178 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 06 February 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

Everyone who says MWO isn't p2w is just a whale, because they find the idea offensive really, even though they know the game is unplayable without paying, thats why they used that approach to MWO.

Well darn, guess we're all wrong here guys. I mean if I were to even think to disagree I would instantly become a sea mammal.

Really though, game is definitely playable without paying. I played for over a year without paying and that was back in the open beta era which I've already mentioned.

[Endimra]

SteelMantis, on 06 February 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

#1 That is kind of true. Anybody who has been succesful as a purely F2Per want to chime in here? (not a whale's alt account either, somebody who has never paid into the game on any account)

I agree with the OP's point about pilot skills and modules, I don't think those belong in any kind of PvP environment. That said, similar things caused me to quit League of Legends pretty much the moment I got a DotA 2 beta key, whereas OP for some reason doesn't seem to have any issue with them in that game.

As for the grind itself, I don't think it's that bad. From a combination of events, loyalty points and sales, I've managed to get two heroes without spending a penny on the game. He's right about never getting all the mechs, but I have all the ones I actually want at this point and have just started buying random things like Battlemasters because I have nothing better to do with my excess CB.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Endimra, on 07 February 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

I agree with the OP's point about pilot skills and modules, I don't think those belong in any kind of PvP environment. That said, similar things caused me to quit League of Legends pretty much the moment I got a DotA 2 beta key, whereas OP for some reason doesn't seem to have any issue with them in that game.

I have an issue with runes in league aswell, but i'm willing to forgive it since the grind isn't that bad. I'd prefer it if runes were removed, they add nothing to the game, but I think the persistant world thing is needed for the casuals in general so I guess I don't completely mind it.

The issue here is grind, nothing more, nothing less.

LoL
Full meta runepage in lol (AD/Armor/magicres/AS) costs
205x9+ 205x9+205x9+ 1025x3= 8610ip

8610ip takes about 43 gameplay hours to farm, 18 hours if you only use your win of the days, and even less if you actually use a booster. Then you are set, you are competitive, you are on the same level as every player in the game. You are no longer a seal.

MWO
For factionwar it takes about 4x12mill of ccbill to get your core mech modules for each mech, then there are the weapon mods. Good player without boosts gets around 700-800k an hour through hard grinding,80 hours just for mech modules, another 40 hours for weapon modules, assuming you don't change weapons at all. Thats not counting consumables you need to actually keep up with the whales, the amount of arties and uav's i see in this game during CW is shocking.

120 hours vs 18 hours grind, I guess we can see why league isn't so dead. Haven't included the grind of champions vs mechs yet, but you can see the pattern.

Grind and clubbing in PvP games are just dumb, and it pushes away more players than it adds. Complement them with the horrible instore prices and you have yourself a dead game.

Also touching on events, I haven't seen anything good yet, so I'm going to stand by my opinion that Pirahnas is one of the least consumer friendly gaming companies ever to exist, and are only abusing the fact that there hasn't been a good mechwarrior game in years. Look at this exp event, its a joke. I have too much exp, no ccbills, this only benefits whales.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 07 February 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[Quaamik]

Free to play is not free to develop, free to host or free to maintain. They need to make money. If you expect to truly play for free, expect to grind and take a long time to be competitive. Sorry, real world knocking here, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

That said, modules are too expensive, especially when you compare them to the cost of mechs that come with quirks doing the same thing to a higher level. You get much more bang for your buck buying a mech with quirks you like, than buying a mech you like and trying to use modules to improve it.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Quaamik, on 09 February 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

Free to play is not free to develop, free to host or free to maintain. They need to make money. If you expect to truly play for free, expect to grind and take a long time to be competitive. Sorry, real world knocking here, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

That said, modules are too expensive, especially when you compare them to the cost of mechs that come with quirks doing the same thing to a higher level. You get much more bang for your buck buying a mech with quirks you like, than buying a mech you like and trying to use modules to improve it.

Hi, real world here, 50$ for a set of virtual mechs (which is really just 1 mech since you need 3 to max them out) is just robbery. No one except the fanboyest of fanboys will be able to justify that price, which is what PG is currently leeching off. If destiny can charge 60$ for their multi million dollar game, MWO can charge $60 for at least 5-10 unique mechs while still being able to feed their kids.

[Hawk_eye]

While I agree that some of the mech-packs are ridiculously priced and PGI doesn´t seem to understand the micro part in micro-transactions (personally, I treat MWO like a buy-to-play game and have bought two 20$ packs, because that is what I feel the game to be worth), the whole "grind" thing is completely alien to me.

Why is this, you ask?

Well, either
1) You have fun playing the game and then the grind doesn´t feel like a grind because, if you have fun playing, where is the negative aspect of that?
or
2) You _don´t_ have fun playing and then the grind feels like a grind. But then, if you don´t have fun playing, why do you want to grind something in the first place?

For the record, over the course of the last 4 months (which is the time I have been actively playing), I have bought (with c-bills):
1 Firestarter (basic-ed)
3 Wolfhounds (non-basic-ed)
2 Cicadas (elited)
1 Enforcers (non-basic-ed)
3 Griffins (1 basic-ed, 2 mastered)
2 Wolverines (basic-ed)
3 Shadow Hawks (1 basic-ed, 2 mastered)
3 Quickdraws (1 mastered, 1 elited, 1 basic-ed)
3 Grasshoppers (all mastered)
1 Victor (non-basic-ed)

I have bought (with MC I got from events, so for free) 9 mech-bays (during the sale)

Throw in 2 Radar Derp, 1 Advanced Zoom, 1 Advanced Sensor Range, 1 each of LL, LPL, ML range and 1 GR cool-down module and I can´t really see the huge problem here
(granted, the premium time that came with my Marauders and with some events and the newsletter subscription didn´t hurt)

P.s.: From what I hear (no personal experience), jumping into CW with only some 50 matches under your belt is a really, REALLY bad idea.

[Ratpoison]

Free to Play means pay with your money or pay with your time. There is no third option, and it's unrealistic to expect one. A populated, active playerbase helps them make money, which is why you are allowed to play for free in the first place. If you are not willing to contribute to the health of the game, then what makes you think they owe you anything?

The only problem with modules is the absurd costs required to put them on all your mechs to avoid the pointless swapping.

Edited by tortuousGoddess, 10 February 2016 - 01:48 AM.

[Karamarka]

This is the same OP that wants people to suicide in lights to make c-bills. Oh look he is Tier 4.

Edited by Karamarka, 10 February 2016 - 02:35 AM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Karamarka, on 10 February 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

This is the same OP that wants people to suicide in lights to make c-bills. Oh look he is Tier 4.

M8 seals are the greatest source of cbills bruh, do u even economix?

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Antecursor Venatus, on 10 February 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

While I agree that some of the mech-packs are ridiculously priced and PGI doesn´t seem to understand the micro part in micro-transactions (personally, I treat MWO like a buy-to-play game and have bought two 20$ packs, because that is what I feel the game to be worth), the whole "grind" thing is completely alien to me.

Why is this, you ask?

Well, either
1) You have fun playing the game and then the grind doesn´t feel like a grind because, if you have fun playing, where is the negative aspect of that?
or
2) You _don´t_ have fun playing and then the grind feels like a grind. But then, if you don´t have fun playing, why do you want to grind something in the first place?

For the record, over the course of the last 4 months (which is the time I have been actively playing), I have bought (with c-bills):
1 Firestarter (basic-ed)
3 Wolfhounds (non-basic-ed)
2 Cicadas (elited)
1 Enforcers (non-basic-ed)
3 Griffins (1 basic-ed, 2 mastered)
2 Wolverines (basic-ed)
3 Shadow Hawks (1 basic-ed, 2 mastered)
3 Quickdraws (1 mastered, 1 elited, 1 basic-ed)
3 Grasshoppers (all mastered)
1 Victor (non-basic-ed)

I have bought (with MC I got from events, so for free) 9 mech-bays (during the sale)

Throw in 2 Radar Derp, 1 Advanced Zoom, 1 Advanced Sensor Range, 1 each of LL, LPL, ML range and 1 GR cool-down module and I can´t really see the huge problem here
(granted, the premium time that came with my Marauders and with some events and the newsletter subscription didn´t hurt)

P.s.: From what I hear (no personal experience), jumping into CW with only some 50 matches under your belt is a really, REALLY bad idea.

irony is that you have spent 40$ and played for about 4 mths and you still dont have enough modules for a competitive cw deck. Maybe it's because it is at least alittle bit too expensive?

[Karamarka]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 10 February 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

M8 seals are the greatest source of cbills bruh, do u even economix?

nah cause if you actually did dmg and made cbills you would naturally progress faster through xp system

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Karamarka, on 10 February 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

nah cause if you actually did dmg and made cbills you would naturally progress faster through xp system

So PSR is just a glorified xp bar? : O

[General Solo]

@OP
If you get repeatedly clubbed, a module will not save you.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

OZHomerOZ, on 10 February 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

@OP
If you get repeatedly clubbed, a module will not save you.

Then it may aswell be free right? Since Im **** anyway it shouldn't matter.

[General Solo]

Because the rest of us earned those modules by either paying for them, or grinding for them the hard way.
Why should you be any different?

And MWO being a F2P game, why would PGI deny themselves a revenue stream.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 10 February 2016 - 06:11 AM.

[MinkeWhale]

First off, not a whale (not that I think being a whale is bad at all, do what you want with your money, its just to point out my perspective). Second, I think PGI's prices do hurt them. I simply scoff at some of the prices for MC or whatever.

However, I bought about 60 dollars of game content while things were on sale over Christmas. I already knew I liked the game from running trial mechs for 30-40 hours. I bought light steam pack and the heavy steam pack. I got: 1 Raven 3L(s), on artic Cheeta Prime(s) One Timberwolf C (s) and One Thunderbolt 9se (s). "S" stands for 30% more cbills. I got 60 days of premium time, 4500 mc and like 7 million cbills. What is also nice is the IS mechs come fully ugrade in those packs, which saved another 20 million cbills.

I used the vast majority of those mc and mc from events on mechbays (plus 7 earned in CW). I havplayed about 150 hours since christmas, which a lot more than many AAA titles I have purchased. I now have 36 mechs, about 70% elited. After about 60 hours and 60 dollars I had a completely viable "deck" for CW. I tried it early and realized I needed more skill to be successful in that mode.

I play more cw with a small unit than anything else now. We win about half the time, so I average 600-700k per match.

Modules are nice, especially radar derp and seismic. They are overpriced. I personally find consumables more annoying. However, try putting ecm in your deck until you can afford those modules. There are even solid trial mechs with ecm.

Bottom line, if you like the game and want to support it while reducing your grind, I found the steam bundles give you strong mechs with cbill boosts.

In CW its teamwork that is overpowered. A 12 man on teamspeak with all trial mechs would handily crush an uncoordinated "whale" pug drop. That seems the opposite of pay to win.

[Hawk_eye]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 10 February 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

irony is that you have spent 40$ and played for about 4 mths and you still dont have enough modules for a competitive cw deck. Maybe it's because it is at least alittle bit too expensive?

No, the irony is that I had 4 months of fun, which, for me (ymmv) is worth the 40$, while all I hear from you is rah, rah, rah, I want it NAO!
So, if MWO is so terrible, why., exactly, are you here?

P.s.:
Ever heard the phrase: "The way is the goal"?

Edited by Antecursor Venatus, 10 February 2016 - 07:27 AM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Antecursor Venatus, on 10 February 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

No, the irony is that I had 4 months of fun, which, for me (ymmv) is worth the 40$, while all I hear from you is rah, rah, rah, I want it NAO!
So, if MWO is so terrible, why., exactly, are you here?

P.s.:
Ever heard the phrase: "The way is the goal"?

The way is the goal, assuming the way actually leads somewhere. You spent 40 $ and 4 mths and is still no where even close to having a competitive account. So why is MWO excused for having a massive grindwall/paywall, when almost every other game is criticised for having one. "Lol warthunder such a big grind it sucks"when MWO is pretty much just as bad. The big difference is that MWO has competitive modes such as soloque with MMR, and faction war, while warthunder is purely a casual game (no mmr, no competitive mode, just one massive clusterfk in every game).

Sure, you have fun, great, hang it up on your wall. It doesn't justify the artificial grind that is put up by the devs out of greed that actually limit's their own growth. Only thing most new players are going to see when they log into MWO and see are 6mill items for increased stats/damage is "rofl, one of THOSE free games" and off they go.

You can defend it I guess, but you are just killing your own game.

Jmink, on 10 February 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

Modules are nice, especially radar derp and seismic. They are overpriced. I personally find consumables more annoying. However, try putting ecm in your deck until you can afford those modules. There are even solid trial mechs with ecm.

Modules arent just "nice" radar derp is the difference between being immune to LRMs and being pretty much a free kill to LRM boats. Its the diffrence between a close range non ECM mech being viable in solo que and being absolutely garbage. Its literally an upgrade in every single way, and is extremely core to have in all your mechs. It makes playing on Polar reasonable as opposed to being an absolute screen shake fk party for brawlers.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 10 February 2016 - 08:58 AM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

-

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 10 February 2016 - 08:58 AM.

[Remillard]

I think this is a lot of sturm and drang. I am a new player, Tier 4. Yes, the modules are expensive, but not outrageously so, as I was able to put a radar derp and 5/5 cooldown module on my favorite mech this morning (9M C-bills). I had the GXP to unlock these. I've played lightly since... late January?

Now, that being said, I made excellent use of the double XP weekend as much as I could. And getting a separate radar derp module for a full deck would be 24M C-bills, a substantial amount.

Still, I've been screwing around with build layouts, making tweaks, engine replacements and such and STILL have ... well okay much less after buying those, but BEFORE buying the modules I had about 12 million banked up. And neither of these modules is necessary at my level, I just was curious about it and decided to install it.

So... I sense OP is frustrated, but really -- it's not that bad.