704 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

pbiggz, on 02 April 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

nobody wanted the viper and now we have it. Thats why staying in 3053 is stupid.

At the time we got them, nobody was asking for three and eventually four more Locust variants, but we got them. And I and many others bought them. Because they are cool.

Yo.

[pbiggz]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

And way to ignore the amount of work required to timeline jump. Your refusal to accept or even admit to that is where you and I have our disconnect.

And actually, I can honestly say I've seen at least as many people in the forums who wanted the Viper as the mkII. Just nobody pushing one thread on them to the point of driving off possible supporters.

Your 3060s are coming. Just not before the 3050s are done (to Russ's satisfaction). Getting salty with me and everyone else about it, doesn't change it, and if anything will just make your experience while you wait even less pleasant.

If you are happy with the Viper then I encourage you to buy it, but I expect sales will reflect what many people feel, and that is the 3050s grew old a long time ago.

Also, the only actual indicator of the timeline in the game is the CW map, which, last I checked, would be unrecognizable to a lore nerd.

All PGI needs to do to make it 3060 is say its 3060, and start adding those mechs, but Im not going to argue with you, because you think that PGI can balance a half finished system, where the Clans have a full compliment of weapons and the IS have barely half of their tech 2 as an answer, where the omnimech system ostensibly designed to give clan mechs greater flexibility makes clan omnimechs without a doubt the least flexible mechs in the game.

Im not salty at you personally bishop, but im tired of this never ending cycle of mediocrity. If the game could have been great, im sad to say, It would have become great long ago.

The Viper looks cool, no surprise there, alex is a wizard, it might even be fun. It'll be a one trick pony, just like so many other clan omnimechs.

Edited by pbiggz, 02 April 2016 - 11:23 AM.

[CK16]

Well lately in my goal of learning more about Battletech, the Viper is an important clan mech, all those originals are important. It will sell alright I feel. Though yes PGI needs to move ahead, we all are agreeing that, it's just not for another 12 months probably I predict next spring we will get our Civil war and new tech and mechs.

You are right by saying these next mechs might not sell so well, but they have to get them out of the way, they have toan. The important ones need to be added. My Mk.II has had me reading alot of TRO's and such trust me Mk.II is still top of my list but others are becoming interesting. As long as it's newer Clan I fine.

[Bishop Steiner]

CK16, on 02 April 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

Well lately in my goal of learning more about Battletech, the Viper is an important clan mech, all those originals are important. It will sell alright I feel. Though yes PGI needs to move ahead, we all are agreeing that, it's just not for another 12 months probably I predict next spring we will get our Civil war and new tech and mechs.

You are right by saying these next mechs might not sell so well, but they have to get them out of the way, they have toan. The important ones need to be added. My Mk.II has had me reading alot of TRO's and such trust me Mk.II is still top of my list but others are becoming interesting. As long as it's newer Clan I fine.

reading TROs is always a fun way to spend an afternoon. Of course, I have to "theory" rebuild (and redraw) almost all of them, but eh, just adds to the fun.

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 02 April 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

Well lately in my goal of learning more about Battletech, the Viper is an important clan mech, all those originals are important. It will sell alright I feel. Though yes PGI needs to move ahead, we all are agreeing that, it's just not for another 12 months probably I predict next spring we will get our Civil war and new tech and mechs.

You are right by saying these next mechs might not sell so well, but they have to get them out of the way, they have toan. The important ones need to be added. My Mk.II has had me reading alot of TRO's and such trust me Mk.II is still top of my list but others are becoming interesting. As long as it's newer Clan I fine.

CK I'm glad to hear that you are expanding your knowledge on BT, it's a very interesting universe, with lots of neat mechs in it. A lot of the ones still to be added from TRO 3025, like the two most common mechs in the BT universe being the Stinger and Wasp. Admittedly, they would be strange mechs as far as MWO goes, they are slow (6/9/6, 120 series engines) for 20t mechs, but very well armed for 20t mechs.

[cazidin]

Will PGI include new equipment, new weapons, etc with the engine upgrade?

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 02 April 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Will PGI include new equipment, new weapons, etc with the engine upgrade?

Very unlikely.

Just porting to the new engine will be pretty intensive, if even realistically (resource wise) possible.

New Weapons/Equipment (aka timeline shift) will happen eventually, but it's as massive an undertaking as the Clan Invasion was, which took 6+ months to launch (and another year after to sort of tweak into shape, kinda). With more staff, it might be a bit quicker a process now, especially since they are more familiar with the hurdles involved, but both undertakings are pretty massive and resource wise, pretty likely mutually exclusive.

[CK16]

I wonder how they can drop it now though, if no more packs. It won't be a massive one time drop kinda deal like the Clans were. I had an idea of 2 four packs IS and Clan mechs either as 2 different faction packs or 2 of each faction pet pack and at the end that 200 ish price tag, *shrug* we will see. I know I brought up new faction skins, could be a way to add them as well. Like Nova Cat comes with Clan Nova Cat camo and stuff. Mad Cat Mk.II with Diamond shark stuff ect.

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

And way to ignore the amount of work required to timeline jump. Your refusal to accept or even admit to that is where you and I have our disconnect.

And actually, I can honestly say I've seen at least as many people in the forums who wanted the Viper as the mkII. Just nobody pushing one thread on them to the point of driving off possible supporters.

Your 3060s are coming. Just not before the 3050s are done (to Russ's satisfaction). Getting salty with me and everyone else about it, doesn't change it, and if anything will just make your experience while you wait even less pleasant.

Just a counterpoint here... moving the timeline to 3059 would not be the least bit difficult. Assuming no new tech is added to the game immediately at that point, moving to 3059 only requires small reworks to the existing galaxy map to show the state of the sphere in 3059... which has the Clans having marched half-way to Terra, and several Clans now positioned in (and fighting for) the Inner Sphere. The amount of work required to do this is negligible.

Moreover, the setup of CW as it now... Clan vs Inner Sphere, still applies in 3059. But now you have each side fighting for the same goal - to push the other side back to their homeworld - with the ready state having each side half-way to their goal. The state of the galaxy in 3059 is much more conducive to CW than 3050 is. Beyond that, you've now provided 3 potential end-game outcomes for each CW session. 1) Inner Sphere pushes the Clans back to Strana Mechty and capture it. IS wins. 2) The Clans push the Inner Sphere back to Terra and capture it. Clans win. 3) An extended stalemate could bring about a Great Refusal-style tournament to end the session. Whichever side wins the tournament wins the session.

Beyond that, the state of the galaxy in 3059 provides the perfect setting to introduce new tech and conflicts. From 3059 to the Jihad, the map remains largely the same. Most pre-Jihad tech has been introduced both in the IS and Clan space by 3059. If we move to 3059, we don't have to worry how introducing factions or tech or conflicts will effect the overall state of the game. And since there are former Clans in the Inner Sphere and fighting on that side, we can drop this pretention of divided tech... and in doing so provide a more even playing field in which to balance the game. You'd finally be able to make IS and Clan tech equal without requiring they be the same (something only required by the current tech divisions in CW... pubs doesn't require the strict equality).

SO personally, I'd argue that not only is it very EASY to move to 3059, but it's absolutely the smartest thing for PGI to do for the game.

[Jackal Noble]

Wow, very interesting post CK16. Appreciate the time and research you put into this. Downloaded your mkII image and am gonna sketch on it a bit, although low on finer details it is a nice model. Also, where the heck did you get those green schematics, they are pretty cool.

[CK16]

JackalBeast, on 03 April 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

Wow, very interesting post CK16. Appreciate the time and research you put into this. Downloaded your mkII image and am gonna sketch on it a bit, although low on finer details it is a nice model. Also, where the heck did you get those green schematics, they are pretty cool.

Made them my self

[CK16]

Scarecrow it does not matter....At this time Clan could Fight Clan if they so chose to...You can attack anyone on your border even "allies" if you so chose to. IF they add Nova Cat territory it would be just as Clan and IS space is now they could attack Ghost Bear/Smoke Jag OR Kurtia, nothing will change IS vs Clan here....BTW don't pull Mk.II is best for IS only...You got me going enough to dig up the Random Unit list from 3067 (Field Manual Updates) and Force Faction Table (Combat Operations)...Also if you throw the MUL at me again go look at the MUL for the Nova Cat bud for the Era's. Clan General PLUS you do see it with Smoke Jag on there as well (no idea how though)

[LastKhan]

Man forget this MK2 nonsense this is all about the BLITZKRIEG now!

[CK16]

LastKhan, on 03 April 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

Man forget this MK2 nonsense this is all about the BLITZKRIEG now!

**** son that thing looks like I might have competition now! D:

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

Very unlikely.

Just porting to the new engine will be pretty intensive, if even realistically (resource wise) possible.

New Weapons/Equipment (aka timeline shift) will happen eventually, but it's as massive an undertaking as the Clan Invasion was, which took 6+ months to launch (and another year after to sort of tweak into shape, kinda). With more staff, it might be a bit quicker a process now, especially since they are more familiar with the hurdles involved, but both undertakings are pretty massive and resource wise, pretty likely mutually exclusive.

It sounds like we won't see any new tech until mid next year then, at best.

[Bishop Steiner]

ScarecrowES, on 03 April 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

Just a counterpoint here... moving the timeline to 3059 would not be the least bit difficult. Assuming no new tech is added to the game immediately at that point, moving to 3059 only requires small reworks to the existing galaxy map to show the state of the sphere in 3059... which has the Clans having marched half-way to Terra, and several Clans now positioned in (and fighting for) the Inner Sphere. The amount of work required to do this is negligible.

Moreover, the setup of CW as it now... Clan vs Inner Sphere, still applies in 3059. But now you have each side fighting for the same goal - to push the other side back to their homeworld - with the ready state having each side half-way to their goal. The state of the galaxy in 3059 is much more conducive to CW than 3050 is. Beyond that, you've now provided 3 potential end-game outcomes for each CW session. 1) Inner Sphere pushes the Clans back to Strana Mechty and capture it. IS wins. 2) The Clans push the Inner Sphere back to Terra and capture it. Clans win. 3) An extended stalemate could bring about a Great Refusal-style tournament to end the session. Whichever side wins the tournament wins the session.

Beyond that, the state of the galaxy in 3059 provides the perfect setting to introduce new tech and conflicts. From 3059 to the Jihad, the map remains largely the same. Most pre-Jihad tech has been introduced both in the IS and Clan space by 3059. If we move to 3059, we don't have to worry how introducing factions or tech or conflicts will effect the overall state of the game. And since there are former Clans in the Inner Sphere and fighting on that side, we can drop this pretention of divided tech... and in doing so provide a more even playing field in which to balance the game. You'd finally be able to make IS and Clan tech equal without requiring they be the same (something only required by the current tech divisions in CW... pubs doesn't require the strict equality).

SO personally, I'd argue that not only is it very EASY to move to 3059, but it's absolutely the smartest thing for PGI to do for the game.

except that realistically, "jumping to 3059" in name only really accomplishes what? If we aren't adding the tech developed in the 3050s, than even most of the Variants start running into issues. ATMs, MRMs, IS LBX, UAC, SIlver Bullet Gauss, etc are just touching the tech developed pre 3059.

Doing something halfazz is a bigger waste of time than doing nothing at all.

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 03 April 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

It sounds like we won't see any new tech until mid next year then, at best.

Quite possible. Accepting that is the best path to not getting all burned out and frustrated like Impy, who kept convincing himself we were all wrong, and Timeline Jump, mkII etc was just around the corner.... despite that never being the case. And when things were finally spelled out in no uncertain terms, BAM.

Hope for the best, expect the worst and reality usually lands somewhere in between. But I would say January 2017 would be the earliest I would expect to see a shift, realistically.

[LastKhan]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

except that realistically, "jumping to 3059" in name only really accomplishes what? If we aren't adding the tech developed in the 3050s, than even most of the Variants start running into issues. ATMs, MRMs, IS LBX, UAC, SIlver Bullet Gauss, etc are just touching the tech developed pre 3059.

Doing something halfazz is a bigger waste of time than doing nothing at all.

I agree and jumping sporadically would just screw any balancing PGI was ever doing by adding more stuff.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

Doing something halfazz is a bigger waste of time than doing nothing at all.

The irony in that statement is nothing short of pure gold when talking in context of PGI...

cazidin, on 03 April 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

It sounds like we won't see any new tech until mid next year then, at best.

You'd be lucky if that.

Assuming the game is still alive in 1.5 years. I'll be shocked if they can keep this shipwreck afloat for another 2 years.

inb4 ppl been saying that since 2013, but spoilers! It hasn't improved at all since then.

Edited by 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie, 03 April 2016 - 07:46 PM.

[CK16]

Updated took some time to make an Orthos