189 replies to this topic

[Rock Roller]

Stuffer, on 03 July 2016 - 04:18 PM, said:

I have to say, unlike some others here, I've had great success with the PXH so far. The -1B is definitely my favorite with ERPPC, 1LL, 2ML. I've also had consistently good results in the -2 and -3S. It took me a little bit of time to figure out exactly how to play the mech but now that I have, it has been a lot of fun. As long as I stay cognizant of my position relative to my teammates and the enemy, I can put out a lot of dmg without getting focused down myself. Mobility and speed are its greatest strengths so stay in motion, be unpredictable and hit their flanks.

Ultimately, it plays like an oversized light. While this may seem like a big negative on the surface, I don't think it is. As any skilled light pilot will tell you, it's not about the size or hitboxes as much as it is about using your speed and mobility to stay one step ahead of the enemy so you can put out dmg without taking return fire.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

I have had a lot of fun on the mech. I have even had quite a few solid damage/kill games. So far top kills is 4,and over 700 damage. The problem I have is not with hit boxes. I agree that speed and jjs will take care of that. My problem is the arms. So many games you have no arms, you can't afford to shield with them and they seem to pop off. There goes your okay damage.

Please add 1b structure to all variants and extra arm structure or armor. This isn't a new problem for mechs with arm mounted weapons.. The same solution they have used on many other mechs would bring the PHX to a better but not overpowered place..

[Stuffer]

The arms are definitely a big weakness for the PXH. I've found that, in a pinch, if you pop your jets to get some elevation on whoever is shooting you, they'll end up putting most damage into your legs and buy your arms some more fighting time.

[Bud Crue]

So far I kept the 1B, 1K, 2 and 3S. Gotta admit that I am leaning toward dumping the lot. Only thing they offer over similar weight mechs is ECM and I really don't think ECM matters that much anymore.

--The 1B if outfitted to take advantage of the high shoulder mount and the PPC quirk, plays like a BJ-3 but worse. Yes, you can make the Phx a bit faster but only at the cost of fire power. The addition of ECM and a bit of speed is not worth the loss of firepower imo. BJ-3 wins no matter what the build I can come up with.

--Apropos Black Jack comparisons: In re the PHX-1K, in order to take advantage of the 8 hard points you end up making it essentially the same as a BJ-1x...but with more fragility and lower hardpoints. BJ-1x is just better.

--In re the the PHX-2, it is the only one I have anything approaching a positive feel for. I tried a fast build with 6ML or a mid speed build with a variety of energy weapons, and nothing seems to feel right. Currently running it with 3ERLL and it is the only variant thus far that feels like it has potential but still feels fairly uninspired.

--That brings us to the 3s. Had thought this would be a lot of fun. Started with the XL350 and MASK idea for maximum speed potential, but that leaves a whole 10 tons for weapons (assuming near max armor). Even with that speed boost, I was never able to get in range fast enough with 3MPL and 2MG to do anything more than trivial damage before losing my arms or dying. Tried 2LL as well as 1LPL and 2ML and both were equally ineffective. Switched it over to a smaller engine and the 3ERLLs (see above) and did better, but the ECM of the 2 is much more useful that the MASK for that sort of a poke/snipe build so it feels kinda pointless. Finally dropped the engine and did the ac10/3ml build and its ok, but I would rather play a BJ-1 with an AC20 and 3ML.

That is my "assessment" of those four variants and atm, I am thinking that they are not worth keeping. I can't imagine PGI giving them much additional love quirk-wise that would make them more useful (or more fun) than the Black Jack. Be interested to hear how Vindi fans think the PHX compares to them.

[Podex]

In its current state, the mech blows. I would have been better off buying Betamax.

It needs quirks, badly.

[Stuffer]

Podex, on 07 July 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

In its current state, the mech blows. I would have been better off buying Betamax.

It needs quirks, badly.

From a competitive standpoint, I completely agree with you. In a competitive environment, this 'Mech does not hold up and no amount of quirks will fix that in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I definitely think it could use some love on the arms as well as some generic weapon quirks, but none of that will make it a competitive 'Mech in competitive play. Not every 'Mech can be competitive though for there will always be one that is considered better than the others in its class. Just look at the wide variety of 'Mechs being used in the MWOWC (/sarcasm).

Despite that, I have to disagree when it comes to Quick Play. I have been getting consistently good results in multiple variants in both the solo and group queues. I consider myself a fairly average pilot, however I manage to put out good damage numbers and multiple kills just about every match I play (of course, we all have bad matches too). Now granted, it took me playing the 'Mech back to back through many matches before I found my stride and builds that worked for my playstyle. However, it's even at the point now where I rarely lose my arms anymore and if I do, it's usually on a loss where I'm forced to brawl.

I've seen a lot of people get frustrated and give up on the PXH before ever giving it a good try. The bad reputation is has doesn't help either. People trying the 'Mech for the first time already go into a match with a negative bias and when they do poorly, it simply confirms that bias for them. Don't try to play it like another 'Mech (*cough* Blackjack). You will be disappointed. It is basically an oversized light so play it like one. Use your speed and mobility to flank the enemy team and don't give them opportunities to return fire.

Edited by Stuffer, 08 July 2016 - 07:11 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

I've been effective in my 2 and a couple of the others, but I think people are playing this mech wrong. This is definitely not a brawler in the vein of the BJ - play it like a big Spider.

In other words, if you go with a relatively small, or STD, engine, and one jump jet, you are most certainly doing it wrong. Throw six jump jets on this, a big XL, full armor, and then whatever weapons you can stuff in, and it performs pretty well. Don't run at the enemy, jump at them. Jump sideways. Spin in the air. Hit the ground running 90 degrees from the direction you were going. Don't run in straight lines. Don't stay in the open. Don't hang around and shoot - ghost in, ghost out.

Those mountains in FP? Yeah, you can jump OVER them now. The walls in HPG? You can jump OVER them. Entirely over them, not just "on" them. USE that.

If it has ECM: put ECM on it. If it has dual AMS, put dual AMS on it.

Play it how it was meant to be played, not like some meta-quirked mech already in the game.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 08 July 2016 - 07:24 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Dawnstealer, on 08 July 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

I've been effective in my 2 and a couple of the others, but I think people are playing this mech wrong. This is definitely not a brawler in the vein of the BJ - play it like a big Spider...

Tried this. If you run an XL350 and then stuff it with jump jets you will have enough room for an ERPPC and a couple of ML or what have you. The thing is, a Spider is still faster, more agile and capable of carrying nearly the same amount of weaponry in a mech a lot smaller in profile (even after the rescale). Feels redundant.

[Aerei]

From a quick play standpoint, the PHX isn't necessarily bad, it's just underpowered, More importantly, due to a lack of offensive quirks and torso mounts, it ends up being inferior to a lot of its competitors. The Hunchback IIC and Enforcer 4R blow away the Phoenix Hawk for having torso options, better duration, and better range (or if the PHX is using ERs, comparable range and much better duration). Blackjacks and Novas beat it at poptarting. Novas, Griffins, and the Hunchback 4SP blow it away in a brawl. I'd even say the Cicada is significantly better than the Phoenix Hawk for scouting (used as a light supplement mind, for those that fear streakcrows).

I wanted to like the Phoenix Hawk, and I even had some good matches in it. The fact of the matter is that good matches =/= good mech. I've seen a buddy get 1,000 damage in a Vindicator, but that doesn't make it good. Any mech can perform if the skill disparity is great enough. The thing that really drove this home for me, was that after I used the Phoenix Hawk almost exclusively for the leaderboard, then went back to my Enforcer, I immediately noticed two things:

1) I felt much slower.

2) I noticed just how easy putting up a good round felt.

I'm beating a dead horse here, but the Phoenix Hawk is ultimately unforgiving because of its fragility and its almost exclusively arm mount loadouts, and its easier to make mistakes due to limited range, duration, heat management, etc. It has a place in my heart for how it looks and how it's a great training mech in a way.

It's fun, it's fast--and given the state of light mechs, that isn't for nothing anymore--but I again have to stress that it's biggest weakness is that for its drawbacks, it fails to offer anything else that another mech can do better. Much better.

[Bud Crue]

Aerei, on 08 July 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

From a quick play standpoint, the PHX isn't necessarily bad, it's just underpowered...
It's fun, it's fast--and given the state of light mechs, that isn't for nothing anymore--but I again have to stress that it's biggest weakness is that for its drawbacks, it fails to offer anything else that another mech can do better. Much better.

Yup. I'll keep the two ecm variants and what I call the "weaker 1x", but only because I came up with builds that feel/play a bit different than the other 127 mechs I have. The PHxs aren't doing anything better than my other mechs they are just a tad different (and that distinction is mainly because of the ECM in two variants).

[Shadey99]

Well it's been some rather busy couple weeks for me, so I haven't had a chance to play much at all lately, however I think I rather called it on page 2 and said it would have to compete against the BJ's and Crabs. From everything I've heard it's possible to fit it out like those mechs, but it's just to fragile and not that fast enough to make up for it. It also has fairly low slung weapons which besides durability issues is a negative for them.

All that said, I'm a light and medium pilot at heart so eventually I'm sure I will pick them up and master them. I'm leaning on waiting until they come up for c-bills though and picking which variants I'll buy.

[Podex]

Stuffer, on 08 July 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

I've seen a lot of people get frustrated and give up on the PXH before ever giving it a good try.

Strangely enough, I was thinking about this last night. I don't think I've given it a fair shake myself, and the reason for it has nothing to do with the mech. It's the minimap fiasco that did it for me. Just like a first impression with a person, the first day of release can make or break a mech. I spent that entire first day trying to get the mech to work, but was stuck running around in circles because the minimap was borked. First day = failure, therefore mech = failure.

This seed of learning and memory has completely tainted this mech, at least in my mind. Now when I drop in it, the frustration begins again before fighting even starts.

It's jacked, but I'm human and learn by association. Right now, the PXH is the embodiment of navigational frustration. It would be best if I don't use it for a few months.

[The Basilisk]

I think the PXH got into some sort of sickcycle carousel.
PPL realized its not too big a thread and also is pretty squishy ==> easy prey.
My impression is the PXH gets therefor focused a lot for the easy kill.
Beeing easiely killed enforces the bias versus the hawk. And so it goes round and round till its not even a loughing stock anymore.

[Bluefalcon13]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I really don't think the PXH is really that bad off...

I do pretty well in mine, but then again, I've always generally ran super-stock builds and learned how to make it effective for me. I really like my ROC, as the missle hard points give it a nice twist. Granted most of my builds are not 'meta' but I find meta build boring...

[Rock Roller]

Bluefalcon13, on 09 July 2016 - 06:35 AM, said:

Maybe I'm crazy, but I really don't think the PXH is really that bad off...

I do pretty well in mine, but then again, I've always generally ran super-stock builds and learned how to make it effective for me. I really like my ROC, as the missle hard points give it a nice twist. Granted most of my builds are not 'meta' but I find meta build boring...

No dought it can be fun. The original post is assessing its effective viability. It currently is not a competitive mech. It could receive a structure or armor arm upgrade that could help. Running in scouting mode faction drops it is at a disadvantage vs other units.

[Bonkfire]

The Roc and 1B are by far the best variants but even they are at a disadvantage in faction play, especially hen scouting against clans. The arms are just too weak, they definitely need structure quirks. Though this could just be because clans just have a huge advantage in scouting no matter what.

[LT. HARDCASE]

I feel they need both structure and armor. Armor more.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 09 July 2016 - 03:36 PM.

[Bunneh3000]

https://www.twitch.t...3000/v/77637529

I just tallied a match yesterday with a PH with over 800 dmg. Forgot who on the thread said it but if you team up with a light or two and attack the flanks, you can really rack up the dmg.

twitch.tv/bunneh3000

check my replays.

[Rock Roller]

Well if you have read the patch notes it seems like they heard the request for a arm buff. We also receive a bit of a surprise with even better maneuverability. That one surprised me but I am looking forward to it.

Even more interesting is the K with its structure and HUGE maneuverability buff may be very interesting to give another go at.

[Rock Roller]

Arms are still the weak point but they no longer feel like you lose them instantly. Maneuverability is a minor improvement for the PHX-2 but not a big deal.

Running a xl300, a LPL, 3 MPL with ECM, max armor and 4 JJ. Feels better but will have to get in some time to get a handle on its viability.

[FrozenAnt]

Agree, You still have to protect the arms, but now they withstand dirty looks from other mechs and can actually take shots.

The Accel/deccel buffs give the PH a little more agility when moving around with JJ's. So that once they hit the ground they can get back to full speed quicker giving them more survivability.

They still arn't out of bottom tier but they are a little better at living.
Some offensive quirks are needed to try and drag them out of the bottom slot. Reducing ROF of energy weapons or giving them a significant range increase "5% is not significant..."