195 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

You do realize what with the T5 badge and PUGlandia symbol, that's sarcasm, right?

[Pjwned]

Darth Hotz, on 19 March 2016 - 04:18 PM, said:

The problem with LRMs is not the single lurmboat on the battlefield, it is the masses of mechs that have at least some installed. It seems that LRMs became a trend in the last weeks and more and more seem to equip them.

Meanwhile the masses apparently refuse to equip AMS.

[Damia Savon]

All this makes me wish there was a section in the tutorials regarding how LRMS work and how to counter them. Granted the idiots usually don't do the tutorials but anything is better than nothing.

[ArmandTulsen]

The tutorial is awesome.

FREE MONEY!

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

LRM's are the most hard countered weapon in the game. And arguably, require 1-2 of the the following support equipment to use effectively: Tag, Narc, BAP, Artemis, not to mention enough ammo to make the weapon viable.

That's not to say they cannot be amazing in the right situation, but idealy, an LRM "lance" can shut down a team if utilized properly.

The thing is, they're one of the most situational weapons inthe game, and are defeated by: Hard Cover, Broken Line of Sight, ECM, AMS [including massed AMS] and various other support equipment/modules like Radar Deprevation.

Where as with other weapons, ECM and AMS are pointless since you can still hit the enemy while under these conditions.

At the end of the day, the only reason to hate on LRM's, is because you want to waltz around in the absolute open without a care in the world, and get grumbly when you get your face pushed in by the metal rain.

[Vossiewulf]

I rarely have issues with LRMs, because I never, ever go into any match without a radar dep module. In fact I have fun encouraging the boats to waste their ammo on me.

Only problem is when you can't break line of sight to all the enemy. This doesn't really worry me because if that's the situation, you're almost certainly in a place you shouldn't be if you got there by choice, or it's that your team is losing badly. With the former you deserve it, with the latter you're screwed anyway so why does it matter who kills you.

[El Bandito]

So there are still Founders crusading against LRMs in this day and age, eh? Meh.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

El Bandito, on 19 March 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

So there are still Founders crusading against LRMs in this day and age, eh? Meh.

I have to wonder if the LRMgeddon's caused them PTSD.

[panzer1b]

I just dont understand why people have such issues with LRMs outside of T4-5 (where many people will run into the midde of an open field, dont know what a UAV looks like, facetank like a baws, and die to LRMs because of this). Any serious player (and im not talking about the comp scene, anyone with a basic understanding of the game and ~100 games or so played should understand how to use cover on every map to avoid such weapons. I know it may sound harsh, but if you arent completely new to this game (and there is nothing wrong with that), and you are having major trouble with LRMs killing you, then you have to seriously reconsider your approach to this game, learn to use cover, and if you insist on sitting in the middle of an open field, at least do yourself a favor and use ECM so they need TAG to lock onto you.

LRMs are just too easy to counter (ECM, target derpivation, cover and using common sense), cannot be focused on a component of the user's choice, and launchers above the LRM10 have too much spread to be viable against anything but a king crab or other massive target. I do still use LRMs occasionally as a secondary weapon on a energy boat such as 2 LRM5s on a timby or hellbringer in order to shoot at stuff while relocating and unable to use direct fire weapons, but i never rely on them. Only time i ever run dedicated LRM boats is when i am in a organized team and know someone is using a narc light to specifically get me locks. Otherwise, laser or ballistic weapons are the only viable option.

[The Lobsters]

I'm fairly new to the game, to me LRM's seem fairly balanced. If you are

A:- A lazy freeloader at the rear spamming at every secondhand lock you are only going to kill the guys stupid enough to not take the simple steps to avoid/limit the damage

or

B:- You are actively hunting specific targets and are fast enough to maintain LOS in a suitable mech until the target is dead it's going to take good team coordination to make you back away.

The risk vs reward seems fairly balanced imo.


You could say that there could be changes to discourage lazy lurming and encourage active lurming ,but it seems to me that is already the case with the bonuses from tag and artemis.

There aren't actually that many decent lrm mechs in game and you rarely see them. That Highlander fit in the op is really not a effective as people might think and is only really good for making a big scary noise and culling idiots in Direwolves.

As far as the Archers goes there is maybe only one that's good with lrm's, and I mean good, not great.


Idk. Nerf the bad lrm play and buff the good lrm play.


or L2p

[GernMiester]

If you stand there taking LRM hits it is 100% you. If you keep getting hit by LRMS its 100% you. That is how it works and points to bad decisions on positioning and your lack of situational awareness. It's a battlefield get a clue and play like it is.

Would you derp into open ground in a combat situation? The fact LRMS even concern you says you might be that guy. After you got shot would you point the blame and say that there are too many guns and the military should use rubber bullets?

1 ECM mech with a clue and using cover can nerf an enemy LRM team but it takes situational awareness and a willing ecm mech pilot.

I just move and those LRMs suddenly become wasted ammo. I don't spend unnecessary time in the open because that would be stupid. I never run AMS because it is only good at giving up your position. I run some LRM mechs and if the team is good I can do massive damage. If the team is bad then the 2 or 3ML backup is not going to stop any mech from making short work of me.

[El Bandito]

Lupis Volk, on 19 March 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

Best thing PGI should do is.

1. enforce a limit to how many LRM boats there are on a team.

2. make ams and it's ammo cost no weight or slot space.

Hahahanope.gif.

[Daycrist Bloodfang]

The thing with LRMs is that LRM boats do not require the player to ever reveal themselves as a target....just have a spotter and they do the same damage as if they direct fired them. I think to balance them better since the idea nowadays is to boat as many tubes as possible and as much ammo as possible, is to make a damage difference between direct fire and indirect fire. So direct firing would do damage as normal but indirect firing would do considerably less depending on how any spotters you have for that target. So 1 spotter would mean only 15%-25% dmg per launcher 2 spotters would mean 30%-45% dmg per launcher, to a max of 3 or 4 to a max of 75% dmg per launcher. This would reward players who use lrm boats and direct fire their weapons more than the ones who always rely on indirect fire.

GernMiester, on 19 March 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

If you stand there taking LRM hits it is 100% you. If you keep getting hit by LRMS its 100% you. That is how it works and points to bad decisions on positioning and your lack of situational awareness. It's a battlefield get a clue and play like it is.

Would you derp into open ground in a combat situation? The fact LRMS even concern you says you might be that guy. After you got shot would you point the blame and say that there are too many guns and the military should use rubber bullets?

1 ECM mech with a clue and using cover can nerf an enemy LRM team but it takes situational awareness and a willing ecm mech pilot.

I just move and those LRMs suddenly become wasted ammo. I don't spend unnecessary time in the open because that would be stupid. I never run AMS because it is only good at giving up your position. I run some LRM mechs and if the team is good I can do massive damage. If the team is bad then the 2 or 3ML backup is not going to stop any mech from making short work of me.

It's called TAG with it's 600+m range overrides ECM.....as does narc on the ecm mech

[The Lobsters]

Daycrist Bloodfang, on 19 March 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

The thing with LRMs is that LRM boats do not require the player to ever reveal themselves as a target....just have a spotter and they do the same damage as if they direct fired them.

Tag and Artemis is much better than the tag and narc that a good spotter can provide, and that's if the spotter, which is usually a light can get his tag on, AND the lrm mech does not have artemis which cancels the narc even without LOS, which is needed for artemis to work anyway.

Not to mention the actual skill elements of knowing when to shoot, making sure the missiles hit, reading the situation and the terrain and keeping LOS while taking/dodging incoming fire.

Ultimately, actively getting LOS with your own tag is the more effective option. Artemis gives a better spread bonus that narc too.

On my dedicated lrm boats I'll have maximum 6.5 tons of ammo and I do more for the team that any "I HAZ LURMS, PLS LOCKS FOR MEES PLS FOR MY 40,000000 MISSILES PLS" routine.

Edited by The Lobsters, 19 March 2016 - 08:38 PM.

[Mole]

You know, I've recently been using LRMs for the first time. I got a Kintaro not too long ago. I was using it with SRMs with some success but found it largely lackluster. I then decided to try the old 5 LRM5 build I'd seen before because, well, why not? Turns out it was really good. I've done the same on my Archer. I'm doing really well raining on enemy mechs with LRM5s. I can get a target and hold them and LRM them down in what feels like a few seconds. Why is this happening? It's not because LRMs are OP. It's not because I'm super skilled. It's because the people I am targeting don't use bloody cover. Seriously, when you've got a constant stream of LRM5s raining in on you for what must be a full 30 seconds and you fail to find some way to either break lock or put an object between you and the incoming missiles, that is ENTIRELY your fault. You cannot blame the LRM pilot. You cannot blame the weapon system. That is on you and nobody and nothing else. I'm quite frankly taken aback that I am doing so well with LRMs in Tier 2. They're so easy for me to avoid, why can't everyone else grasp the simple concept of taking cover? I really don't know. But I imagine the kind of people that I just described that fall prey to my LRMs are the ones complaining about LRMs being OP.

Edited by Mole, 19 March 2016 - 08:53 PM.

[RestosIII]

El Bandito, on 19 March 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

Hahahanope.gif.

Legit, that's one of the worst ideas I've ever seen. AMS and its ammo weighing nothing? RIP LRMs even more.

[Agent 0range]

The Lobsters, on 19 March 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

Tag and Artemis is much better than the tag and narc that a good spotter can provide, and that's if the spotter, which is usually a light can get his tag on, AND the lrm mech does not have artemis which cancels the narc even without LOS, which is needed for artemis to work anyway.

Not to mention the actual skill elements of knowing when to shoot, making sure the missiles hit, reading the situation and the terrain and keeping LOS while taking/dodging incoming fire.

Ultimately, actively getting LOS with your own tag is the more effective option. Artemis gives a better spread bonus that narc too.

On my dedicated lrm boats I'll have maximum 6.5 tons of ammo and I do more for the team that any "I HAZ LURMS, PLS LOCKS FOR MEES PLS FOR MY 40,000000 MISSILES PLS" routine.

this guy has it right lrms are so much more effective when you are actively locking your own targets using arti and tag but you need speed and a mech to support to do it and firing at a target arounf 200-400m away.

[wanderer]

Lupis Volk, on 19 March 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

Best thing PGI should do is.

1. enforce a limit to how many LRM boats there are on a team.

2. make ams and it's ammo cost no weight or slot space.

When you unironically believe this, you have lost the game before you even began.

Pardon me while I enjoy the delicate sound of every competent player on the thread laughing at this post.

[Thunder Child]

Personally, I'd like to see the removal of having to hold a lock. Make them Fire and Forget like every other weapon in the game. This would be a HUGE buff to Direct Firing them, making them actually useful in a firefight (though still inferior to any Point and Click Laser or Single Shot Ballistic. We won't count the LbX in that category. It deserves it's own sob-story).

It would also be a HUGE buff to Indirect firing, but to counter that, you increase Dispersion by 50% for the 5, 40% for the 10, 30% for the 15, and 20% for the 20 when firing them indirectly. Why give 20s the smallest dispersion? Because then people might ACTUALLY use them. Currently, you're better off mounting a pair of 5s and Lasers, than you are dedicating the Mass to a pair of 20s.

Of course, if LRMs are still stupidly OP, and you just cannot live with them affecting you every game, get a Kitfox. Mount the C RA with ECM and Triple AMS. Load 6-8 tons of Ammo, and go forth. You are now completely invincible to LRMs. Gauss and/or Laser Vomit? Not so much.

[Clownwarlord]

Have lrms gone to far.

50% of MWO pop says yes and the other says no.