125 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Gyrok, grab any IS assault mech you want, and I'll go 1 on 1 with you in my whale. Please grab the mauler I've used the dire for a long time. Just because you can't make it work, doesn't mean it doesn't. I've never encountered a situation where the Dire could not remain competitive. I've got over 900 matches across 3 different dire chassis and that's not counting cw or so called "competitive" play. So really, please put up or shut up. best of 3, no load out changes between matches.

I have that many on 1 my DW prime alone.

I have 1700 matches across 3 HBRs...

I know how to play the game. It is not that I "cannot make it work"...I surely can...but it is inferior to other options.

want proof?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...691324c4028ae8d

With quirks and cooldown 5 module, that build will literally put out 21+ DPS sustained, no jams, no overheats.

No DW build on the planet can touch 21 DPS guaranteed.

Edited by Gyrok, 13 March 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Gyrok, grab any IS assault mech you want, and I'll go 1 on 1 with you in my whale. Please grab the mauler I've used the dire for a long time. Just because you can't make it work, doesn't mean it doesn't. I've never encountered a situation where the Dire could not remain competitive. I've got over 900 matches across 3 different dire chassis and that's not counting cw or so called "competitive" play. So really, please put up or shut up. best of 3, no load out changes between matches.

i really hate to agree with gyrok but objectively the mx-90 can face tank and win against a whale every single time. whale has to keep firing its dakka with little to no pinpoint+jams that lower its overall DPS, while the mx-90 is literally slinging dual automatic gauss shots with impunity landing all that damage squarely where it wants it.

show me the dw that can out brawl an atlas s

clans aren't tanky at all, they may have more speed than the average IS assault but inside brawling range IS is king hands down. those cooldown/heatgen and structure quirks are no joke and anyone that owns the whole IS and clan assault lineup knows IS has the advantage up close and in your face.

Gyrok, on 13 March 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

I have that many on 1 my DW prime alone.

I have 1700 matches across 3 HBRs...

I know how to play the game. It is not that I "cannot make it work"...I surely can...but it is inferior to other options.

want proof?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...691324c4028ae8d

With quirks and cooldown 5 module, that build will literally put out 21+ DPS sustained, no jams, no overheats.

No DW build on the planet can touch 21 DPS guaranteed.

this is what im talking about when i say the mx-90 will out dakka a direwolf

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2ceea5ccf3dcfab

play with the rear armor to your liking.

Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 13 March 2016 - 03:04 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Xavori, on 13 March 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Wait. You're telling me that a weapons boat mech like the Ebon Jaguar can't tank? NO WAI!!!

Guess what, sparky. Rifleman can't tank either. Nor can the Thunderbolt, Banshee, Victor, etc.

Guess what can tank for Clans. Timberwolves, Direwolves (as long as someone guards their backside from lights), Warhawks, and so on.

Claiming that a specific mech can't do something is a pointless argument because practically every time, it's not supposed to. We're not playing Jack-of-All-Trades Online.

Troll response is trolling harder. You started this post about why Clan mechs should be absent of quirks that IS mechs enjoy for the sake of IS skewed sense of balance. Am I not supposed to give you an example? Am I supposed to just float around generic exaggerated claims as you are purporting? I gave you specific example of how that system creates issues that are, in my opinion, prevalent. Issues that had to be addressed in previous patches. Tell me then, if quirks should only be allowed on IS mechs, how would that not create a one-sided balance? Clan tech is only superior in name and lore. In this game it is not so, and that is fine. I get it, this is a MMO, there has to be an assymetrical balance for it to work. What gets me, is when someone starts a flame thread, and not a discussion about actual balance. Semantics push me to respond to something obviously biased.
Survivability is just as key as laser duration, or beam length. When a clan mech's armor on any component goes, it's good as gone the next salvo, versus any other IS mech that can just keep on tanking and gets to see the various shades between yellow to red before failing.

One more very important point about the difference between Clan and IS, is the hardpoint locations. Take the Warhawk, which btw really is not that tanky; a 80% of it's viable weapon are in it's arms. Look at the Gargle for instance, again all arms, unless you want to equip some AMS, of course.
Oh and that's incredulous to say the banshee can't tank with the best of them. One on one I bet salvo for salvo, a large portion of IS mechs win hands down. Ok, not entirely true but pretty close, which is funny as Clans were supposed to be all about duels and such.
Look, I just don't entirely agree with your opinion and that's cool. See you on the battlefield, where my ERLL's will allow you to stand in place and watch paint dry.

Edited by JackalBeast, 13 March 2016 - 04:32 PM.

[Malachy Karrde]

My challenge stands. I've had it with him. I'm willing to put this whole debate to rest. I don't give a crap what cred he supposedly has. He can bring his mx90, I don't care. I've yet to be put down by one, im sure it's possible, but I'm confident in my ability to deal with any inner sphere assault. I'm willing to put my dire wolf against any inner sphere assault he wants. I've challenged him before on two other occasions and he never has taken me up on it. So here it is Gyrok, if you truly are the mwo god you think you are, put up or shut up. If you decline to acquiesce, well, I guess we will all know how to weight your opinions then won't we?

Edited by Malachy Karrde, 13 March 2016 - 04:09 PM.

[pbiggz]

Oh look, an IS player making sweeping claims about the state of clan mechs and how they are so good they don't need quirks.

*looks at the kitfox, adder, mist lynx, ice fridge, nova, hunchy IIC, shadowcat, orion IIC, mad dog, summoner, gargoyle, warhawk, executioner, and highlander and wonders exactly what clan mechs he's playing that dont need quirks*

[Malachy Karrde]

pbiggz, on 13 March 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

Oh look, an IS player making sweeping claims about the state of clan mechs and how they are so good they don't need quirks.

*looks at the kitfox, adder, mist lynx, ice fridge, nova, hunchy IIC, shadowcat, orion IIC, mad dog, summoner, gargoyle, warhawk, executioner, and highlander and wonders exactly what clan mechs he's playing that dont need quirks*

I'm a clan pilot. While I feel that a couple clan mech need looked at, the warhawk, executioner, dire wolf, timber wolf, ebon jaguar, hellbringer, nova, adder, stormcrow, and a couple others are perfectly fine. That's my opinion. The summoner and mist lynx need a little help, but even the summoner isn't a bad mech, it's just not a great mech. There are chassis for every player, every player cannot make every chassis work. If it doesn't work for you, and you come here bad mouthing it on the forums it just shows that you personally can't make it work. It's not necessarily a bad mech. I've seen pilots who are hell on wheels with a summoner, I can't get it to work. It's not the mech it's me. I can't get an executioner to work.as well as a a warhawk or dire wolf... but others can..I've been killed by em. Doesn't make it a bad mech, it's just not for me. Now, I am hell on wheels with a dire wolf or warhawk.. I do OK in a hellbringer or ebon jag...yet a timber wolf isn't my cup of tea. Does it make them better than timber wolves? No. It's the pilot. I own every mech except the marauder and the 2c pack...I've mastered 2/3 of them, and the rest are at least basiced. Just because I do best in a few mech does not make them more overpowered than anything else, it just makes me good at them. I get mad when people come here and pretend to be an authority on something and bad mouth it because it didn't work for them... if they couldn't get it to work in 900 matches, just means it's not their cup of tea, not that it's bad. Props for trying but if it took you 900 matches to figure out you can't make it work... well I can't help you there. I can usually figure out a mech isn't for me by the time I have it elited. There are a couple bad chassis... but they were bad in tt and in the books too...that's to be expected. But there sure as hell aren't as many as people come whining on the forums about. There are very few bad chassis..but lots of bad pilots in MWO. A good pilot for one mech can be a bad pilot in the next. Play what you like but don't come here pretending to be an authority. Just makes you look like a bigger idiot.

Edited by Malachy Karrde, 13 March 2016 - 05:07 PM.

[Quaamik]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

.... Clans have plenty of tanks but they tank differently than the stravag spheroid free birth trash mechs. I tank all the time in my warhawk at short range and it can soak up an incredible amount of damage. I also end up tanking a lot in my dire wolf, but it's different than an atlas. With the direwolf, you use your awesome firepower to kill the enemy tanks before they get close enough to be more than an eyesore. You see, clan mechs are designed to kill everyone else before the is can bring them to range. ...

Being able to dish out tremendous damage is not "tanking".

To tank, a mech has to be able to walk into view, absorb the damage thrown at it and get off effective return damage. It has to be able to stand against an opponent of equal weight and survive as long as most any mech of that weight, while still dishing damage.

Clan mechs cannot.

Warhawk: Take its arms and its done.
DireWolf: Same as the Warhawk.

As for torsos, the ONLY advantage they have is being able to lose a side torso while running an XL engine. Useful, but not special, since unlike IS assaults they cannot run a standard engine.

The Timberwolf is NOT a tank. Its fast and can pack a lot of firepower. It can be set up for most ranges and can be set up to do most forms of play. Its hard (damn near impossible) to brawl with ... you have to rely on knocking he opponent out in no more than 2 alphas, 'cause you want get 3 without shutting down, and you wont absorb 3 without losing a side torso or dying. But outside of brawling it has little to equal it. Its a great mech, but if you play it as a tank you will die in fire routinely.


Overall, the game is very poorly balanced. I think quirks are needed on some mechs, mainly ones where the design of the mech doesn't translate from TT to MWO. The Awesome is an example. But actual weapon balance needs to be addressed, as well as better overall gameplay and mech balance. Personally, I'd like to see a 10% structure buff to EVERY mech in the game, to increase TTK. At the same time roll back any existing quirk to 1/2 what it currently is (5% max on any quirk). Work from there as starting point.

[Gyrok]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

if you truly are the mwo god you think you are, put up or shut up. If you decline to acquiesce, well, I guess we will all know how to weight your opinions then won't we?

Not the same as someone with a penchant for the same antics as a 10 year old school boy, I presume?

We are having a discussion about balance...and here you are presuming that any kind of battle we may have in a 1v1 scenario proves anything about the actual state of balance.

Skill comes into play far more than just the mech under such a scenario, and skill has no place in a discussion about the capabilities of a given tech tree on their own merits.

Suppose we did this, and I beat you 1, 2, even 5 times of 5 with a Mauler. What has been proven beyond the fact that I can beat you in a Mauler while you are in a whale? Constructive discussions, and any bearing of factual evidence, require far more than a few anecdotal matches among 2 people from a forum. To have any meaningful data, it would take hundreds of matches from multiple pilots, if not thousands, and then we could construct a baseline.

This is not a test you are asking for...this is a school yard fight for the sake of some sense of internet honor to try to bully your way into making one party shut up. The reality is, I have no time for peasants, and I have no time for shenanigans that are counter productive to this discussion. I can glean more from a piece of paper with information about the 2 tech trees then fighting you 100 times would give me. I know all about the DW, and if you had driven anything IS lately, you would understand where I am coming from. The DW was one of my favorite mechs ever...I rarely play it now because it is so woefully inadequate at anything an IS assault can do, because they can do it better.

Want a better brawler? Bring an Atlas

Want better suppression, or higher DPS? Bring a Mauler

Want a better brawling laser boat? Bring a Banshee.

Want a better peeking laser boat? Bring a Battlemaster.

These are not coincidental, either...all those mechs have uberquirks that make them better than the DW hands down. Plus they have better mobility on top of structure quirks, and far better twist range/speed than the DW.

People complain the DW can bring 50 tons of guns...meanwhile, that Mauler build posted above with 6x AC5s brings 48 tons + ammo.

There is just no reason to ignore reality. If you think this is an attack or personal insult, or I have in some way attempted to "impugne your honor", then that is something lost in the format of text on an online forum. This discussion was simply meant to dispel an ever perpetuated falsehood that clans are OP. If you buy into that, then you need a fresh cup of joe, some reading glasses, and a bit of time to review the evidence. I even encourage you to try it for yourself and see what I am talking about, the DW is in a bad place....

[Malachy Karrde]

If the so called tanks can't take the tremendous damage, they were out tanked. And dire wolf has has plenty of torso weapons mounts. But even an atlas can't last very long even torso twisting. Though it's about the only mech that has a prayer of surviving long enough to get in range.

[Malachy Karrde]

Gyrok, on 13 March 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:

Not the same as someone with a penchant for the same antics as a 10 year old school boy, I presume?

We are having a discussion about balance...and here you are presuming that any kind of battle we may have in a 1v1 scenario proves anything about the actual state of balance.

Skill comes into play far more than just the mech under such a scenario, and skill has no place in a discussion about the capabilities of a given tech tree on their own merits.

Suppose we did this, and I beat you 1, 2, even 5 times of 5 with a Mauler. What has been proven beyond the fact that I can beat you in a Mauler while you are in a whale? Constructive discussions, and any bearing of factual evidence, require far more than a few anecdotal matches among 2 people from a forum. To have any meaningful data, it would take hundreds of matches from multiple pilots, if not thousands, and then we could construct a baseline.

This is not a test you are asking for...this is a school yard fight for the sake of some sense of internet honor to try to bully your way into making one party shut up. The reality is, I have no time for peasants, and I have no time for shenanigans that are counter productive to this discussion. I can glean more from a piece of paper with information about the 2 tech trees then fighting you 100 times would give me. I know all about the DW, and if you had driven anything IS lately, you would understand where I am coming from. The DW was one of my favorite mechs ever...I rarely play it now because it is so woefully inadequate at anything an IS assault can do, because they can do it better.

Want a better brawler? Bring an Atlas

Want better suppression, or higher DPS? Bring a Mauler

Want a better brawling laser boat? Bring a Banshee.

Want a better peeking laser boat? Bring a Battlemaster.

These are not coincidental, either...all those mechs have uberquirks that make them better than the DW hands down. Plus they have better mobility on top of structure quirks, and far better twist range/speed than the DW.

People complain the DW can bring 50 tons of guns...meanwhile, that Mauler build posted above with 6x AC5s brings 48 tons + ammo.

There is just no reason to ignore reality. If you think this is an attack or personal insult, or I have in some way attempted to "impugne your honor", then that is something lost in the format of text on an online forum. This discussion was simply meant to dispel an ever perpetuated falsehood that clans are OP. If you buy into that, then you need a fresh cup of joe, some reading glasses, and a bit of time to review the evidence. I even encourage you to try it for yourself and see what I am talking about, the DW is in a bad place....

lot of text. I frankly don't care how you justify failing to accept my challenge to prove your theories. You sir, are full of hot air, a coward, and a forum bully. I'm done listening to your baseless drivel. If you were half the pilot you claim to be and unafraid of being made to look a fool, you would meet me on the field of battle. You win, I concede you were right, I win, the Fraps of the battle will show up every time you post about how much you think you know. I've challenged you 5 times, you have proven yourself unwilling to back up your position and prove that you are right 5 times. Therefore, you know you are wrong and are merely attempting to save face.

[Gyrok]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

lot of text. I frankly don't care how you justify failing to accept my challenge to prove your theories. You sir, are full of hot air, a coward, and a forum bully. I'm done listening to your baseless drivel. If you were half the pilot you claim to be and unafraid of being made to look a fool, you would meet me on the field of battle. You win, I concede you were right, I win, the Fraps of the battle will show up every time you post about how much you think you know. I've challenged you 5 times, you have proven yourself unwilling to back up your position and prove that you are right 5 times. Therefore, you know you are wrong and are merely attempting to save face.

Since you cannot read I will try to spell it out for you:

U CANOT BATE ME BECUZ 5 MATCHZ PROOV NUTHIN.

U R WASTE UV TIEM BECUZ I R SMARTZR 2 FED TROLOLOLOL

[Malachy Karrde]

You are a joke Gyrok and irrelevant. You talk really big on the forums, but have nothing to back it up. Your spine is as irrelevant as you or your theories are. When you grow a pair feel free to look me up. In the mean time, keep trying to impress everyone with your drivel. Real players aren't buying it.

[Jackal Noble]

All fine and well gents, but lets try to get back on topic-ish.

[Gyrok]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

You are a joke Gyrok and irrelevant. You talk really big on the forums, but have nothing to back it up. Your spine is as irrelevant as you or your theories are. When you grow a pair feel free to look me up. In the mean time, keep trying to impress everyone with your drivel. Real players aren't buying it.

Real players, huh?

When "real players" tell me I am a crap pilot...I might pay attention.

As it stands, you are no one, have never competed, and amount to nothing more than a peasant in my world.

[Malachy Karrde]

Gyrok, on 13 March 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

Real players, huh?

When "real players" tell me I am a crap pilot...I might pay attention.

As it stands, you are no one, have never competed, and amount to nothing more than a peasant in my world.

unlike you, I am more than willing to put my metal where my mouth is. You are just too afraid that getting beat by someone like me, who holds pretty much everything you say in contempt will forever ruin your forum reputation. Oh we agree on the occasional point, but for the most part, not at all. Guess what, refusing to back up your claims loses you the entire argument. Relevance? It's something you never had and never will have. I can't even try to take you seriously anymore. You aren't even a pilot, Gyrok, you are a forum warrior. I misspoke earlier, you have to be a pilot to be a crap pilot. Your world is one of self delusion, fantasy. I'm here whenever you can bring up the courage to face me. Make me eat my words, I know you want to. I know that deep down, somewhere, in the bottom of that soulless husk you call a brain, you harbor anger and resentment. Allow that to surface. Face me, release your anger. I won't even Fraps your humiliation should you fail it will be between us. Come now, stand up! Off of your knees and take your place as a man!

Edited by Malachy Karrde, 13 March 2016 - 08:59 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Vidja gaemz r srs bznss

[Jackal Noble]

Whoa. I'm not sure what forum I'm in.

[Gyrok]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

unlike you, I am more than willing to put my metal where my mouth is. You are just too afraid that getting beat by someone like me, who holds pretty much everything you say in contempt will forever ruin your forum reputation. Oh we agree on the occasional point, but for the most part, not at all. Guess what, refusing to back up your claims loses you the entire argument. Relevance? It's something you never had and never will have. I can't even try to take you seriously anymore. You aren't even a pilot, Gyrok, you are a forum warrior. I misspoke earlier, you have to be a pilot to be a crap pilot. Your world is one of self delusion, fantasy. I'm here whenever you can bring up the courage to face me. Make me eat my words, I know you want to. I know that deep down, somewhere, in the bottom of that soulless husk you call a brain, you harbor anger and resentment. Allow that to surface. Face me, release your anger. I won't even Fraps your humiliation should you fail it will be between us. Come now, stand up! Off of your knees and take your place as a man!

I could picture you being one of those guys who is into doxxing.

[Jungle Rhino]

[Widowmaker1981]

And this, right here, is why you don't balance the game around scrub gameplay.

OP is T4.

OP says the duration penalty on the C-ERLL is 'meaningless'

OP is wrong, because he has been mislead by his opponents. He thinks that having a long duration is not a problem, because it ISNT a problem when your opponents stand there like potatoes and don't twist, or move, or react quickly and shoot back at you. However, at higher skill levels the C-ERLL is basically a non weapon, no one uses them because they actually SUCK, due to the duration.

In order to understand balance, you cannot just look at numbers. You have to actually use both sides for extended amounts of time, with at least somewhat decent opposition.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 14 March 2016 - 03:38 AM.