250 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

tortuousGoddess, on 14 February 2016 - 04:28 AM, said:

Absolutely agreed about more uniforms, but I can be patient since it should be low priority.

Besides, it's not hard to guess the real reasons why they accepted the lostech handwave excuse on the vests...


Yeah, I'd say it could use an update.

Looks fine to me.

[Ratpoison]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 February 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

If it's been around for 30+ years... it's not a mistake. Stop calling it as such.

As illustrated above, it's either a mistake, or it's a physics defying excuse simply to draw pilots half naked, for whatever reasons the author deems fit. I'd like a sensible redaction in either case.

[TexAce]

If PGI would make different models, some with cooling vests and some half naked, you all would spend your lovely MC on them, so stop arguing.

[Ratpoison]

TexAce, on 14 February 2016 - 04:38 AM, said:

If PGI would make different models, some with cooling vests and some half naked, you all would spend your lovely MC on them, so stop arguing.

Negative, the science is too flagrantly incorrect for me to ignore.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

tortuousGoddess, on 14 February 2016 - 04:34 AM, said:

As illustrated above, it's either a mistake, or it's a physics defying excuse simply to draw pilots half naked, for whatever reasons the author deems fit. I'd like a sensible redaction in either case.

Jesus H Fing Christ... it's not a "Physics Defying Excuse" THE GOD DAMNED MEDICAL FIELD TELLS US THAT REGULATING CORE BODY TEMP IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN REGULATING THE TEMP OF EXTREMITIES.

If you keep the core body temperature at a proper temperature, the body's natural circulatory system helps keep the rest of the body cool. This is proven, medical FACT.

Also generally, the decision to go half naked, was often the pilots, as many could wear a modified flight suit, but they tended to find Trunks and a cooling vest + web belt, boots and holster for side arm, more comfortable due to evaporative cooling on their extremities, than wearing a flight suit.

This entire damn argument, has been discussed IN THE LORE, and the reasons have been given, there is 0 reason to change it. None, it's an established fact of BATTLETECH on the whole. And many pilots that have access to full cooling suits don't even like them because they tend to be more restrictive in battle due to stiffness!

[Juodas Varnas]

tortuousGoddess, on 14 February 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

Negative, the science is too flagrantly incorrect for me to ignore.

Is it though?
And the 17 meter tall, but only 100 ton (so the density of styrofoam, more or less) mechs aren't?

Or is it simply you don't like it and will look for whatever argument to reinforce your position for not liking it?

[Aetes Nakatomi]

I don't mind the mech commander style of vest since it looks modern and war like.

Spoiler

But note the lack of stupid hat... Sometimes when times change, peoples tastes change, the demographic you are targeting changes. I just do not think the 80s style pilot fits MWO.

[GreyNovember]

Everyone acknowledges that we see the pilot model for like 5 seconds, right?

[Ratpoison]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 February 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

Jesus H Fing Christ... it's not a "Physics Defying Excuse" THE GOD DAMNED MEDICAL FIELD TELLS US THAT REGULATING CORE BODY TEMP IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN REGULATING THE TEMP OF EXTREMITIES.

If you keep the core body temperature at a proper temperature, the body's natural circulatory system helps keep the rest of the body cool. This is proven, medical FACT.

Also generally, the decision to go half naked, was often the pilots, as many could wear a modified flight suit, but they tended to find Trunks and a cooling vest + web belt, boots and holster for side arm, more comfortable due to evaporative cooling on their extremities, than wearing a flight suit.

This entire damn argument, has been discussed IN THE LORE, and the reasons have been given, there is 0 reason to change it. None, it's an established fact of BATTLETECH on the whole. And many pilots that have access to full cooling suits don't even like them because they tend to be more restrictive in battle due to stiffness!

Yeah, that's what the medical field says about keeping you alive, not keeping you unharmed. A cooling vest wont protect your exposed skin from being burned, especially in the conditions that lore describes. The pilots choosing to wear less clothing is bad writing, it's as simple as that. We're used to the concept of less clothing = more cool just because we live in an environment that is generally cooler than we are, but as Aetes Nakatomi explained, in a hot air environment like a mech cockpit, more exposure is more heat, not less. There's simply no logical reason to believe that insulated suits with minimized restriction wouldn't be priority equipment for a MechWarrior, and there's no logical reason to believe that "lostech" would stop that from happening.

Juodas Varnas, on 14 February 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

Is it though?
And the 17 meter tall, but only 100 ton (so the density of styrofoam, more or less) mechs aren't?

Yep, I've held this position for years, and your hyperbole isn't going to change it. There is a very large difference between treading the lines of plausibility in science fiction, and disregarding them entirely. The nonsensical cooling vests are not at all attempting to tread those lines.

[TexAce]

tortuousGoddess, on 14 February 2016 - 04:54 AM, said:

Yeah, that's what the medical field says about keeping you alive, not keeping you unharmed. A cooling vest wont protect your exposed skin from being burned, especially in the conditions that lore describes. The pilots choosing to wear less clothing is bad writing, it's as simple as that. We're used to the concept of less clothing = more cool just because we live in an environment that is generally cooler than we are, but as Aetes Nakatomi explained, in a hot air environment like a mech cockpit, more exposure is more heat, not less. There's simply no logical reason to believe that insulated suits with minimized restriction wouldn't be priority equipment for a MechWarrior, and there's no logical reason to believe that "lostech" would stop that from happening.


Yep, I've held this position for years, and your hyperbole isn't going to change it. There is a very large difference between treading the lines of plausibility in science fiction, and disregarding them entirely. The nonsensical cooling vests are not at all attempting to tread those lines.

I find it funny someone finds time to argue in length about stuff like this on a sunday. You all crack me up.

[Ratpoison]

TexAce, on 14 February 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

I find it funny someone finds time to argue in length about stuff like this on a sunday. You all crack me up.

I'm sorry that your life is so packed with important things that you cannot even find the time to discuss things you enjoy in your free time. That sounds truly terrible.

[TexAce]

tortuousGoddess, on 14 February 2016 - 05:03 AM, said:

I'm sorry that your life is so packed with important things that you cannot even find the time to discuss things you enjoy in your free time. That sounds truly terrible.

I'm playing the game, not discussing lore stuff about it on the forums

Those valentine rewards want to be earned

Edited by TexAce, 14 February 2016 - 05:21 AM.

[TheCharlatan]

Come on guys, you all know the truth:

• Realistic heat protection gear should cover EVERYTHING, making mechwarriors look like astronauts (maybe cool astronauts if you go the sci-fi way, but astronauts nonetheless).
  
• BT skimpy heat vests are there to let Natasha Kerensky and other female mechwarriors be depicted half naked, so nerdy BT players in their adolescence could fantasize on them. Nothing wrong with that, it's just 101 cheesy marketing. Still makes no sense, but in an universe where huge stompy robitz duke it out, why care?

Edited by TheCharlatan, 14 February 2016 - 05:30 AM.

[pyrocomp]

Kodyn, on 12 February 2016 - 10:19 PM, said:

^This. PGI makes no money off of this improvement, we gain nothing as players off of this improvement. Except for the few, very vocal people who are super excited.

The second top reason for negative review on the Steam is, to put it politely, 'outdated graphics' (well, usually it's 's***tty graphis' or stronger). First reason is 'I was with game since Beta, the LRMs and pop-tarts are OP and no balance', e.g. from some offended folks that left the game a year or more ago.

All those 'needed gameplay improvements' are obvious after you get to the game, get the idea how to play and meet the limitations, at best half a year or more. All that 'we need cluster munitions' and 'group chainfire... Hell, new player does not understand difference between LRMs and LBX and what weapon groups are. The new player is evaluating exactly that eye-candy first, then drive and challenge, and only later comes to see limitations, imbalances, strange decisions and short-cuts. So the model should be there. Just for a better first implression as you are shown the pilot model at the beginning of every match.

[GRiPSViGiL]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 February 2016 - 10:37 PM, said:

For you, it might not matter, but clearly, you have 0 care for lore, or for the setting, for for anything that makes Battletech well, Battletech.

Makes sense....PGI using free time to stlll get it wrong. Since you bring up lore you realize PGI didn't get that right either right? Ah looks like others have pointed that out to you.

[TexAce]

So we have the guys who say new model is the best approach.
Then we have the guys who want something else instead.
Then we have the guys who only accept naked legs and vests.
Then we have the guys who don't want any change at all.
Then we have the guys who want everything except naked legs and vests.

Man, whatever PGI does, it's wrong, because grown-up men fight like little snitches about every little detail.

[pyrocomp]

TexAce, on 14 February 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

Man, whatever PGI does, it's wrong, because grown-up men fight like little snitches about every little detail.

'Cause it the Devil hiding in very those details we are on a burning crusade.

[GRiPSViGiL]

TexAce, on 14 February 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

So we have the guys who say new model is the best approach.
Then we have the guys who want something else instead.
Then we have the guys who only accept naked legs and vests.
Then we have the guys who don't want any change at all.
Then we have the guys who want everything except naked legs and vests.

Man, whatever PGI does, it's wrong, because grown-up men fight like little snitches about every little detail.

You left off the people that want PGI to prioritize development properly not focusing on what is essentially just fluff, which is the most correct stance IMO.

[TexAce]

GRiPSViGiL, on 14 February 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

You left off the people that want PGI to prioritize development properly not focusing on what is essentially just fluff, which is the most correct stance IMO.

No this is just your personal opinion, nothing more or less.

As its mine that it was a wise decision to update this smudgey crap of pilot model, because the first thing new players see is exactly that and there are enough people talking about this game being ages behind in graphics.

It probably took a good texture artist 2-3 days for the work. And it's jusz that. A new texture. The uv layout stays the same (if it wasn't even improved), the model stays the same. It's just a texture artist as myself who spends time on it. If he hasn't any more important UV layouts or textures to do, he may be well doing the pilot.

[pyrocomp]

GRiPSViGiL, on 14 February 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

You left off the people that want PGI to prioritize development properly not focusing on what is essentially just fluff, which is the most correct stance IMO.

As artists do not code and you know that if right now this week you have no task for them but starting next week there will be a new mech pack and lots of work... Well, you have idle specialists that you do not want to fire (cause you'll need them next week). Question, will they have a week off (you still pay them), will they do something small (to finish this week) worth of their pay or what? Personell, time and resources management is not that simple (as in lots of those hospital/spaceship/hotel/etc sims where you can send anybody doing anything at best with lowered efficiency).