679 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Mystere, on 15 February 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

That may not be the original intent, but that is where the casuals congregate. And which is also why I think a Solaris mode is necessary. That would make the decision on where to go pretty obvious.

yes if PGI wants some competitive stuff in MWO they better make some solaris styled theme in the game.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Mystere, on 15 February 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

That may not be the original intent, but that is where the casuals congregate. And which is also why I think a Solaris mode is necessary. That would make the decision on where to go pretty obvious.

Solaris is only worth adding, if we can bet on matches with cbills.

[Ted Wayz]

Lily from animove, on 15 February 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

And the circle closes back to PSR. if PSR would be harsh and proper casuals like the OP would not meet the competitive crowd.

Or if it were a leaderboard event type ranking they would never meet the competitive crowd. Think about it, if your best ten matches average in around 3 kills and 600 damage you wouldn't sniff the top tier in that chassis.

But on the flip side, if someone was in the top tier of a skill based ranking in a mixed loadout could you really say anything to them but "gg"?

Edited by Ted Wayz, 15 February 2016 - 08:39 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Ted Wayz, on 15 February 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

Or if it were a leaderboard event type ranking they would never meet the competitive crowd. Think about it, if your best ten matches average in around 3 kills and 600 damage you wouldn't sniff the top tier in that chassis.

But on the flip side, if someone was in the top tier of a skill based ranking in a mixed loadout could you really say anything to them but "gg"?

Well this would either not happening or it is meta. (or soon after will be -but surely hilarious if it would happen).
The issue with a seperated meta queue is there are still people takign the game seriously not wanting to play the high meta stuff. They are the buffer between competitive gamers and casuals, PSR should properly distrubute these players,.

[Ted Wayz]

Lily from animove, on 15 February 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

Well this would either not happening or it is meta. (or soon after will be -but surely hilarious if it would happen).
The issue with a seperated meta queue is there are still people takign the game seriously not wanting to play the high meta stuff. They are the buffer between competitive gamers and casuals, PSR should properly distrubute these players,.

Keep in mind a leaderboard type ranking would be by chassis. So you could be a try hard god in one chassis and Joe Schmoe in another.

[Pardo Kerensky]

this ******** thread is still up?

[Gyrok]

Tasker, on 14 February 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

I've never, ever played another multiplayer game in which the community actively resisted getting better at it.

I think this may be the first time I have ever whole heartedly agreed with something you said...and I laughed so hard I had to leave my workstation for about 5 minutes "to get a drink..."

That might be the funniest, and true, thing I have read in a while...

10/10

[pyrocomp]

Lugh, on 15 February 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

This is wrong. I've seen plenty of lrm5 lights for the lulz that totally gimp their team.

So it wasn't light pilots 'suicide for lulz' playstyle? What about people in 'optimum' builds going AFK and LeeeeroyJeeeenkiiiins, do they gimp the team?
It is always a pilot who gimps the team, and only at all other things being equal the build starts to matter. But, again, after pilots dedication, decisions, attitude and luck.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tasker, on 14 February 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

I've never, ever played another multiplayer game in which the community actively resisted getting better at it.

As long as I'm still better than the majority of players I encounter, even while using my "non-optimal" builds, then people can kiss it where it smells funny.

If vanilla cookie cutter copypasta mechs tickle your Elmo, then bon appetite. They bore me. I don't play games on my down time to be bored. I play to have fun and challenge myself.

And if you're dead, and commenting on my build or play? Send pretty rich since chances are you've contributed less than me.... Or you wouldn't have the free time to run your pieholes, eh?

[Gyrok]

pyrocomp, on 15 February 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

So it wasn't light pilots 'suicide for lulz' playstyle? What about people in 'optimum' builds going AFK and LeeeeroyJeeeenkiiiins, do they gimp the team?
It is always a pilot who gimps the team, and only at all other things being equal the build starts to matter. But, again, after pilots dedication, decisions, attitude and luck.

Both can gimp the team...

I have seen good pilots in terrible builds gimp a team...like ON1-IIC with LRMs and 2 LPL for example.

I have seen terrible pilots in great builds gimp a team...like a scrub driving a laser vomit TW and putting up 50 damage

[Bishop Steiner]

Pardo Kerensky, on 15 February 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

this ******** thread is still up?

What's it to you? No one forcing you to read it.

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 February 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

And if you're dead, and commenting on my build or play? Send pretty rich since chances are you've contributed less than me.... Or you wouldn't have the free time to run your pieholes, eh?

The last time someone told me that staying alive was a measure of contributing, they were the last mech standing in a wipe...did 96 damage in a LRM boat, and I died 3 minutes into the match with 500 damage and the only 2 kills.

Just saying...the position you took is a matter of perspective.

[wanderer]

Gyrok, on 15 February 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

The last time someone told me that staying alive was a measure of contributing, they were the last mech standing in a wipe...did 96 damage in a LRM boat, and I died 3 minutes into the match with 500 damage and the only 2 kills.

Just saying...the position you took is a matter of perspective.

Staying alive alone isn't contributing much. Delivering damage does, although a dead 'Mech gives 0 DPS.

It's why I lob missiles (but prefer heavies to do it). I can fire at whatever's in my line of sight, and I look for my own targets. If I don't have a clean shot? I look for opportunity shots around me, and LRMs let me maximize the time spent firing at enemies vs. lining up shots. People who use LRMs as an excuse to not be aggressive get a thumbs down, but strapping a few LRM tubes on an assault means you can start putting damage down the line faster and sooner? IMHO that's good.- although if your job is to crash into a line and basically get killed while brawling to break it, you're probably better off with SRMs.

[pyrocomp]

Gyrok, on 15 February 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Both can gimp the team...

I have seen good pilots in terrible builds gimp a team...like ON1-IIC with LRMs and 2 LPL for example.

I have seen terrible pilots in great builds gimp a team...like a scrub driving a laser vomit TW and putting up 50 damage

Somehow it takes really bad build or lack of understanding how to use it. True, happens, but a not-todays-fashion-for-optimum build is not always terribad and if a player uses it efficiently then it is better than a terribab pilot in optimum build (if we return to beginning of the thread).

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 15 February 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

The last time someone told me that staying alive was a measure of contributing, they were the last mech standing in a wipe...did 96 damage in a LRM boat, and I died 3 minutes into the match with 500 damage and the only 2 kills.

Just saying...the position you took is a matter of perspective.

And the last few dozen times the "Pro Peanut Gallery" mother off their expertise, most had died in the first 2 minutes and contributed less than 200dmg, most barely over 100 and no kills. Compared to my 5-800 dmg and 3+ kills.

I've found very few truly competent players who mouth of like morons, at least since POOFSmash, Viges or Crunk left the picture.

The vast majority of back seat driving "pros" have been laughably bad.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 February 2016 - 10:36 AM.

[Jetfire]

I will save my critique's for untenable builds like an Atlas with a single LRM 20 or a Single ER LL. I may not agree with your build but at least it can do some work.

[Dahkoht]

People who mouth off and take video game playing as serious business are obviously lacking in basic social skills if they are over the age of 12.

If they were in any way actually skilled or intelligent they would realize polite advice , and nothing more , works best for actual adults.

I just pity the self proclaimed "Pro's" who go off rudely in chat because they usually are laughed at by a majority in the group , and I imagine it's that way for them in real life.

I can only imagine what a sad little existence they have with their only self worth they have coming from pixels in a game.

[Roughneck45]

The only builds that bother me these days are the ones where they CLEARLY didn't know what they were doing. The build isn't optimized and is often severely undergunned, ending up with the firepower of mechs way beneath their weight class.

Like an atlas with 2 large lasers, an LRM 10 and 1000 missiles.

I don't get angry though. I get more worried that their impression of the game is negatively affected because they don't realize they have a terrible build. So they get roflstomped over and over and feel they aren't contributing.

Edited by Roughneck45, 15 February 2016 - 11:07 AM.

[Gyrok]

Dahkoht, on 15 February 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

I can only imagine what a sad little existence they have with their only self worth they have coming from pixels in a game.

I am not sure who you are directing that toward...but it feels like a blanket statement affront to everyone who says LRMs are bad.

Let me assure you...I stopped taking this game seriously a long time ago. However, when I play, I still want to win. That is where my enjoyment comes from...and you, or anyone else's, bad build assault mech encroaches upon my enjoyment when I have to carry you in a match.

I do not run builds from some website, I develop my own ideas of what I want to run, and what I am comfortable with, and I use those builds. Keep in mind, you will find only one mech out of 140+ in my account that has LRMs, and it is a 6LRM5 troll MDD that I built because I ran out of builds on the other variants...I literally have less than 50 matches played in that mech in the entire time I have been playing MWO.

There is a difference between diverting from website builds and still using effective weapons, and running a flat out bad build.

Any time you bring LRMs into a higher tier match, you condemned your team to carry you. This is not a question of skill, it is a matter of bringing an outright inferior weapon system. The reason the meta is what it is, would be because those weapons are those that are most effective in the game.

For example, the IS LPL is super meta for IS builds right now...why? Because per 1/10 second, it does more damage than any other laser weapon in the game, clan or IS, by an absurdly huge margin. Sure, you can lasers without LPLs, but you are doing yourself, and your team, a disservice.

There are other weapons that are really effective right now...and you see those weapons in some mix on many mechs. A build I like to run right now quite a bit is a WHM with Gauss + 3 LL. It is absolutely brutal. LLs are pretty meta, and so is Gauss, but I have not often encountered the 2 together on a lot of builds.

Reality is, not everyone gets enjoyment from playing bad builds, and dragging their team down. The sooner you learn to accept that your definition of fun also invades the definition of fun for others in a TEAM game, the better off you will be. As it stands, me bringing a carry build helps the team, and I enjoy being able to carry. If I have to carry you, and you look up and see my 65 T hellbringer rock 800 damage while your LRM atlas only pulled 400, do not wonder why. You were handicapped before your mech left the mech bay with a bad build.

[MischiefSC]

I always find the hyperbole funny in these threads. Like somehow putting effort into finding out what works and why is some sort of hack or exploit.

The meta isn't some clique or fashion statement. It's just a reduction of what works best most consistently.

That's it. It's a identification of what the most efficiently successful designs and methods are.

The Pants Before Shoes meta isn't some restrictive cultural policy designed to oppress the Shoes First masses for exercising their getting dressed creativity. You put your pants on before your shoes because it works better. Putting your shoes on first is just stupid. If someone tells you that it's just more comfortable for them you're going to realize that they're just being dense.

What works best I'd what works best. It's not a conspiracy, it's not some plot to steal your fun. This is compounded by the fact that this is not a single player game - you deciding to put on shoes before pants slows your whole team getting dressed. Saying "I still get dressed just fine" is pretty goofy, pants THEN shoes is just better. You can get into why but that doesn't change that it's better.

The other big problem is that because some people don't understand why some things work better than others they don't believe anyone else has figured it out either. This gets compounded again when you have people who think anyone who understands something better than them is a bully or trying to trick them.