue.

As far as a "shark" joining the queue, I don't care. Put one shark in the pool and there is a 50% chance that he'll be on my team. Even if he isn't I can deal with one good player. I'll still have a chance. But put all the new/solo players on my team (how it will likely end up now) and all the sharks on the other team and there is no chance.

If this goes live I might stick around longer then I was planning to.

[TexAce]

It all boils down to currently being:

Units: "We'd rather do pugstomps, than wait for a competetive match. Win-win for us, faster queue times, easier games"

Pugs: "We'd rather wait longer for a fair match than to be pugstomped. Or we aren't playing at all because roflstomps."


Phase 3 will probably be:

Pugs: Win-win for us. Less waiting, because more pugs willing to play the gamemode, and less unbalanced matches.

Units: Longer wait times, more balanced matches, higher rewards (MC, exclusives, mechs, modules, whatever, steady income per planet by gaining planet's ressources).

Edited by TexAce, 15 January 2016 - 08:35 AM.

[JaxRiot]

Hotthedd, on 15 January 2016 - 06:36 AM, said:

The problem is that MW:O was SUPPOSED to be a TEAM-based game. Catering to solos is another step in the wrong direction for said goal.

Its still a Team game. Its still going to be one team against another team and still one faction against another faction.

Its just not going to be Unit vs Pug anymore.

For people wanting a more organized team play environment, there will be Unit play.

For people wanting a more relaxed environment free from Unit politics, theyre will be the Non Unit play.

Plus they are adding in more rewards for Unit play.

More seems to be added than being taken away for Units

The only thing being taken away from Units is the ability to go against Pugs.

Sounds great to me

[TLBFestus]

Depending on the details it would appear that PGI is taking care of the majority of it's customers.

I can imagine a lot of happiness in the Solo queue for CW and many, many salty tears from the units that enjoyed feeding off them.