250 replies to this topic

[Steinar Bergstol]

Kaeb Odellas, on 12 February 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

One of the sillier aspects of Battletech lore.

Exposed skin in a cramped cockpit covered in hot surfaces is a very, very bad idea.

Heh. Very true, as anyone wearing shorts in summer who's ever sat their arse down in one of those black leather covered (or fake leather/plastic/whatever) car seats in a car which has been standing in the burning sun all day can attest to. Ouch!

[ScarecrowES]

You guys realize that, ultimately, what the novels say doesn't count... right? Non-canon vs canon sources? Just saying.

[pyrocomp]

ScarecrowES, on 14 February 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

You guys realize that, ultimately, what the novels say doesn't count... right? Non-canon vs canon sources? Just saying.

From Sarna on the question of the canon.

Quote

• 13 February 2016: MWO Hero 'Mechs declared canonical (Frabby)

Line Developer Randall N. Bills expressly confirmed that the fluff for the Hero 'Mechs in MechWarrior Online is considered canonicalfor BattleTech. The storyline for the upcomingBattleTech (Video Game) is also intended to be canonical. This is notable as computer games are otherwise expressly excluded from the definition of canon, being considered apocryphal instead.

E.g. the pilots outfit may also end like a canon a year dow the road.

Second. From Sarna about canon:

Quote

Whatever we establish for research material for the authors is canon.
Currently, that list includes:

• All sourcebooks and novels produced for BattleTech by FASA and Roc in the United States
  
• All sourcebooks and novels produced for Classic BattleTech by FanPro and Roc in the United States
  
• All sourcebooks and novels (including electronic publications, such as BattleCorps) produced by InMediaRes (and its subsidiaries, BattleCorps and Catalyst Game Labs) in the United States
  
• All material produced by WizKids for the MechWarrior: Dark Age/MechWarrior: Age of Destruction game lines

GENERAL INCLUSIVE NOTE: There are a few select instances where a story or article appearing even in these sources may be considered non-canon, but generally this is because the material was in error [...], or it was specifically published as a gag [...].
The list does not include:

• Magazines, even "official" ones such as BattleTechnology, 'Mech, and others
  
• The MechWarrior, MechCommander, and MechAssault video and computer games, as well as the various BattleTech games produced for Nintendo and Sega game systems
  
• The BattleTech cartoon series
  
• The BattleTech comic book series

GENERAL NON-INCLUSIVE NOTE: Despite their non-canonical status, we have not gone into total denial about these sources either, but have simply opted to pick and choose what elements there are "canon" and what are not.

[ScarecrowES]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

Second. From Sarna about canon:

Ultimately though, as the novels often expressly contradict the source material, the source material is the highest-level source. Where there is conflict between "lore" and source, source wins over lore. That's the take-away here.

[pyrocomp]

ScarecrowES, on 14 February 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

Ultimately though, as the novels often expressly contradict the source material, the source material is the highest-level source. Where there is conflict between "lore" and source, source wins over lore. That's the take-away here.

Can you quote the source materials on pilots outfit?

[Ratpoison]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Can you quote the source materials on pilots outfit?

The point is that if PGI's new pilot outfit were to be declared canon(likely with Catalyst's backing), all of the novel references to cooling vests would be considered errata.

[pyrocomp]

tortuousGoddess, on 14 February 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

The point is that if PGI's new pilot outfit were to be declared canon(likely with Catalyst's backing), all of the novel references to cooling vests would be considered errata.

This point came up after the initial post of noncanonicity of the novels described outfit. So I'm still curious.

[Ratpoison]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

the initial post of noncanonicity of the novels described outfit.

You're gonna have to quote that one for me.

[rolly]

GRiPSViGiL, on 12 February 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

Looks good but totally unnecessary to waste resources on but PGI gonna PGi.

Ahhhh but not if they start monetizing custom pilot skins.... PGI certainly is gonna PGI

[TexAce]

rolly, on 14 February 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

Ahhhh but not if they start monetizing custom pilot skins.... PGI certainly is gonna PGI

What is wrong with another income for pgi? I would even advise them to do it. I actually did.

[pyrocomp]

tortuousGoddess, on 14 February 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

You're gonna have to quote that one for me.

ScarecrowES, on 14 February 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

You guys realize that, ultimately, what the novels say doesn't count... right? Non-canon vs canon sources? Just saying.

And after that go quotes from Sarna,

[rolly]

TexAce, on 14 February 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

What is wrong with another income for pgi? I would even advise them to do it. I actually did.

Nothing wrong with an additional income stream. As long as its reasonably priced, good for business = good for game development. I was merely pointing out that they will (as they should) only do something if its profitable. Not just the whim of the player base. This is one avenue.

[pyrocomp]

rolly, on 14 February 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Nothing wrong with an additional income stream. As long as its reasonably priced, good for business = good for game development. I was merely pointing out that they will (as they should) only do something if its profitable. Not just the whim of the player base. This is one avenue.

Whin of the player base is their main source of income. If not the playerbase whim to play this setting this game wouldn't have even existed.

[ScarecrowES]

Description of Star League-era mechwarrior uniforms.

"The uniform worn by a MechWarrior of the Regular Army was a marvel of electronic sophistication.

MechWarriors wore tan long-sleeved shirts and shorts made of a synthetic, heat-resistant cloth woven around a network of tubes of varying diameters. Hookups at the cuff allowed the warrior to connect his gloves to the shirt and cool his hands. Covering the shirt and shorts was a cooling jumpsuit in camouflage colors. Unlike today's jackets, the Star League cooling jumpsuit extended down the front and backs of the warrior's legs and around the feet, preventing MechWarrior Hotfoot, the common modern problem of gradual loss of feeling in the feet caused by repeated exposure to excessive heat. The cooling systems used a synthetic coolant that was three times more efficient than water in removing heat from a person's body. The formula for the liquid has long since been lost. Though the cooling system plugged into the 'Mech as today's cooling jackets do, a warrior of the Regular Army had a pump and heat exchanger on his belt for emergency use.

A Star League warrior's neurohelmet could perform many more functions than today's helmet even though it was smaller and lighter. The neural feedback apparatus was much more sensitive and did not require contact with the wearer's scalp as they do today. The feedback was so sharp and powerful that a warrior could actually fight with his visor and windows blackened, relying on the sensors that feed information directly into the brain.

When properly worn, the uniform was airtight and had its own air supply. This gave the warrior much greater confidence when fighting on a world that had no atmosphere or one that was poisonous. The rank patch appeared near the throat on the helmet pad, though this changed over the years. A warrior kept only small personal weapons, usually only a dagger and what the warriors called their "persuader," a palm-sized laser that had the range and power of today's laser pistols. "

Now, granted, by the time we enter the Succession Wars, each house had its own specific house uniforms, and each one was different. However, if you look at the picture representations of those uniforms, they're all basic variations on this theme. Some may have dropped a full cooling jumpsuit for just the under-suit and vest, for instance, as some of the tech for the SLDF-era cooling suit is lostech. Some have a full basic jumpsuit in addition to the cooling vest. But regardless, what you're seeing in the Successionist-era represents more than a simple pair of shorts. Clans, who derive tech from the SLDF, are generally listed as having suits that conform in type to SLDF ideals, given that theirs wouldn't be lostech.

Beyond that... a full airtight suit is necessary for combat in life-incompatible environments... many of which exist within Mechwarrior Online's maps. You couldn't fight on HPG Manifold, for instance, without a full suit. And there's no arguing that having any exposed skin in a cockpit known readily to get so hot as to produce "gradual loss of feeling in the feet caused by repeated exposure to excessive heat" is a bad bad idea anyway.

Thus, if you can only have one type of suit shown in MWO, it's probably going to be the full air-tight combat suit.

[pyrocomp]

ScarecrowES, on 14 February 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Description of Star League-era mechwarrior uniforms.

...

Give a proper reference and it will [be] a good point to argue about outfits later.
But be ready do get the counter argument as 'those a regulars uniforms and we are mercs and such' [arguments will arise].


Edit: I hate that auto-correction eating word altogether...

Edited by pyrocomp, 14 February 2016 - 10:44 AM.

[MechPorn]

I was really hoping for something along this line (from the PIMP your ride contest):



With Instructions:

Edited by MechPorn, 14 February 2016 - 10:34 AM.

[ScarecrowES]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Give a proper reference and it will a good point to argue about outfits later.
But be ready do get the counter argument as 'those a regulars uniforms and we are mercs and such'.

Confused by the language of your post.

Just stating that this is what the source has to say on the matter. Yes there will be variation of uniform, as I stated. Though, you can't say "we are mercs," as a counterargument to standardized uniforms. Remember that most merc units had military mights in excess of most planetary defenses... all but the smallest units would be fully standardized. Unless you fancy yourself a pirate or lone wolf, you'd probably be in some version of a regular uniform.

Being that more or less all mechwarrior uniforms in the current era had similar tech... namely for IS an under uniform and cooling vest with or without jumpsuit, and clans were likely wearing full SLDF-era cooling suits... if we're going to represent a single uniform type in MWO, it should be a full jumpsuit with cooling apparatus, as shown in the instagram pic. If you only get one, it's the only one that makes sense... though really, minimum, clans and IS should get different suits.

[pyrocomp]

ScarecrowES, on 14 February 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

Confused by the language of your post.

Just stating that this is what the source has to say on the matter. Yes there will be variation of uniform, as I stated. Though, you can't say "we are mercs," as a counterargument to standardized uniforms. Remember that most merc units had military mights in excess of most planetary defenses... all but the smallest units would be fully standardized. Unless you fancy yourself a pirate or lone wolf, you'd probably be in some version of a regular uniform.

Being that more or less all mechwarrior uniforms in the current era had similar tech... namely for IS an under uniform and cooling vest with or without jumpsuit, and clans were likely wearing full SLDF-era cooling suits... if we're going to represent a single uniform type in MWO, it should be a full jumpsuit with cooling apparatus, as shown in the instagram pic. If you only get one, it's the only one that makes sense... though really, minimum, clans and IS should get different suits.

Correction added above (I hate phone's autocorrection eating words).
As for the 'lone wolf'. The player is a lone wolf unless joined a unit of pledged loyalty. Hence might be an idea to change jumpsuit with the change of loyalty or unit (if unit has uniform). Uniforms thus may be sold for MC as cockpit items do.

Edited by pyrocomp, 14 February 2016 - 10:48 AM.

[ScarecrowES]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

Correction added above (I hate phone's autocorrection eating words).
As for the 'lone wolf'. The player is a lone wolf unless joined a unit of pledged loyalty. Hence might be an idea to change jumpsuit with the change of loyalty or unit (if unit has uniform). Uniforms thus may be sold for MC as cockpit items do.

I totally suggested this earlier in the topic... different uniforms for different factions. That would be awesome. I would pay hard cash for a proper, distinct Clan Wolf uniform. I know most of the other whales would do the same for a custom jumpsuit.

[pyrocomp]

ScarecrowES, on 14 February 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

I totally suggested this earlier in the topic... different uniforms for different factions. That would be awesome. I would pay hard cash for a proper, distinct Clan Wolf uniform. I know most of the other whales would do the same for a custom jumpsuit.

Then each write a letter to Russ with promise of hard cash for uniforms. If the proposed sum (integrally) will be worth artists time you will have it.