386 replies to this topic

[Morggo]

Really like what I am seeing for the most part.
Not totally comfortable with these "heat dissipation" quirks in place of heat gen but we'll see how it plays out before judging.

( I was going to poke fun at the wife's recent purchase of her black knights.. but then I bought a bunch of Locusts last night.. so... whoops )

Here's my question, and I'll probably need to re-re-re-read some sections but perhaps others have already figured out his question:

Q: Me and my 8 lancemates will not form a Unit, just not something anyone has been interested in. However, the 4v4 scounting looks like it will be very fun.
- #1: If we group up and are all solo's playing with none or differing factions... we cannot drop 4v4?
- #2: If we group up and are all solo's but under the same faction flag... we can drop 4v4?
- #2.5: Assuming we are a group, same faction, what queue would we drop in (unit or solo) for 4v4

My head hurts... but I'm ready to jump in!

Cheers,
Morg

Edited by Morggo, 19 April 2016 - 08:30 AM.

[Ibrandul Mike]

crustydog, on 19 April 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

So - Mercs get to rank 10 - then no more merc rewards?

You have to become loyalists after that?

Or is it rank 10 working for each faction?

The notes are most unclear about this.

Actually it is absolutely clear. You have 10 ranks as a mercenary. Not 10 ranks for each faction. It is your mercenary rank. For doing mercenary work.
And no you don´t have to become a loyalist after that. It is your choice. You could still be a mercenary but with no benefit rank wise.

[Ibrandul Mike]

Morggo, on 19 April 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Q: Me and my 8 lancemates will not form a Unit, just not something anyone has been interested in. However, the 4v4 scounting looks like it will be very fun.
- #1: If we group up and are all solo's playing with none or differing factions... we cannot drop?
- #2: If we group up and are all solo's but under the same faction flag... we can drop?
- #2.5: Assuming we are a group, same faction, what queue would we drop in (unit or solo)

#1 If you are without a faction you shouldn´t be able to drop. Mercenarys yes. Loyalists yes. Factionless only if there would be a call. And then it probably would have to be a sync drop. But I am not sure if they said the call was for scout missions too
#2 Not clear. You should only get into the solo que ... but then grouping up would be unfair. I think they said something like "If you are grouped and in the same faction, you drop into the group que / Unit que" in a town hall. Would make sense, because there should be no difference for the team play involved. The unit tag doesn´t make you a better player or teamworker.
#2.5 I would assume unit que ... but that is really something I couldn´t find in the notes

Koshirou, on 19 April 2016 - 02:07 AM, said:

So, are existing loyalty points going to be reset? Because if they're not, existing "loyalist" units with many veteran have a very strong incentive to change to "Mercenary" and work for their house of choice, which would also increase their rewards by reducing the loyalist population.

As the notes say the population of a faction is a combination of loyalist and mercenary units/troops working for that faction. So it would increase the rewards if there ... lets say would be 500 players and there would be a big enough drop in that faction. Otherwise there shouldn´t be enough fluctuation for it to matter.

---

And now my problem with reading the patch notes correctly

Am I stupid or is the only way to become a loyalist to join/create a unit first?
Because it explicitly said: Mercenarys can pledge. Mercenarys by definition are in a unit. It would make sense, as you can only get a contract if you are a mercenary, not as a freelancer. But getting to be a loyalist by first creating garbage for the system, if you then drop the unit ... seems quite strange doesn´t it?

---

Edit: One more thing:
Who will be bankrupted by the entree fee? Do you really think about that? Or are you just seeing the final payment?
If you have inactive members, get rid of them. If you have players that play only once 1 month ... they should still be able to earn the 50k and give them to the unit. That would be one more person per month for the unit.
But let me explain it ... it is a 50000 C-Bill fee for every person at that moment in the unit. So lets say you have 5 people, every one of them has to pay 50000 C-Bill for the 6th person. Not that much for a single person. If you have 200 inactive members in your unit ... yeah it will cost you a lot. But then ... why do you have 200 inactive members?

And that system could be gamed. Every invite costs the 50k per person in the unit at that moment. IF the system doesn´t count the tickets as extra people, you could ... let´s say buy 10 tickets, if you invite 10 people at the same time and take the invite back, before they accept. That would be 10 tickets for the old price ... and many of us have much more than 10 people on their lists. So like I said ... if they don´t count tickets as people (and that would mean they had really thought it through), you can trick and save a lot of money.
But even then ... be honest: If you make 50k to 400k C-Bills (and that is a broad range, but I assume there are bad and some more or less good players playing ... others make much more) in one quickplay ... with only one game you could easily pay for 1 to 8 new players ... if every member of the unit spends. If your players earn around 100k per game each ... it would be two invites for 15 minutes of "work" for the unit. Yeah ... sounds to me like the system is ruining open units ... they could only invite 2 new players a month if their members are social and at least online for more than one game once a month. How TOTALLY UNFAIR! How could PGI do that? Those high costs! Fifty thousand c-bills for a new player! Fifty thousand! Can you imagine? (like I said, if every member gives 50-100k a month, 2 invites per month are no problem ... and it is irrelevant how many member the unit has)

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 19 April 2016 - 08:53 AM.

[L1f3H4ck]

The buffed my beloved Locust. That's all that matters. Thanks.

[hybrid black]

Triordinant, on 18 April 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

That's the idea.

and wont stop any of the main ones

Appogee, on 19 April 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

Will it even nerf MS, though? They'll stay as big as they are. They can even just pass on the cost of new recruits to the recruits. (I could join them 12 times this week if I wanted to, just from my CBill reserves.)

Meantime, large units will be able to deploy multiple scouting teams on a planet, winning all the scouting bonuses, and make the jobs of their invasion teams even easier. As a result, smaller and Medium Units will have an even tougher time hanging onto any planets they win.

I dunno. I guess we will see how it plays out.

no it wont effect mercstar at all

[Triordinant]

hybrid black, on 19 April 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

and wont stop any of the main ones.

Maybe they should all be auto-disbanded by PGI and allowed to reform from scratch.

[Want0n]

Patch is up. 350 Mb though?

[Triordinant]

Want0n, on 19 April 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

Patch is up. 350 Mb though?

Yup. Just finished patching. Took less than 5 minutes.

[Kael Posavatz]

The rewards system is simply another tool PGI is using to try and game player behavior.

The combination of MC rewards and fees to add players to unit is intended to put internal stress on larger units to foment their breakups. Russ has spoken on this repeatedly over the last several townhalls.

By creating separate reward ladders, and making one available to mercs at a 'zero level', while not zeroing rewards for loyalists they are creating a pressure zone for players to go Merc by making additional rewards available. This will be particularly appealing to those who were previously loyalists and have maxed out their reward tree, while being ideal for PGI because the new tools in Phase III will allow them to control player populations. If too many players were loyalist, however, these tools become a joke.

Speaking of, let us look at rewards.

Adding them up Mercs will receive: 88,275,000 c-bills, 4000MC, 5 mechbays, a week of premium time, and 1 cockpit item

Loyalists will receive: 139,425,000 c-bills, 4000MC, 5 mechbays, 5 cockpit items, 1 cockpit loyalty medallion, and 138500GXP

The GXP rewards for loyalists, especially at the higher tiers, has always been something of a joke. If you manage to make it to Lv 20 you have so much GXP squirreled away with nothing to spend it on that getting 30- or 50-k amounts to an overlooked change of digits. The C-bills are nice but again, past a certain point just another way of keeping score with not a whole lot to spend them on. Cockpit items are kind of meh, and aside from the loyalty medallion aren't even flavored towards specific factions.

The real prizes are the MC and Mechbays.


So take two players.

Play 1 has amassed 1,060,000 loyalty points by playing as a member of 1 faction. He has earned...all the stuff in the loyalty rewards mentioned above.

Player 2 has amassed 1,060,000 loyalty points earning 106,000 loyalty points for each faction. (Since loyalty points can't be less than zero it is possibly to do a full tour without having to 'earn back' negative points by only switching factions after accruing requisite points). This earns him through Tier 8 of each faction picking up, notably, 20 Mechbays (15 more than Player 1, 15x300mc =4500mc for those interested).

With the way rewards are structured, PGI is telling Player 2 "you are doing what we want, here are some more rewards", and Player 1 "You make our lives difficult, enjoy the rest of your reward tier"

Now, granted, this is largely the perspective of those who are loyalists, and who have maxed (or largely maxed) out their reward tiers. On the other hand, it is also the perspective of someone who has been at this game enough to have maxed out his reward tier.

[Quincy McAllister]

Thank you indeed for finally delivering this long awaited patch.

[The Wolfpack75]

Honestly as someone who plays once or twice a week, and has no unit, I don't see anything to be excited about in the notes.
As a freelancer you get no additional incentive to play CW, as a solo mercenary you end up playing in the CW group queue, and as a solo factioner you can play in the solo queue and grind forever to get bonuses.
Really, as a solo player who occasionally gets to play with two friends (thus one short of the necessary number for 4v4) nothing in this patch is as crazy awesome as everyone seems to be reacting.

[pacifica812]

Ranks remain intact. Map has not been reset... yet

Lol. My bad

Edited by pacifica812, 19 April 2016 - 10:42 AM.

[Dee Eight]

crustydog, on 19 April 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

So - Mercs get to rank 10 - then no more merc rewards?

You have to become loyalists after that?

Or is it rank 10 working for each faction?

The notes are most unclear about this.

10 levels but the final payout levels Cbills are the same. Also Merc's get more MC rewards and do not get GXP rewards. The problem I have with the new rewards is that they're eliminating the old wide range of sphere mech bay farming mercenary thing, and also forcing people who only want to solo-play to end up having to form merc units one themselves, and then sticking them in with other units as currently happens. The new solo's only queue is being restricted to loyalists and freeloaders.

[VendingMachine]

Why you nerf my Nova legs?

[avenger cannon]

2nd new Warhorn that I don't see on Soundcloud.

[Yosharian]

The VND-1AA is fine guys! It doesn't need any tuning!

PGI, a sincere message to you: get your heads out of your collective asses you muppets.

ok maybe that was a bit harsh

Edited by Yosharian, 19 April 2016 - 11:15 AM.

[Lorne Malvo]

so forgive me if I am wrong but does this mean I can still complete my mechbay tour by simply pledging loyality and immediately desert and play 10 days as the one faction to get to rank 6 and then go on to the next faction? If so - cool... if not - meh.

[Tom Sawyer]

Perhaps I had higher hopes. Maybe I dream too large. But I can not see this phase 3 as nothing more than a few restrictions and bells and whistles.

Once you drop it will be the same game mode. The same giant gates and exposed generators. A giant cannon to blow up or defend.

Was it wrong to hope for more? Maybe a giant space base with multiple points such as a control tower, a bunker, a radar station that need to be defended or taken? Units having to use tactics to decide what was worth more, what to attack, or defend. Rolling maps where it gets progressively harder to take each map?

Sure there is 4v4 with the concept of running around to collect data points. But that could have been done in a 12v12. Might have been larger maps with points way out that only a speedy mech would want to get to.

I suppose in their way PGI listened and implemented what they could.

[The Wolfpack75]

Tom Sawyer, on 19 April 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Was it wrong to hope for more?

Yes, this is PGI.


Edited: What I meant by that is I try to temper my expectations and think others should as well. Every patch there are bugs that are fixed and new bugs that crop up, a nerf that is good and a nerf that isn't. I've just had to learn not to get super excited when PGI reveals something in a new patch. I've been here a long time and it's best to not focus on one positive (or negative) too strongly. The game is very fluid and things change monthly.

Edited by The Wolfpack75, 19 April 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[sycocys]

Tom Sawyer, on 19 April 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Perhaps I had higher hopes. Maybe I dream too large. But I can not see this phase 3 as nothing more than a few restrictions and bells and whistles.

Pretty sad that they didn't even whip together a new map with all that extra time off their art department had over the last month.