1212 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 March 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

It does speed up death by that much when you are somewhat of a squishy target, not to mention you just lost a decent amount of firepower, which is why the Dire Wolf with prime arms was so great, because you weren't extra squishy and rarely lost firepower


If you are just using Gauss Rifles on it, why would you bother with the Blood Asp in the first place? It isn't like it has high mounted energy with those Gauss Rifles. All energy mounts will probably be lower than the cockpit which means to bring your full armament to bear, you are going to have to expose most of your mech anyway.

Which is why I initially said id likely run high mounted dakka, not gauss, and use arm mounted spls to deal with pesky lights probably

[Lucian Nostra]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 March 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

May I ask why the Turkey over the Kingfisher? It doesn't have great hardpoint layout (as in hardpoint positions on the mech), and its as lethargic as a Dire Wolf with less armor and less weapons. Wouldn't you rather have something a little more mobile with a few high mounted hardpoint and potentially ECM (Russ stated that swapping the HAG30 on the F variant for a Gauss rifle is possible)? I don't know, I think I would use the Kingfisher more often than a Dire Wolf, let alone the Turkina which is similar, just a little bit worse.

Granted, I would rather have both to give CJF another one of their mechs, but I'm not sure if that is an option.

Turkina's hardpoints are all above cockpit or just a sliver below, it has superior placement over the Kingfisher and the Dire Wolf. Also I am a big fan of jumping mechs, granted assaults dont get massive amounts of use from JJs but I often lament not having them on certain maps in the Wolf (I know it CAN mount them but I often don't to pack in more guns)

The Turkina also packs a boat load more firepower than the Kingfisher at 42 tons vs 24 tons while packing max armor stock vs needing to use a ton to get there (probably remove some armor from the Turkina actually)

Granted the Turkina is as slow as the Dire Wolf but again claiming it will be as un-nimble is to be seen, as I pointed out earlier PGI doesn't need to limit the Turkinas Torso twist or have it turn as sluggishly as the Wolf does.

If modeled faithfully it could give the Whale a run for its money as it needs to expose its self less to bring its guns to bare meaning it can back off easier as well and will in general be more nimble.

The Kingfisher brings less to the table while a standard engine sounds nice it's not really all that useful compared to a clan XL, maybe if PGI ever put actual engine crits into the game but as is the speed gained is lost to that massive engine. The Kingfisher all and all is very similar to the Executioner which goes the same speed with more weaponry but a touch less armor, but gets MASC to help it boogie around the field. The Kingfisher could give the Exe some competition and as a brawler because of it's slightly higher mounted arms since they go out and down vs just down and its humanoid form but the Turkina offers better geometry I feel for how alot of MWO gets played (pokes and jabs before a push) and with PGI now using volumeterics to determine size of a mech the turkina wont be massive

edit: also have to add thinking they'd add the F variant which features tech they'd have to replace vs the prime, a, b, c, and d which all feature in era tech.. seems very pipe dreamish

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 09 March 2016 - 08:57 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 09 March 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Which is why I initially said id likely run high mounted dakka, not gauss

I doubt every torso ballistic will be high mounted. Plus, why does it matter when you have the Kodiak which well worth the 10 tons more.

[Imperius]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Turkina's hardpoints are all above cockpit or just a sliver below, it has superior placement over the Kingfisher and the Dire Wolf. Also I am a big fan of jumping mechs, granted assaults dont get massive amounts of use from JJs but I often lament not having them on certain maps in the Wolf (I know it CAN mount them but I often don't to pack in more guns)

The Turkina also packs a boat load more firepower than the Kingfisher at 42 tons vs 24 tons while packing max armor stock vs needing to use a ton to get there (probably remove some armor from the Turkina actually)

Granted the Turkina is as slow as the Dire Wolf but again claiming it will be as un-nimble is to be seen, as I pointed out earlier PGI doesn't need to limit the Turkinas Torso twist or have it turn as sluggishly as the Wolf does.

If modeled faithfully it could give the Whale a run for its money as it needs to expose its self less to bring its guns to bare meaning it can back off easier as well and will in general be more nimble.

The Kingfisher brings less to the table while a standard engine sounds nice it's not really all that useful compared to a clan XL, maybe if PGI ever put actual engine crits into the game but as is the speed gained is lost to that massive engine. The Kingfisher all and all is very similar to the Executioner which goes the same speed with more weaponry but a touch less armor, but gets MASC to help it boogie around the field. The Kingfisher could give the Exe some competition and as a brawler because of it's slightly higher mounted arms since they go out and down vs just down and its humanoid form but the Turkina offers better geometry I feel for how alot of MWO gets played (pokes and jabs before a push) and with PGI now using volumeterics to determine size of a mech the turkina wont be massive

edit: also have to add thinking they'd add the F variant which features tech they'd have to replace vs the prime, a, b, c, and d which all feature in era tech.. seems very pipe dreamish

Ok, Turkey or Mad Cat? I don't want to add another useless assault...

[Widowmaker1981]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 March 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

I doubt every torso ballistic will be high mounted. Plus, why does it matter when you have the Kodiak which well worth the 10 tons more.

If all ballistics were not high mounted, i would definitely cry foul. No artwork ever has Blood Asp ST weapons below roof height.

VS Kodiak-3: It has ECM and JJ options with the big dakka due to Omnitech, has no bad locked gear whatsoever mitigating the downsides, it even has leg crits available for ammo, and its 10 tons lighter for the same podspace at the same speed (the 400XL in the KDK is a full 10 tons heavier than the 360 in the Asp - the most tonnage possible on a 4/6 mech is actually a 95 tonner with a 380, not a 100 tonner). I DO think it was silly of PGI to give the Kodiak 4B though, because it kinda makes things like the Stone Rhino pointless now... but then i probably wouldn't have bought the Kodiak if they hadn't...

Its moot though, its a 3060 mech with Heavy Lasers.. we aint gonna get it anytime soon.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Turkina's hardpoints are all above cockpit or just a sliver below, it has superior placement over the Kingfisher and the Dire Wolf. Also I am a big fan of jumping mechs, granted assaults dont get massive amounts of use from JJs but I often lament not having them on certain maps in the Wolf (I know it CAN mount them but I often don't to pack in more guns)

The Turkina also packs a boat load more firepower than the Kingfisher at 42 tons vs 24 tons while packing max armor stock vs needing to use a ton to get there (probably remove some armor from the Turkina actually)

Granted the Turkina is as slow as the Dire Wolf but again claiming it will be as un-nimble is to be seen, as I pointed out earlier PGI doesn't need to limit the Turkinas Torso twist or have it turn as sluggishly as the Wolf does.

If modeled faithfully it could give the Whale a run for its money as it needs to expose its self less to bring its guns to bare meaning it can back off easier as well and will in general be more nimble.

The Kingfisher brings less to the table while a standard engine sounds nice it's not really all that useful compared to a clan XL, maybe if PGI ever put actual engine crits into the game but as is the speed gained is lost to that massive engine. The Kingfisher all and all is very similar to the Executioner which goes the same speed with more weaponry but a touch less armor, but gets MASC to help it boogie around the field. The Kingfisher could give the Exe some competition and as a brawler because of it's slightly higher mounted arms since they go out and down vs just down and its humanoid form but the Turkina offers better geometry I feel for how alot of MWO gets played (pokes and jabs before a push) and with PGI now using volumeterics to determine size of a mech the turkina wont be massive

edit: also have to add thinking they'd add the F variant which features tech they'd have to replace vs the prime, a, b, c, and d which all feature in era tech.. seems very pipe dreamish

They are just under the cockpit, but there is a lot of mech over the cockpit which people can shoot at, AND this guy looks extremely wide, meaning weapons will be FAR apart and will have to expose the entire width of the mech to use all of them which is negative.

Also, as far as the Kingfisher goes, the 24 tons comes with 17 hardlocked DHS, most Clan mech builds use at least that much, so that recovers some tonnage there. Also, Turkina has 5 hardlocked DHS, 4 of which are outside the engine, which limits side torso slot availability, along with 3 jump jets, leaves only 5 slots for side torsos. This isn't the end of the world, isn't ideal for a mech with so much pod space. Also means no ST Gauss, so if you want to dual gauss it will all be in the arms. You do get a 2B right torso, but only a 1B right arm, (2B on left arm but won't converge well with the 2B Right Arm) so dakka won't be ideal either. I don't know, couldn't see myself taking this over a Dire for any situation.

[LastKhan]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Ok, Turkey or Mad Cat? I don't want to add another useless assault...

Useless to you but useful to someone else. plenty of people i know that can make good uses out of the mech mehs like the adder and the myst lynx.

Pariah Devalis, on 09 March 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

Just put the poor thing on a diet, will ya? 'tis a fat Nova Cat mech.

yea being the first time remaking it im giving it a better do over this time .

Edited by LastKhan, 09 March 2016 - 09:25 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 March 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

They are just under the cockpit, but there is a lot of mech over the cockpit which people can shoot at, AND this guy looks extremely wide, meaning weapons will be FAR apart and will have to expose the entire width of the mech to use all of them which is negative.

Also, as far as the Kingfisher goes, the 24 tons comes with 17 hardlocked DHS, most Clan mech builds use at least that much, so that recovers some tonnage there. Also, Turkina has 5 hardlocked DHS, 4 of which are outside the engine, which limits side torso slot availability, along with 3 jump jets, leaves only 5 slots for side torsos. This isn't the end of the world, isn't ideal for a mech with so much pod space. Also means no ST Gauss, so if you want to dual gauss it will all be in the arms. You do get a 2B right torso, but only a 1B right arm, (2B on left arm but won't converge well with the 2B Right Arm) so dakka won't be ideal either. I don't know, couldn't see myself taking this over a Dire Kodiak for any situation.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Those hardlocked DHS in the torsos are a killer, and convergence on those arms will be really, really, really bad. Like worse than King Crab bad.

Also FTFY lol.

[Lucian Nostra]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Ok, Turkey or Mad Cat? I don't want to add another useless assault...

I will concede that the Angry Kitten would be more META than the Turkina but I don't think mech design and choice should ever devolve into whats meta and whats not meta and adding only the meta.

There are plenty of good mechs in MWO that get ragged on because they don't fit the meta to a T and theres a bunch more that with simple tweaks could be made a lot better (Summoner which is already pretty good)

The Turkina would be a very solid assault even if it gets stuck with the same torso twist and turn speed as the Wolf, its got a ton of armor, and a crap load of firepower and a bit more manuverability than the Dire Wolf does (when you factor in tossing 3 JJs on a dire wolf it's avail tonnage for guns is 44.5 vs the turkinas 42)

So yeah I'd pick the Turkina over the Mad Cat. more punch, same aprox jumping ability, more armor and a more flattened torso should give it a better poking profile than the MK II does as theres less mech to expose before you crest your cockpit

[Metus regem]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Ok, Turkey or Mad Cat? I don't want to add another useless assault...

Marauder IIC then, she is just beastly.... Maraudar hit boxes, with all the clan goodies.... on a 85t platform....

Warhammer IIC is also mean and nasty, clan goodies on the Warhammer, and ten tons heavier making it a true assault mech.

Both of thsoe are battle mechs so they would be adjustable as far as MWO goes, both are assault mechs, and both bring a ton of fire power...

The WHM-IIC change that 320 standard for a clan XL, up armour it to max with clan FF, and you still have 44.5t to work with along with 31 free crits, after factoring in FF and Endo...

The MAD-IIC with an XL engine and all the clan goodies gets 46t and 31 free crits....

pretty respectiable for clan battlemechs being 80t (WHM-IIC) and 85t (MAD-IIC)

[Lucian Nostra]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 March 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

Also, as far as the Kingfisher goes, the 24 tons comes with 17 hardlocked DHS, most Clan mech builds use at least that much, so that recovers some tonnage there. Also, Turkina has 5 hardlocked DHS, 4 of which are outside the engine, which limits side torso slot availability, along with 3 jump jets, leaves only 5 slots for side torsos. This isn't the end of the world, isn't ideal for a mech with so much pod space. Also means no ST Gauss, so if you want to dual gauss it will all be in the arms. You do get a 2B right torso, but only a 1B right arm, (2B on left arm but won't converge well with the 2B Right Arm) so dakka won't be ideal either. I don't know, couldn't see myself taking this over a Dire for any situation.

I hope you realize while you are right on the slots the turkina has 5 free slots per side while the kingfisher has 1 whole slot available on its RT and the same 5 free on it's LT so if that's damning for the Turkina its even more damning for the Kingfisher. At least the Turkina will come with a torso capable of carrying 4E in it

Also like I said volumetric sizing is now in effect so the turkina will be smaller if it's as wide as the TRO or it'll be narrower if it's as tall.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 09 March 2016 - 09:36 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

So yeah I'd pick the Turkina over the Mad Cat. more punch, same aprox jumping ability, more armor and a more flattened torso should give it a better poking profile than the MK II does as theres less mech to expose before you crest your cockpit

I would take a Mark II over the Turkina, but that is moot since one was designed prior to 3054.

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

Also like I said volumetric sizing is now in effect so the turkina will be smaller if it's as wide as the TRO or it'll be narrower if it's as tall.

You are confusing surface area with volume.

[LastKhan]

Quote

Turkina has 5 hardlocked DHS, 4 of which are outside the engine, which limits side torso slot availability,

Warhawk has 7 double sinks locked outside of the engine and it does okay.

Edited by LastKhan, 09 March 2016 - 09:42 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

I hope you realize while you are right on the slots the turkina has 5 free slots per side while the kingfisher has 1 whole slot available on its RT and the same 5 free on it's LT so if that's damning for the Turkina its even more damning for the Kingfisher. At least the Turkina will come with a torso capable of carrying 4E in it

Also like I said volumetric sizing is now in effect so the turkina will be smaller if it's as wide as the TRO or it'll be narrower if it's as tall.

Kingfisher has 4 and 5 slots in its side torsos (no idea where you got 1), not limiting for energy weapons, and only marginally limiting for missiles (no LRM20, big loss). Its not like its preventing you from putting a Gauss or 2 UAC 10s there. Can still do 2LPLs high mounted there.

Which turkina side torso can carry 4 energy weapons? Is it one way out of timeline or something? That would be useful I suppose but.... 53 kph...

[Widowmaker1981]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

I hope you realize while you are right on the slots the turkina has 5 free slots per side while the kingfisher has 1 whole slot available on its RT and the same 5 free on it's LT so if that's damning for the Turkina its even more damning for the Kingfisher. At least the Turkina will come with a torso capable of carrying 4E in it

Also like I said volumetric sizing is now in effect so the turkina will be smaller if it's as wide as the TRO or it'll be narrower if it's as tall.

Is that true about the Kingfisher LT?? If so.. lol. all support for any Omni assault withdrawn. Sod that, and sod turkey, they are both worse than what we have. all good, i just wont buy an Omnipack.

Where are you getting specific mech loadout information, like crit locations etc? i used to use a site called solaris 7 that had most mechs, but it seems to be have been down for months.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 09 March 2016 - 09:53 AM.

[Imperius]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

I will concede that the Angry Kitten would be more META than the Turkina but I don't think mech design and choice should ever devolve into whats meta and whats not meta and adding only the meta.

There are plenty of good mechs in MWO that get ragged on because they don't fit the meta to a T and theres a bunch more that with simple tweaks could be made a lot better (Summoner which is already pretty good)

The Turkina would be a very solid assault even if it gets stuck with the same torso twist and turn speed as the Wolf, its got a ton of armor, and a crap load of firepower and a bit more manuverability than the Dire Wolf does (when you factor in tossing 3 JJs on a dire wolf it's avail tonnage for guns is 44.5 vs the turkinas 42)

So yeah I'd pick the Turkina over the Mad Cat. more punch, same aprox jumping ability, more armor and a more flattened torso should give it a better poking profile than the MK II does as theres less mech to expose before you crest your cockpit

So you're ok with saturating the class with "not so meta (ideal)" mechs before giving better options to the clans that is much needed, especially when CW phase 3 is supposed to bring life back into the dead CW. I didn't say the mech is useless but maybe it's time to wait for "not so ideal" mechs and get the better ones in first. Like the Hellhound (MW4 look version).

Sure I've got attachment to the Mad Cat MK II ( I don't think a person at this point is not aware of that), but it's definitely also a tier 1 assault, like the Timber, the missile boxes would disappear if you didn't take missiles, depending on how Alex does the art for any of them, we don't know how good the sillouett of the mech will be. Speed, hardpoint location, and customization wise the MK II brings a lot to the table. If they made the Hero have 4 ballistic points it would add the perfect high mount dakka platform to assaults. It can be fast enough to NASCAR, and it's customizable.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 March 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

I would take a Mark II over the Turkina, but that is moot since one was designed prior to 3054.


You are confusing surface area with volume.

It's not a moot point, the whole reason I'm in here is to keep people informed timeline is not the deciding factor if a mech can come into MWO anymore.

[Widowmaker1981]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

I hope you realize while you are right on the slots the turkina has 5 free slots per side while the kingfisher has 1 whole slot available on its RT and the same 5 free on it's LT so if that's damning for the Turkina its even more damning for the Kingfisher. At least the Turkina will come with a torso capable of carrying 4E in it

Also like I said volumetric sizing is now in effect so the turkina will be smaller if it's as wide as the TRO or it'll be narrower if it's as tall.

I just found an app for my phone called Mech Factory, are you using that? Because the ES/FF crits are in the wrong places on literally every mech.

[LastKhan]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

So you're ok with saturating the class with "not so meta (ideal)" mechs before giving better options to the clans that is much needed, especially when CW phase 3 is supposed to bring life back into the dead CW. I didn't say the mech is useless but maybe it's time to wait for "not so ideal" mechs and get the better ones in first. Like the Hellhound (MW4 look version).

Sure I've got attachment to the Mad Cat MK II ( I don't think a person at this point is not aware of that), but it's definitely also a tier 1 assault, like the Timber, the missile boxes would disappear if you didn't take missiles, depending on how Alex does the art for any of them, we don't know how good the sillouett of the mech will be. Speed, hardpoint location, and customization wise the MK II brings a lot to the table. If they made the Hero have 4 ballistic points it would add the perfect high mount dakka platform to assaults. It can be fast enough to NASCAR, and it's customizable.







It's not a moot point, the whole reason I'm in here is to keep people informed timeline is not the deciding factor if a mech can come into MWO anymore.

kay you bring up CW so, why would you waste the 240 tonnage space on one 90 - 100t assault. Unless, you are really good with it it (or your mechbay is lacking which isnt your case if you buy everything), will not keep up to say a light rush or last as long in attack mode. The preferred is i think is a more balanced with a few heavies with mediums and a light depending on what class you are good with. unless everything changes in CW3 then who knows. Just hoping they do a better job this time and make things worth conquering.

MK2 is your choice and thats kool not gonna knock anymore on it. but really if you're NASCAR-ing then you are just a cog in the long going mental illness

Edited by LastKhan, 09 March 2016 - 10:17 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 09 March 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Is that true about the Kingfisher LT?? If so.. lol. all support for any Omni assault withdrawn. Sod that, and sod turkey, they are both worse than what we have. all good, i just wont buy an Omnipack.

Where are you getting specific mech loadout information, like crit locations etc? i used to use a site called solaris 7 that had most mechs, but it seems to be have been down for months.

I'm using Solaris Skunkwerks. On the Fisher RT, 1E hardpoint maximum, 4 open slots, enough for cLPL and a DHS, on the LT it has 5 slots, and max of 2E or 1M, so you can still fit 2 cLPLs and a TC1 or 1 cLPL, 1 ERML and another DHS. Not sure what else you need more slots for there. The Ballistic slot is a right arm thing, where you have 10 free slots. Left arm has 9 free slots. 2 Free slots in the CT as well.

[Imperius]

LastKhan, on 09 March 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

kay you bring up CW so, why would you waste the 240 tonnage space on one 90 - 100t assault. Unless, you are really good with it it (or your mechbay is lacking which isnt your case if you buy everything), will not keep up to say a light rush or last as long in attack mode. The preferred is a more balanced with a few heavies with mediums and a light depending on what class you are good with. unless everything changes in CW3 then who knows. Just hoping they do a better job this time and make things worth conquering.

MK2 is your choice and thats kool not gonna knock anymore on it. but really if you're NASCAR-ing then you are just a cog in the long going mental illness

I don't NASCAR (I can't lol I play the Dire Wolf), I'm just saying it would be a more noob friendly mech. As for the tonnage in CW last time I played Clan was at 260, I took 2 Dire Wolfs, and 2 Artic Cheetahs, never touched the cheetahs while we farmed pugs... That's totally another issue though.

I am really good with my assault normally I'll drop lights in 1-2 shots, I rarely miss. Movement wise though the MK II is above the Dire Wolf in all aspects. Plus, looking toward the future Dire Wolf is going to be even more useless when the Energy Drain mechanic gets added. The only + it has was King of Boating weapons.