114 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 17 February 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

The clanner with his larger alpha brought into range hits for more damage.

They have similar range, 3 LPLs on the QKD had around 450m iirc, so no, you still aren't getting it.

Dimento Graven, on 17 February 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

The IS gets, what? One extra alpha before he has to start doing the same?

3 LPL is only 21 heat before quirks, and the 3 LPL QKD had plenty of DHS. So he can squeeze in a lot more than you think.

Dimento Graven, on 17 February 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

BS, Clan alphas are typically much higher than their IS equivalents

Depends on the mech, the biggest hitters of the current meta we already compared (and the Timmy typically does not run the full laser vomit), so you can definitely build them to compete with Clan laser vomit. Barring the Whale which is a special case.

That said, for some variants, it is better to just abuse the amazing-ness that is the iLPL because quite a few IS mechs can poke really well.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 February 2016 - 01:19 PM.

[Khobai]

6 LL Stalker = 54 damage alpha @ 450m optimum/900m maximum for 42 heat
ADDITIONALLY AS QUIRKS: Stalker gets +15% LL range, -10% LL cooldown, -10% LL heat as quirks.
With 10% range module thats 1125m max range

4 ERML, 2LPL Timber Wolf = 54 damage alpha @ 405m optimum/688m maximum for 44 heat
Timberwolf get no quirks
With 10% range module and 4% range from TC1 thats like 785m max range
The LPL obviously have more range so the Timberwolf isnt totally helpless beyond 785m, but its still
inferior to the damage output of the Stalker at long range.

As far as mech characteristics go:
The Stalker has more armor and better hitboxes.
Timberwolf is much faster and more agile.

So yeah im really not seeing any clear advantage for either side. IS still gets better damage at range and tankier mechs. Clans get way faster mechs with better agility. Its pretty close to balanced if you ask me...

Edited by Khobai, 17 February 2016 - 01:37 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 17 February 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

They have similar range, 3 LPLs on the QKD had around 450m iirc, so no, you still aren't getting it.

3 LPL is only 21 heat before quirks, and the 3 LPL QKD had plenty of DHS. So he can squeeze in a lot more than you think.

Depends on the mech, the biggest hitters of the current meta we already compared (and the Timmy typically does not run the full laser vomit), so you can definitely build them to compete with Clan laser vomit. Barring the Whale which is a special case.

What did the Clan equivalent bring to that battle though? You mentioned the Timby, checking Smurfys, it has stock builds with alphas ranging from 47 to 84 points of damage. It seems to be if all the QKD brought was 3LPL's, even with plenty of heat sinks, he's out gunned by anyone who even half tries to customize their Timby build for a large efficient alpha.

So I gotta know in your comparison of the QKD vs. Clan, what was that Clan 'mech and what'd he bring to the fight?

Quote

That said, for some variants, it is better to just abuse the amazing-ness that is the iLPL because quite a few IS mechs can poke really well.

That's why when I fight those 'really good' pokers, I do one of two things, depending on the 'mech I'm in:

A. Close the distance with as much speed and cover as possible so that it's no longer a peek-n-poke fight, but a down and dirty brawl.
B. Get outside the LPL range and let him peek all he wants while I whittle him away.

[Dimento Graven]

Khobai, on 17 February 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

6 LL Stalker = 54 damage alpha @ 450m optimum/900m maximum for 42 heat
ADDITIONALLY AS QUIRKS: Stalker gets +15% LL range, -10% LL cooldown, -10% LL heat as quirks.
With 10% range module thats 1125m max range

4 ERML, 2LPL Timber Wolf = 54 damage alpha @ 405m optimum/688m maximum for 44 heat
Clan mechs get no quirks
With 10% range module and 4% range from TC1 thats like 785m max range

In this particular case the Timby is a heavy at 75 tons, and MUCH faster than the 85 ton assault Stalker.

You don't face tank that, you use your speed advantage to hit him where he can't hit you, 87kph vs ~64kph (at best).

[Khobai]

Quote

In this particular case the Timby is a heavy at 75 tons, and MUCH faster than the 85 ton assault Stalker.

But the Stalker has a massive range advantage.

YOU MEAN IS HAS TO POSITION THEMSELVES WHERE THEIR RANGE ADVANTAGE CAN BE EXPLOITED?

AND CLANS HAVE TO TRY TO OUTMANEUVER THEM SO THEY CANT EXPLOIT IT?

ITS ALMOST LIKE TACTICS OR SOMETHING

Edited by Khobai, 17 February 2016 - 01:40 PM.

[Gyrok]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 17 February 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

That said, for some variants, it is better to just abuse the amazing-ness that is the iLPL because quite a few IS mechs can poke really well.

I simply cannot understand how anyone talking about balance does not recognize how absurdly strong the IS LPL is right now...range quirks at all make it the best energy weapon in the game bar none inside the optimum range it operates. Making that range bigger makes it even more crazy OP.

[Dimento Graven]

Khobai, on 17 February 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

But the Stalker has a massive range advantage.

YOU MEAN IS HAS TO POSITION THEMSELVES WHERE THEIR RANGE ADVANTAGE CAN BE EXPLOITED?

AND CLANS HAVE TO TRY TO OUTMANEUVER THEM SO THEY CANT EXPLOIT IT?

ITS ALMOST LIKE TACTICS OR SOMETHING

Yeah, god forbid we force certain Clan pilots to actually have to think, and not just charge in face first mindlessly alpha'ing...

Of course NOW, that range advantage is nearly gone due to the last de-quirkening, unless of course we assume that the IS Pilot ONLY brings LL's and the Clan Pilot ONLY brings ERML's...

[Gas Guzzler]

Gyrok, on 17 February 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

I simply cannot understand how anyone talking about balance does not recognize how absurdly strong the IS LPL is right now...range quirks at all make it the best energy weapon in the game bar none inside the optimum range it operates. Making that range bigger makes it even more crazy OP.

It is great if your strategy doesn't involve poking from 600-700 + meters. It is also the heaviest energy weapon in the game, tied with the IS PPC.

[Dimento Graven]

Gyrok, on 17 February 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

I simply cannot understand how anyone talking about balance does not recognize how absurdly strong the IS LPL is right now...range quirks at all make it the best energy weapon in the game bar none inside the optimum range it operates. Making that range bigger makes it even more crazy OP.

Yes, yes, yes... Let's get all myopic and ignore every other aspect of Clans that make them superior.

That'll help "balance"...

[Khobai]

Quote

Of course NOW, that range advantage is nearly gone due to the last de-quirkening, unless of course we assume that the IS Pilot ONLY brings LL's and the Clan Pilot ONLY brings ERML's...

IS Pilots DO ONLY BRING LLs, ERLLs, and LPLs in the current meta.

Clan pilots bring LPLs and CERMLs mostly. Youre starting to see CERLLs make a comeback though because theyre not completely outclassed by their IS equivalents anymore.

Edited by Khobai, 17 February 2016 - 01:55 PM.

[Gyrok]

Dimento Graven, on 17 February 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Yes, yes, yes... Let's get all myopic and ignore every other aspect of Clans that make them superior.

That'll help "balance"...

The only one ignoring anything right now is you...

Now please, show me on the paper doll where the bad clan mech touched you.

Edited by Gyrok, 17 February 2016 - 01:54 PM.

[pwnface]

Gyrok = Clan fanboy
Dimento = IS fanboy

You guys should both stop talking about balance forever.

Look at the tech without a lens of bias please, you guys are both way too extreme.

Khobai, on 17 February 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

IS Pilots DO ONLY BRING LLs, ERLLs, and LPLs in the current meta.

That's not true at all.

BJ-1X brings none of those weapons.
Atlas brings none of those weapons.
Maulers bring none of those weapons.
GRF-3M brings none of those weapons.
TDR-5SS brings none of those weapons.
IS lights except the RVN-4X bring none of these weapons.

See what happens when you make terrible blanket statements?

Edited by pwnface, 17 February 2016 - 01:56 PM.

[Eider]

Lets compare the two more honestly:
Better range: Clans
XL engines that dont pop: Clans
More damage on weapons: Clans
Top mechs in all classes: Clans
Cooler looking mechs: IS

Yep proof positive that IS is OP. NERF MOAR.

[Khobai]

Quote

BJ-1X brings none of those weapons.
Atlas brings none of those weapons.
Maulers bring none of those weapons.
GRF-3M brings none of those weapons.
TDR-5SS brings none of those weapons.

who uses blackjacks anymore? youre playing old meta still... blackjack structure nerfs demoted it to useless.

and when was the atlas ever meta? lmao...

A lot of those mechs arnt even competitive in the current meta.

[Dimento Graven]

Gyrok, on 17 February 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

The only one ignoring anything right now is you...

Ah yes, let's look at that "absurdly strong the IS LPL".

LRG PULSE LASER
Damage: 11.00
HEAT: 7.00
Range: 365
Max Range: 730

Apparently in the version of MWO you play, Clans don't bring any weapons that can do damage at greater range?

This one weapon completely breaks the game, negates ALL OTHER Clan advantages, and now MWO is jeopardy of imploding because of it...

Quote

Now please, show me on the paper doll where the bad clan mech touched you.

Projecting much? Apparently the IS with their short range LPL's are fondling you a bit too hard...

[H I A S]

Khobai, on 17 February 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

who uses blackjacks anymore? youre playing old meta still... blackjack structure nerfs demoted it to useless.

and when was the atlas ever meta? lmao...

A lot of those mechs arnt even competitive in the current meta.

Do you play comp?

Atlas? Yes
Mauler? Yes
Griffin? I take the 2N

Edited by arivio, 17 February 2016 - 02:12 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Sandpit, on 17 February 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

ding ding ding

When you "balance" an entire weapon system based on how it performed in one singular chassis...


well, sorry that's simply not balance. That's not how anyone wanting good balance in ANYthing balances.

It would be like this

@=$
$=@
But, when @ is placed inside ()
(@)>$
so let's adjust @ based on that
now (@)=$
but now
@<$

In other words, @ is equal to $ in terms of balance. Once @ is placed inside of () though, it becomes greater than $, but only in that instance.
So now if you balance it in a vacuum and only based on how @ is balanced in regards to that one example, you wind up with a weapon that's sub-par in everything BUT that one particular instance.

Which is why you don't balance weapon systems based on things like this.

All of this.

Also, the Clan meta I've seen the most recently is the SRM-rawking TBR. That thing blows through armor in one alpha. It's sick.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 17 February 2016 - 02:14 PM.

[pwnface]

Khobai, on 17 February 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

who uses blackjacks anymore? youre playing old meta still... blackjack structure nerfs demoted it to useless.

and when was the atlas ever meta? lmao...

A lot of those mechs arnt even competitive in the current meta.

BJ-1X is still a fantastic mech. Who is teaching you to meta? Do you even play competitive bro?

All of the mechs I listed have been played with some frequency both in MRBC last season and in MS Invitational which is happening right now.

I'm not sure who you are getting your "meta tips" from but you are overpaying man.

Edited by pwnface, 17 February 2016 - 02:15 PM.

[Gyrok]

pwnface, on 17 February 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Gyrok = Clan fanboy
Dimento = IS fanboy

You guys should both stop talking about balance forever.

Look at the tech without a lens of bias please, you guys are both way too extreme.



That's not true at all.

BJ-1X brings none of those weapons.
Atlas brings none of those weapons.
Maulers bring none of those weapons.
GRF-3M brings none of those weapons.
TDR-5SS brings none of those weapons.
IS lights except the RVN-4X bring none of these weapons.

See what happens when you make terrible blanket statements?

pwnface = stahp!

To prove a point...

Question for you:

What is the strongest energy weapon in the game inside 365m before quirks or modules by a massive landslide?

If you take that weapon and give it more range, is it not still the strongest energy weapon in the game inside whatever range you decide to give it?

Edited by Gyrok, 17 February 2016 - 02:20 PM.

[pwnface]

arivio, on 17 February 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

Do you play comp?

Atlas? Yes
Mauler? Yes
Griffin? I take the 2N

2N / 3M are both viable brawlers. Depends on if you want the ECM or not.

Gyrok, on 17 February 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

pwnface = STFU pwnface because no one asked you.

See what happens when you make terrible blanket statements?

Please show us that Mauler build that is better than DireWolves again.

Yeah the one with 2 medium lasers on arms that have 2 armor each and 36 leg armor on one leg.

Let's not pretend you aren't a huge clan fanboy out to get all IS mechs nerfed into unplayability.

Edited by pwnface, 17 February 2016 - 02:18 PM.