178 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

Modules are end-game CBill sinks for players who have all the mechs they need and just want to pimp out their mechs for CW or comp play.

You don't need them, they're min-max gear for that last little bit of edge when you've done everything else.

It's not P2W. No one makes you spend money on MWO, yeah, lot of the prices are bad, so don't buy those things. I've bought one hero mech and a good amount of MC for premium time over a two year period, I'm no whale by far, largely getting by only on CBills I earn. The grind is only bad in the very beginning, if you play solo and don't team up with good people. I met up with a good unit on day 2 of my MWO experience, never left, so I can have fun and drop with people I enjoy playing with whenever I want.

The grind is only as real as you let it be.

[Ratpoison]

Kodyn, on 10 February 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

Modules are end-game CBill sinks for players who have all the mechs they need and just want to pimp out their mechs for CW or comp play.

You don't need them, they're min-max gear for that last little bit of edge when you've done everything else.

It's not P2W. No one makes you spend money on MWO, yeah, lot of the prices are bad, so don't buy those things. I've bought one hero mech and a good amount of MC for premium time over a two year period, I'm no whale by far, largely getting by only on CBills I earn. The grind is only bad in the very beginning, if you play solo and don't team up with good people. I met up with a good unit on day 2 of my MWO experience, never left, so I can have fun and drop with people I enjoy playing with whenever I want.

The grind is only as real as you let it be.

I'm in that position, and it still feels pretty BS that I need to earn over one BILLION cbills if I want to completely avoid the needless module switching.

Though I can add that I started as a free player back in beta. Everything was way too expensive back then, when there were no sales and everything was bought with the inefficient MC system. I only bought mech bays, colors, and patterns for the first 6 months or so that I played. Cbill earnings were a lot lower then, too. As far as F2P games tend to go, the grind in this game is pretty light.

Edited by tortuousGoddess, 10 February 2016 - 09:30 AM.

[Herr Vorragend]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 10 February 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Modules arent just "nice" radar derp is the difference between being immune to LRMs and being pretty much a free kill to LRM boats. Its the diffrence between a close range non ECM mech being viable in solo que and being absolutely garbage.

Your statements are simply not right and overall you´re talking a lot of rec taloutputs.
You seem to be a frustrated little kid and I´m wondering why you´re still here.

Edited by Herr Vorragend, 10 February 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[Lightfoot]

MWO is not a grind. It is F2P more than any other game. You get basically the same mech that a 2 year player has after at most a month. Most MMO games make you grind years for the best pvp gear. I just buy the Modules as I can and switch them in and out of mechs. After awhile you have several of the better ones and you can outfit a drop-deck of mechs, but the modules are all unnecessary, they just add small effects. Better to get the mechs first.

It is true though that you have to choose between mechs or modules or play a lot of games, but the modules are just some fluff. If you have a favorite mech though the modules allow you to tweek it a bit further.

[Quaamik]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 10 February 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Modules arent just "nice"; radar derp is the difference between being immune to LRMs and being pretty much a free kill to LRM boats. Its the diffrence between a close range non ECM mech being viable in solo que and being absolutely garbage. Its literally an upgrade in every single way, and is extremely core to have in all your mechs. It makes playing on Polar reasonable as opposed to being an absolute screen shake fk party for brawlers.

I've played for 3 years. I'm tier 3 in my primary account, and approaching that in my alt account I stared around Christmas. And I honestly can only play usually 1 day a week (real life - work, family & other hobbies).

Other than consumables, I have 1, count it one (1) module in my alt account.
I have most of my mechs equipped with one in my main account, some with two, because I can and its convienent.

They do NOT make or break your ability to play. Yes, sniping is easier with a zoom module, and LRMs are easier to use with the one that lets you hold locks longer. Radar deep is nice, but not really worth the price (and if you die without it from missiles, it likely wouldn't help - AMS however might). Seismic is nice, but not desperately needed either.

Concentrate on playing the game, learning it, and you'll soon find the modules aren't really needed. They are just "nice to have" items.

[MinkeWhale]

Wait, polar highlands is not a CW map.

If you are seriously complaining about the two modules you say you need for one non ecm heavy or assault mech in quick play . . . well . . . there is no pleasing you.

Join a unit, there are many recruiting.

I thought you were complaining about buying 3-4 of each module for cw decks. In CW LRMs are never a problem. If the other team is boating large amounrts lrms, should be an easy game.

I play plenty of F2P games, and I drop a quarter in the ones with worthy gameplay. I have yet to play one where you are handed a "competitive" setup. It's up to you if you can't have fun.

[Hawk_eye]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 10 February 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

The way is the goal, assuming the way actually leads somewhere. You spent 40 $ and 4 mths and is still no where even close to having a competitive account. So why is MWO excused for having a massive grindwall/paywall, when almost every other game is criticised for having one. "Lol warthunder such a big grind it sucks"when MWO is pretty much just as bad. The big difference is that MWO has competitive modes such as soloque with MMR, and faction war, while warthunder is purely a casual game (no mmr, no competitive mode, just one massive clusterfk in every game).

I got a total of 30 mechs and 8 modules for those 40$ and 4 months of playing.
If I were interested in CW, I would have concentrated on specific mechs and could _easily_ have 2 or 3 complete drop-decks with modules.
But I´m not _interested_ in CW, so I try many different mechs and many different builds.

BTW, how do you _define_ a "competitive account"?
Having 1, 2 or 3 complete drop-decks?
Owning 30% of all available mech?
50%, 100%?

Johnny Gorbachev, on 10 February 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Sure, you have fun, great, hang it up on your wall. It doesn't justify the artificial grind that is put up by the devs out of greed that actually limit's their own growth. Only thing most new players are going to see when they log into MWO and see are 6mill items for increased stats/damage is "rofl, one of THOSE free games" and off they go.

You can defend it I guess, but you are just killing your own game.

Of course I have fun.
It´s a bloody game!
The whole reason of playing is to have fun!


P.s.: There is plenty wrong with PGI and MWO. The whole "3 variants to master" thing is complete bull****, assault and conquest are poorly thought out game modes and the "all-or-nothing" heat-scale is stupid as hell, for example.
The "grind" isn´t unbearable, IMO

[Chuck Jager]

F2P is just that free. You get the game, but nothing else. You are there for the money making players to have someone to fight against.

I am partially disabled and can only work 20hrs per week and count as poverty bracket, but I buy a pack now and then and try to keep premium time. My expenses are less than $20 per month. This is what a cheap gym membership costs and they will only give you one free pass. I have zero complaints that I have to trade pgi some of my money to gain more value in the game they have put money into.

I do have an alt account and at t3 it only has 5 modules, but they are worth it. Sadly I will say that 6million for radar derp. seismic and adv decay will out perform the same amount spent on many mechs. Do not buy mechs that are crap, but you like especially if you are F2P. Also only buy lines that you wish to elite and then use the modules because all of the small gains really start to add up.

I will say that the game does reward long term players with elited OP mechs better than newer players even if they do spend money. PGI also has the most f2p model I have seen when it comes to grind and locked content (swtor requires a subscription to post to the forum)

Edited by Chuck Jager, 10 February 2016 - 12:25 PM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

ITT Whales and grinders loving the poweradvantage they have over players who hasn't grinded 200 hours for power boosts.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 10 February 2016 - 05:19 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Honestly modules are unbalanced as for new players... no wonder there are so many stomps in game.

Johnny Gorbachev, on 10 February 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

ITT Whales and grinders loving the poweradvantage they have over players who hasn't grinded 200 hours for power boosts.

Which is why the population has gone from 4000 on steam release to 2000....

Edited by Samial, 10 February 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[Moldur]

Samial, on 10 February 2016 - 07:08 PM, said:

Honestly modules are unbalanced as for new players... no wonder there are so many stomps in game.


Which is why the population has gone from 4000 on steam release to 2000....

There are many possibly influential factors to consider.

Not the least of which is winter break. Winter break for a university might end as late as almost mid January.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Moldur, on 10 February 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

There are many possibly influential factors to consider.

Not the least of which is winter break. Winter break for a university might end as late as almost mid January.

I'm willing to bet my left nut that as long as grind is in this state, the 4k players on steam is going to forever be its peak. F2P has been around for years, ever game with absurd grind is always going to die, especially if the grind isn't side grades but direct upgrades to whatever you currently have.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 10 February 2016 - 07:23 PM.

[Moldur]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 10 February 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

I'm willing to bet my left nut that as long as grind is in this state, the 4k players on steam is going to forever be its peak. F2P has been around for years, ever game with absurd grind is always going to die, especially if the grind isn't side grades but direct upgrades to whatever you currently have.

You are probably right. Most F2P games, unless they really knock it out of the park, peak briefly and drop off.

Warframe is a huge grind as well. I have never played it, but from talking with others, it seems fairly well received. It's mostly PVE, and the devs update it so that there are new "quests" and stuff to grind for.


The pacing of grind in MWO is kind of odd to me. I find it to be more of a start-up cost rather than linear grind. Once someone has got 2 dozen mechs or so, assuming a person bought some good chassis, having more mechs does not really give an advantage per match unless we are talking about owning every mech for every situation in every map in CW.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Moldur, on 10 February 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

You are probably right. Most F2P games, unless they really knock it out of the park, peak briefly and drop off.

Warframe is a huge grind as well. I have never played it, but from talking with others, it seems fairly well received. It's mostly PVE, and the devs update it so that there are new "quests" and stuff to grind for.


The pacing of grind in MWO is kind of odd to me. I find it to be more of a start-up cost rather than linear grind. Once someone has got 2 dozen mechs or so, assuming a person bought some good chassis, having more mechs does not really give an advantage per match unless we are talking about owning every mech for every situation in every map in CW.

Warframe is definitely not a grind, it just has an awkward (unique?) economy. Its also a PvE game, but as far as MMOs go, its grind is almost as comparable to a single player game. The only real grind that happens in the game is for completionists, not for players who wish to progress, you can play for about 1-2 weeks and you have experienced all the content in the game (including endgame). I only played that game for about 2 months and I have almost collected every single item/warframe in the game. The mod maxing is the only real grind, similar to modules in this game but atleast thats an MMO PVE game. the PvP in that game has no grind wall.

The grind only happens if you avoid trade chat (which alot of players do because of its awkwardness), don't use wikis/guides, or intentionally make the gameplay harder.

The actual time to unlock a warframe is literally about 1 hour of game time, then you have to craft it and 3 days later (of being offline) its ready. Maxing a primed mod might take closer to 10 hours of game time (this is about the biggest grind as it gets in the game), but bringing it to 90% the value of a maxed one would take about 1 hour.

If we are comparing completionist grind vs playable grind, completionist grind in MWO is practically impossible even if you started from the beta while completionist grind on Warframe is very doable in 2 months even if you had no idea what the game is about from the start (if you don't count mod maxing), mod maxing would take another month or so.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 10 February 2016 - 07:52 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Moldur, on 10 February 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

There are many possibly influential factors to consider.

Not the least of which is winter break. Winter break for a university might end as late as almost mid January.

Fair enough but the game is multinational, not just US players, we have no winter breaks here..

[Revis Volek]

Samial, on 10 February 2016 - 07:08 PM, said:

Honestly modules are unbalanced as for new players... no wonder there are so many stomps in game.


Which is why the population has gone from 4000 on steam release to 2000....

The modules have NOTHING to do with stomps, Do you really think a 10% increase in range all of a sudden means the team stomps you?

Stomps are an inherent mechanic in the game, not CONTENT or anything you whine about will change it. Once you understand the game more this will make sense is really all i can say. I could post a bunch of stuff about focus fire and coordination but you will all just nay say and scream P2W or whatever.

Samial, on 10 February 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

Fair enough but the game is multinational, not just US players, we have no winter breaks here..

The majority of the player base is in fact NA, so he is pretty accurate.

Johnny Gorbachev, on 10 February 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

Warframe is definitely not a grind, it just has an awkward (unique?) economy. Its also a PvE game, but as far as MMOs go, its grind is almost as comparable to a single player game. The only real grind that happens in the game is for completionists, not for players who wish to progress, you can play for about 1-2 weeks and you have experienced all the content in the game (including endgame). I only played that game for about 2 months and I have almost collected every single item/warframe in the game. The mod maxing is the only real grind, similar to modules in this game but atleast thats an MMO PVE game. the PvP in that game has no grind wall.

The grind only happens if you avoid trade chat (which alot of players do because of its awkwardness), don't use wikis/guides, or intentionally make the gameplay harder.

The actual time to unlock a warframe is literally about 1 hour of game time, then you have to craft it and 3 days later (of being offline) its ready. Maxing a primed mod might take closer to 10 hours of game time (this is about the biggest grind as it gets in the game), but bringing it to 90% the value of a maxed one would take about 1 hour.

If we are comparing completionist grind vs playable grind, completionist grind in MWO is practically impossible even if you started from the beta while completionist grind on Warframe is very doable in 2 months even if you had no idea what the game is about from the start (if you don't count mod maxing), mod maxing would take another month or so.

Wait, so 3 days and an hour isnt too long in one game but it is in this one?

I literally bought Black Kinghts 2 weeks ago and have mastered and module'd 2 of 3. It took way less then 3 days of REAL LIFE to master one chassis i can tell you that. So much bias, if you dont like the game dont play dude.


You have LITERALLY been playing for 8 days, What do you expect to have after a week?

Edited by Revis Volek, 11 February 2016 - 01:31 AM.

[Johnny Gorbachev]

Revis Volek, on 11 February 2016 - 01:30 AM, said:

The modules have NOTHING to do with stomps, Do you really think a 10% increase in range all of a sudden means the team stomps you?

Stomps are an inherent mechanic in the game, not CONTENT or anything you whine about will change it. Once you understand the game more this will make sense is really all i can say. I could post a bunch of stuff about focus fire and coordination but you will all just nay say and scream P2W or whatever.




The majority of the player base is in fact NA, so he is pretty accurate.




Wait, so 3 days and an hour isnt too long in one game but it is in this one?

I literally bought Black Kinghts 2 weeks ago and have mastered and module'd 2 of 3. It took way less then 3 days of REAL LIFE to master one chassis i can tell you that. So much bias, if you dont like the game dont play dude.


You have LITERALLY been playing for 8 days, What do you expect to have after a week?

Do you understand what I meant by 3 days. It means that after 72 hours, wether you play or not, it gets completed. Realtime. The acutal grind time ingame spent is about an hour. You don't get free stuff from MWO from not playing, you either play or you get nothing. Atleast similar games like League has win of the day bonuses, MWO has nothing of that. Exp is never a bottleneck to progression, so that doesn't count.

The concept of not grinding might be foreign to mmo sim games around here, but enjoying other F2P games might actually let you realise how big of a scam MWO actually is.

Edited by Johnny Gorbachev, 11 February 2016 - 01:39 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Johnny Gorbachev, on 11 February 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

Do you understand what I meant by 3 days. It means that after 72 hours, wether you play or not, it gets completed. Realtime. The acutal grind time ingame spent is about an hour. You don't get free stuff from MWO from not playing, you either play or you get nothing. Atleast similar games like League has win of the day bonuses, MWO has nothing of that. Exp is never a bottleneck to progression, so that doesn't count.

The concept of not grinding might be foreign to mmo sim games around here, but enjoying other F2P games might actually let you realise how big of a scam MWO actually is.

Actually if you play enough games they give out Free mechs and stuff, Its their Loyalty bonus and they DO give out free stuff. We have lots of events, you get FREE stuff there for playing the game like you normally would. I wil agree you have to PLAY but playing an hour and then having to wait 3 days to even use what I unlocked sounds lame to me and is more then likely the reason i never bothered with WarFrame. Its seemed lame and my suspicion seems correct.

Id rather just play over 3 days and then have my mech ready to rock after that...but to each his own i guess.

I dont know many game companies that just GIVE items away even if you dont play the game. I play MANY MANY free to play games if you would like me to list them I will...

TERA
PATH OF EXILE
WAR THUNDER
MWO
ROBOCRAFT
DEVILIAN
DOTA
NEVERWINTER
VINDICTUS
HOTS

So lets say i have some experience in f2p games.... Most Koren MMO's are so grindy its insane but i dont mind it, im a fan of most of them either way. But like i said, you have been playing for 8 days. Have you even finished your cadet bonus yet? How many matches under you belt?

[PocketYoda]

Revis Volek, on 11 February 2016 - 01:30 AM, said:

The modules have NOTHING to do with stomps, Do you really think a 10% increase in range all of a sudden means the team stomps you?

Stomps are an inherent mechanic in the game, not CONTENT or anything you whine about will change it. Once you understand the game more this will make sense is really all i can say. I could post a bunch of stuff about focus fire and coordination but you will all just nay say and scream P2W or whatever.




The majority of the player base is in fact NA, so he is pretty accurate.

I call BS... modules make a huge difference or no one would be using them obviously griefers would defend them.. and i see as many non US players as i do US..

Edited by Samial, 11 February 2016 - 03:12 AM.

[Hawk_eye]

Samial, on 11 February 2016 - 03:11 AM, said:

I call BS... modules make a huge difference or no one would be using them obviously griefers would defend them.. and i see as many non US players as i do US..

No.
It _does_ make a difference, but not a huge one.

Let´s look at the numbers.

The range modules increase range by 10%.
So, taking an IS LL, at 500 meter, your LL _with_ range module deals the full 9 damage instead of only 8 (numbers rounded a bit)
WOW. A full point of damage more! Obviously completely OP.

Seriously, no matter how you look at it, a bonus of 10% is a bonus of 10% and won´t turn into doubling your damage/range/whatever.

If the two teams facing off against each other are _very_ equal in terms of player skill and organization, then modules can give you that little bit of an edge to pull off a win, but if your team sucks compared to the other one, you can have all the modules you want and get wrecked and if your team is good compared to the other one, you wreck them with or without modules.

Granted, some modules are more useful than others (Radar Derp and Seismic come to mind) but even those are hardly game-changer.