178 replies to this topic

[Aiden Skye]

3rd world mechwarrior problems.

Playing CW I frequently get over 1 mil cbills a match. Earnings are way higher than they used to b back in the day. You also get the academy rewards and cadet bonuses. You have it good now compared to back in the day!

[MarineTech]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

I'm a new player, you know why new players rarely post here? Because new players rarely every stay.

How would you know this if you are, in fact, the new player you claim to be?

[Herr Vorragend]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 06 February 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

It is extremely unlikely I will ever spend money in the current state of the game. I'm not going to spend money to ease the grind, I'll only spend money if there is no grind. I'm a league whale, and the reason that is, when I buy a champion, thats what I get, I got everything from that champion nothing more nothing less.

Let´s say goodbye quickly to you. You can´t compare those games, period. When you buy a MWO Champion you got the mech. It´s up to you to equip it like YOU want. Not every player likes the same loadouts so that´s pretty fair. As someone who played and enjoyed this game with all ups and downs during the past four years I strongly say no to PGI selling fully mastered, equipped and moduled mechs. It´s just not what this meant to be. You need to make your own experiences with the chassis and variants. You shouldn´t be able to simply press a button and have all abilities unlocked.

Johnny Gorbachev, on 06 February 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

In this game,if you buy a Jagermech, you don't really have its full potential until you buy another 2. Then you have to buy the engines, modules, grind the exp, ferro/heatsinks/thatotherarmorwhateveritscalled Sure we can grind it out, but do I really enjoy this game that much that I'm willing to tolerate such a non- consumer friendly economy? Not really. I'm not going to buy a character to make the grind last 2 months instead of 4. I want that character, and I don't want to be dragged to pay for other garbage just because Piranhas are hunting for more Whales.

"characters"

If you enjoy the game and play it a lot you´ll swim in CBills soon. (prem time, hero mechs and so on) But it seems that you don´t want that. You are never forced to spend money. You can achieve everything for free. Of course it´ll be a grind but hey...I got many friends who do it exactly like this.
What you want is the "all inclusive" packet for nothing. Using whales like I am as a cheap excuse is utterly ********. It´s my own decision if I give money to PGI or not. The prices are not low, but they are okay cause I had a lot of fun during the years playing MWO.
If you don´t like certain things here...no problem, play something else.

MWO definitely one of the f2p friendliest games around.

[Triordinant]

[1Grimbane]

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Herr Vorragend, on 06 February 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

"characters"

If you enjoy the game and play it a lot you´ll swim in CBills soon. (prem time, hero mechs and so on) But it seems that you don´t want that. You are never forced to spend money. You can achieve everything for free. Of course it´ll be a grind but hey...I got many friends who do it exactly like this.
What you want is the "all inclusive" packet for nothing. Using whales like I am as a cheap excuse is utterly ********. It´s my own decision if I give money to PGI or not. The prices are not low, but they are okay cause I had a lot of fun during the years playing MWO.
If you don´t like certain things here...no problem, play something else.

MWO definitely one of the f2p friendliest games around.

F2p friendly? a whale can't comment onwhat f2p is. I bet you spent over 700$ but probably isn't even close to owning all the mechs.

The game forces you to buy mechbays, hero mechs to reduce grind, obviously makes the grind horrible to bait you into becoming a whale.

Warthunder doesn't have a cap on how many planes you own. It shits on your exp gain sure, but MWO shits on you in a completely different, worse way. You have no idea how bad it is for an F2P player because you aren't one. Its actually bad for whales aswell, but whiteknighting so nothing can be done here.

League doesn't cap your slots, or doesn't force you to buy 3 lucian's to maxout your lucian. You can reuse your runes on whatever you want, you don't have to buy a module for every single game.

I am going to play something else, and thats the saddest thing, the only thing that turns me off from this game is the grind, everthing is actually pretty good. 40 dollar mechpack (which is equivalent of 1 maxed character) is the absolute worst value you will ever see in any game.

I might come back if I see a generous event, but seeing the whale dominated economy, I highly doubt any of their event's are going to be anywhere generous, just reducing the price to something that is borderline acceptable.

1 week of play was all it took for me to not give a **** about this game, when I have been playing MW4 and MW mercs since I was 10 years old on and off. This game is garbage and obscene.

You guys keep preodering the mechs at ******** prices, they set the prices because of players like you, so that true f2p players pretty much won't be able to play the game. 20/80 rule, where the 80 eventually leaves because of garbage like this, and you only have your 20 fat whales. I look forward to seeing the steam figures after a few months.

[thehiddenedge]

they're not characters..

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Yep they aren't, they are whale bait.

[wanderer]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 06 February 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

The game forces you to buy mechbays, hero mechs to reduce grind, obviously makes the grind horrible to bait you into becoming a whale.

I might come back if I see a generous event, but seeing the whale dominated economy, I highly doubt any of their event's are going to be anywhere generous, just reducing the price to something that is borderline acceptable.

Actually, that part about the Mechbays? Untrue.

Cycle through CW factions on short contracts before/if you commit. Rank 2 = free Mechbay. By the time you've finished the IS and Clan to R2, you've got room for nearly a dozen more 'Mechs. (Rank 6 is a second one for each.)

F2P isn't whale-dominated. Also, they run regular events with 'Mech giveaways. Don't want the 'Mech? Strip and sell it, you got another Mechbay. Is it slower? Absolutely. Is it P2W or even P2P? No. But it takes knowing how to play the system, you betcha.

[thehiddenedge]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 06 February 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Yep they aren't, they are whale bait.

What kind of whales?

Because I'm pretty sure there may be differences in bait between baleen and toothed whales.

So like small fishes and squid on the one hand or maybe some delicious krill on the other.

either way you'll have some happy whales.

[Coolant]

If the OP used Hero mechs as a point, he might have somewhat of a case (although certainly debatable). But, there is no way this game is P2W. P2W assumes there are weapons and equipment that are obviously better and can only be purchased with real money. Armor piercing rounds that can bypass armor and can only be bought with real money would be an example. Weapons that have greater range or do more damage that can only be bought with real money would be other examples. A flying mount in an MMORPG that can only be bought with real money when all other mounts for in-game money are land restricted would be another. A weapon that always crits is another. A mech that has more slots than any other mech purchaseable only by real money is an example. MASC that doesn't damage your legs in overuse purchaseable only by real money is an example. Missiles that avoid AMS fire purchaseable only by real money another. The list could go on and on.

If you don't have the time to grind, then that is your problem, but does not make the game P2W. What may take one person a month to grind for something may only take a day for another. Depends on how much time you choose to devote. But, it doesn't make it P2W.

If you complain about others having what you don't have, then spend more time in game. Otherwise, you have nothing to complain about.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Your argument makes it that every f2p game is super viable to play for free. Just have to spend months grinding, but viable. That means hearthstone isn't p2w either, but the community knows for a fact that it is p2w because the grind is obscene. Atleast they know that their game is p2w, and certain game modes like Arena actually aren't p2w because of the mechanics.

Everyone who says MWO isn't p2w is just a whale, because they find the idea offensive really, even though they know the game is unplayable without paying, thats why they used that approach to MWO.

[Clownwarlord]

Why are modules so expensive? I have no idea ... I think I will go ask some one.

[SteelMantis]

Herr Vorragend, on 06 February 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

MWO definitely one of the f2p friendliest games around.

Not even close, in my opinion it's right on the line of what's acceptable.

Johnny Gorbachev, on 06 February 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

#1 F2p friendly? a whale can't comment onwhat f2p is.

#2 The game forces you to buy...

#3 ts actually bad for whales

I chopped your post up a bit.

#1 That is kind of true. Anybody who has been succesful as a purely F2Per want to chime in here? (not a whale's alt account either, somebody who has never paid into the game on any account)

#2 On the other hand things are not nearly as bad as you are making them out to be. I did play for years before buying anything (as I usually do with F2P titles since I hate the idea of my winning because of having money). And while things could have been better I still had fun with the game and a positive K/D and W/L rate.

And that was years ago, things have improved considerably since then.

#3 That is also true. Unless you want to pay to win (in which case I look at you with a mixture of scorn and pity) having new players at a disadvantage is a bad thing. For one thing it cheapens all your kills as a whale. For another having a healthly player-base is good for everybody. Shorter queue times with closer match making, more active CW and more money coming in for PGI to spend on sports cars and improving the game.

Coolant, on 06 February 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

obviously better and can only be purchased with real money.

That's entirely your definition of P2W. My opinion is if anything needed to be on a completely equal footing (on one mech/character/load-out) is locked behind a paywall or an unacceptably long grind it is still pay to win.

There are a lot of games pretending to not be pay to win using a convenient excuse of pay to not grind. But the whole time a new player is grinding they are at a disadvantage and lose because of it. And again while I think module prices and mech costs are fine it would take between 200 and 500 hours to get enough GXP to fill all module slots (including two consumables maxed out).

PGI has done some good work improving the new player experience. What else could they do that is reasonable?

Edited by SteelMantis, 06 February 2016 - 06:20 PM.

[Kumakichi]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 05 February 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

I'm a new player, you know why new players rarely post here? Because new players rarely every stay. Unless youve been here from the start, grind is the name of the game. Thats the point of this post, you don't feel the grind, so its irrelevant to you. Actually it is relevant, because that means this game isnt going to grow past the current players who are tolerating it.

I see your point but its only grindy if you feel the need to rush to end game. I haven't played since open beta so my account was wiped and I guess you could say I'm a new player too from the point of view of having no mechs or modules. Just playing a little today was enough to get me a couple varients and a little mech xp. I'm not feeling the grind so much as being outclassed in tonnage and equipment. Still there is fun in taking to people piloting superior gear.

But I must admit I bet its going to feel very grindy trying to earn enough for clan mechs. Prices are up there.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Kumakichi, on 06 February 2016 - 10:05 PM, said:

I see your point but its only grindy if you feel the need to rush to end game.

End Game? WTF is this end game you speak of?

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Kumakichi, on 06 February 2016 - 10:05 PM, said:

I see your point but its only grindy if you feel the need to rush to end game. I haven't played since open beta so my account was wiped and I guess you could say I'm a new player too from the point of view of having no mechs or modules. Just playing a little today was enough to get me a couple varients and a little mech xp. I'm not feeling the grind so much as being outclassed in tonnage and equipment. Still there is fun in taking to people piloting superior gear.

But I must admit I bet its going to feel very grindy trying to earn enough for clan mechs. Prices are up there.

I decided to restart a new account, and see if i can rush a decent clan deck with it. The trial clans arent too bad atm, and there are alot of stompy units in clan so i can leech off them for ccbill.

Honestly I think clans might be cheaper overall though, cos IS mechs need a few engines if you want to optimise a few kinds of builds. You always have excess/over tonnage if you just stick with 1 engine, so I decided to scrap my IS side and just go with Clan.

As soon as you need 2 engines for 2 diff builds, clan mechs take ccbill value. Clans also seem to have more versatile builds since they aren't limited by their quirks.

[killkimno]

Johnny Gorbachev, You should be thankful for Piranha is sane for now

Try Korean(Or china) F2P games, then you will know what the real P2W is.

You can never beat a one-day playing noob paying user, even if you played the game for a billion years, because every better gears are only purchasable by cash, not by in-game money.

Do you think modules are expensive? But they can at least be purchased by in-game money. In korean F2P? Never happening.

Even more, paid gears are momentary. You have to pay again when they expires.

Edited by killkimno, 06 February 2016 - 11:00 PM.

[Wintersdark]

BigFatGator, on 05 February 2016 - 09:08 PM, said:

Weapon modules are pretty much optional. A slightly higher cooldown is a slight benefit but not a big deal. Range modules are slightly more effective on some weapons, but also not a huge deal.

OTOH, the Seismic is pretty frickin' mandatory. Radar dep. in 2nd place once you get the module slot superelitewhatever.

I don't disagree that Seismic and Radar Derp are very potent modules, but yet...

Here I am, consistently moving up through T2, having no trouble getting great results in my matches, without running either or even weapon modules or hell, even having pilot skills in the mechs I'm using right now.

Either I'm way the hell better than I thought, or those things - while helpful - are simply not that important.

If you want to get involved in serious competitive play, then yes: You need those. But if you're just banging off some solo queue drops? Or playing with a group of friends? No, you don't need them, and you can do just fine.

[Wintersdark]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 06 February 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

Your argument makes it that every f2p game is super viable to play for free. Just have to spend months grinding, but viable. That means hearthstone isn't p2w either, but the community knows for a fact that it is p2w because the grind is obscene. Atleast they know that their game is p2w, and certain game modes like Arena actually aren't p2w because of the mechanics.

Everyone who says MWO isn't p2w is just a whale, because they find the idea offensive really, even though they know the game is unplayable without paying, thats why they used that approach to MWO.

F2P games require money, or grind time. This, because as a free player, you're content for other players. The company needs to make money - they can't develop and maintain a game actually for free.

And the majority of players aren't going to shell out a lot of money unless they get something for it.

There are two alternatives:

1) Pay to win: You sell power. People are motivated to buy it, because they like winning. This is the easiest sell, but the quickest route to hell for a f2p game (though note many survive despite being obviously pay to win.

2) Pay for Pretty: You sell cosmetic items. This is harmless and helpful, but rarely entices sufficient buyers to keep the lights on without additional income. Most Pay for Pretty games have another revenue stream: Buying the box, or P2W or P2PF.

3) Pay to progress faster: You sell a quick pass through the grind. People are motivated to buy, because they get new shinies quicker. This works better, because in a given battle, the whale has no advantage over a similarly equipped free player.

MWO takes route 3. This works, because MWO progress is sideways: After a fairly small initial expenditure getting a set of modules and a mastered mech, you are 100% equal to any whale on the battlefield, no matter how much they've spent. In your early days before that, you're in T5, and T4 - where there are very few whales anyways; it's chock full of poor new players just like you.

After getting a mech mastered, any further spending just gets you more toys - those give you more options, but don't help you in combat.

Edited by Wintersdark, 06 February 2016 - 11:09 PM.