1094 replies to this topic

[pyrocomp]

Well, the offender is long range alpha + instant pinpoint convergence. If the last tree are a sacred 'don't ya touch ma skillz', then we can bring in first by doubling lasers heat (of halve their damage). Will it solve the problem better? Will it be less offencive to the community?

[AEgg]

Mystere, on 14 February 2016 - 06:05 PM, said:

One of the free analog inputs on my HOTAS throttle, or a mouse scroll wheel, can deal with that just fine.

The term "Fixed" convergence implies that it is, well, fixed, and you can only change it outside of a match (i.e. in the mechlab).

We're up to, what, eight different suggestions now? (Kind of silly really seeing as there's little chance this will ever change)
Cone of fire
Cylinder of fire
No convergence
Fixed convergence (set in mechlab)
Manual convergence (adjustable in game)
Imperfect convergence (constant +/- from perfect)
Delayed convergence
Convergence only when locked

[SQW]

The quickest fix is just increase heat of lasers by 40% and add in HUD flickers when heat goes above 2/3.

Pro convergence will get their longer TTK, anti convergence will keep their skillz alpha and PGI doesn't have to do more than 10min of coding.

Why this hasn't been done since the pop tart days is the REAL question.

[Mystere]

AEgg, on 14 February 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

The term "Fixed" convergence implies that it is, well, fixed, and you can only change it outside of a match (i.e. in the mechlab).

We're up to, what, eight different suggestions now? (Kind of silly really seeing as there's little chance this will ever change)
Cone of fire
Cylinder of fire
No convergence
Fixed convergence (set in mechlab)
Manual convergence (adjustable in game)
Imperfect convergence (constant +/- from perfect)
Delayed convergence
Convergence only when locked

There is nothing to stop having all of the following:

• convergence on lock
  
• fixed convergence without lock
  
• default convergence distance set at Mechlab
  
• convergence distance adjusted in-battle
  
• and finally ... drum roll please ... zero convergence is just fixed convergence where distance is set to infinity

simply because there is a logical consistency in that list.

And so, what was the problem you mentioned again?

[Livewyr]

Mystere, on 14 February 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

There is nothing to stop having all of the following:

• convergence on lock
  
• fixed convergence without lock
  
• default convergence distance set at Mechlab
  
• convergence distance adjusted in-battle
  
• and finally ... drum roll please ... zero convergence is just fixed convergence where distance is set to infinity

simply because there is a logical consistency in that list.


And so, what was the problem you mentioned again?

ECM becomes more godly. (For starters.)

[Mystere]

Livewyr, on 14 February 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

ECM becomes more godly. (For starters.)

Not if you know how to adjust your convergence ... and use both Math and your eyes.

Edited by Mystere, 14 February 2016 - 10:21 PM.

[Livewyr]

Mystere, on 14 February 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

Not if you know how to adjust your convergence ... and use both Math and your eyes.

Did you see the crying that commenced in the PTS's where lasers wouldn't have their full range without lock?

[Mystere]

Livewyr, on 15 February 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

Did you see the crying that commenced in the PTS's where lasers wouldn't have their full range without lock?

Whiny crybabies.

Edited by Mystere, 15 February 2016 - 06:36 AM.

[Imperius]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

Well, the offender is long range alpha + instant pinpoint convergence. If the last tree are a sacred 'don't ya touch ma skillz', then we can bring in first by doubling lasers heat (of halve their damage). Will it solve the problem better? Will it be less offencive to the community?

I'd rather double ct armor again and side torsos arms and legs .5 increase

The logic behind armor buffs instead of weapon heat, the less you can fire your weapon or shoot things, the less fun the game becomes.

Edited by Imperius, 15 February 2016 - 07:21 AM.

[pyrocomp]

Imperius, on 15 February 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

I'd rather double ct armor again and side torsos arms and legs .5 increase

The logic behind armor buffs instead of weapon heat, the less you can fire your weapon or shoot things, the less fun the game becomes.

Then normalize and double ammo per ton at least. Or the lasers will be at huge advantage there.

[Livewyr]

Imperius, on 15 February 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

I'd rather double ct armor again and side torsos arms and legs .5 increase

The logic behind armor buffs instead of weapon heat, the less you can fire your weapon or shoot things, the less fun the game becomes.

I'm struggling to find the right analogy here.. perhaps this one:

There is a person bleeding profusely from a leg wound.
Do you
A: Just add more blood to them. (Buff CT armor...)
or
B: Slow or stop the bleeding. (Reduce the TTK through unfailing precision.)
??

All that does is prolong the lifespan of the viable mechs (by about the length of one Alpha cool-down...) it doesn't fix a damned thing.

[pyrocomp]

Livewyr, on 15 February 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

I'm struggling to find the right analogy here.. perhaps this one:

There is a person bleeding profusely from a leg wound.
Do you
A: Just add more blood to them. (Buff CT armor...)
or
B: Slow or stop the bleeding. (Reduce the TTK through unfailing precision.)
??

All that does is prolong the lifespan of the viable mechs (by about the length of one Alpha cool-down...) it doesn't fix a damned thing.

Critical blood loss is generally derived from body mass (not accurate, more variables), that means that double mass with double blood take twice as long to bleed critically. Same with halved blood loss. So... yes, same analogy. Buffing armor (better with a hidden buff on PTS after some other tweak) might be an easier way to do it as people are touchy about 'ma aim', 'ma build', 'dat weapon TT stats' etc. Armor and HP are already off the scale so easier to pass that, I think.

[Gorgo7]

Livewyr, on 15 February 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

I'm struggling to find the right analogy here.. perhaps this one:

There is a person bleeding profusely from a leg wound.
Do you
A: Just add more blood to them. (Buff CT armor...)
or
B: Slow or stop the bleeding. (Reduce the TTK through unfailing precision.)
??

All that does is prolong the lifespan of the viable mechs (by about the length of one Alpha cool-down...) it doesn't fix a damned thing.

No one is bleeding from a leg wound.
Your analogy is weak.
The gameplay is excellent. Focus is fine. Cone of fire is not needed here or wanted. In fact, it will detract from game-play.
Essentially this idea is from weak players who wish to fiddle because they think like engineers but never worked towards a degree and are now trying to engineer an easy mode.
Good luck!
Getting COF will require more than moaning.

[Hotthedd]

Gorgo7, on 15 February 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

No one is bleeding from a leg wound.
Your analogy is weak.
The gameplay is excellent. Focus is fine. Cone of fire is not needed here or wanted. In fact, it will detract from game-play.
Essentially this idea is from weak players who wish to fiddle because they think like engineers but never worked towards a degree and are now trying to engineer an easy mode.
Good luck!
Getting COF will require more than moaning.

It is the weak players who need their pinpoint alpha crutches.

[oldradagast]

SQW, on 14 February 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

The quickest fix is just increase heat of lasers by 40% and add in HUD flickers when heat goes above 2/3.

Pro convergence will get their longer TTK, anti convergence will keep their skillz alpha and PGI doesn't have to do more than 10min of coding.

Why this hasn't been done since the pop tart days is the REAL question.

Not really a fix since it makes individual lasers or low counts of them nearly worthless - which would kill light mechs since about all they can wield is lasers - and the game would just shift to whatever the latest way to deal perfect, pinpoint damage at stupid ranges happens to be.

We've been down this path before: PPC was too good, so they nerfed it into the trash it is today. Gauss was too good, so now it is mediocre unless boated. Lasers are too good... so we nerf them into oblivion? Nah... far better to address the pinpoint damage problem, IMHO, than leaving us with useless weapons that still need to be boated to be useful.

[pyrocomp]

oldradagast, on 15 February 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Not really a fix since it makes individual lasers or low counts of them nearly worthless - which would kill light mechs since about all they can wield is lasers - and the game would just shift to whatever the latest way to deal perfect, pinpoint damage at stupid ranges happens to be.

We've been down this path before: PPC was too good, so they nerfed it into the trash it is today. Gauss was too good, so now it is mediocre unless boated. Lasers are too good... so we nerf them into oblivion? Nah... far better to address the pinpoint damage problem, IMHO, than leaving us with useless weapons that still need to be boated to be useful.

Mmm. It is not so simple. Gimping the PPC weilders (heavy-assaults) resulted those being unable to trade and unable to quickly duck. Lights usually make a signle attack approach and run away to duck and cover. So lights will get their share but not that critical. Plus a light that kills an assault in 3 alphas wihtin 10 seconds (exagaration, but) is... well, I prefer lights to be buffed some other way.

[Livewyr]

I have no illusions about us actually getting a CoF...

I don't even think it's on Paul or Russ's "WHEEL-OF-BALANCE!!!!"
(That big wheel on the table that they spin blind-folded, in order to decide how to fix a glaring issue. Wheel options may or may not have been drawn from a hat in a 3rd grade art class.)

But it would be nice to have. Not fun with pinpoint laser boats removing the purpose of components. It's not fun to do, it's not fun to have it done to you. It's just boring and dumb.

*ahem* sorry; it's Candy Crush "Skill"

[SQW]

oldradagast, on 15 February 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Not really a fix since it makes individual lasers or low counts of them nearly worthless - which would kill light mechs since about all they can wield is lasers - and the game would just shift to whatever the latest way to deal perfect, pinpoint damage at stupid ranges happens to be.

We've been down this path before: PPC was too good, so they nerfed it into the trash it is today. Gauss was too good, so now it is mediocre unless boated. Lasers are too good... so we nerf them into oblivion? Nah... far better to address the pinpoint damage problem, IMHO, than leaving us with useless weapons that still need to be boated to be useful.

Any mech would cause issue if you are allow to boat them. My solution means the lasers are too hot to boat in current meta quantity and less 'effective' if reverted to a more heat-manageable amount. The root cause for the call for laser nerf is the low TTK and pinpoint is just the symptom (nobody complains about AC pinpoint because not many mech boat them). PPC and gauss are fine now - they just look weak because laser is SO much better.

As for the lights, the fact that an Atlas will have more trouble with an ACH than a DWF IS a serious problem. We have nascar and rambo lights because they are so much more effective fighting than doing what lights are suppose to be doing. How many ecm lights stay hidden to spot for the team rather than go charge in guns blazing?

[pyrocomp]

Livewyr, on 15 February 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

I have no illusions about us actually getting a CoF...

I don't even think it's on Paul or Russ's "WHEEL-OF-BALANCE!!!!"
(That big wheel on the table that they spin blind-folded, in order to decide how to fix a glaring issue. Wheel options may or may not have been drawn from a hat in a 3rd grade art class.)

I thought they use darts for those.

[Livewyr]

pyrocomp, on 15 February 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

I thought they use darts for those.

Have you watched them play?

With a wheel they cannot miss.