247 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

Mcgral18, on 23 April 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

Objectively speaking, the Oxide has advantages no other Light mech has in the game.

Why the other lights have no love like the oxide had?
Why the community wants the oxide to be nerfed, instead of all others light to be buffed?

(my answer: because 95% of community suck in piloting lights, and as soon as some light is good, they want it dead, 'cause they don't know how to handle and pilot a light.)

[STEF_]

Tripzter, on 23 April 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

lol pay 2 win refers to unfair advantage reletive to the non paying version. regular jenners arent bugged to hell and die when you shoot them. oxides not so much so yeah pay 2 win.

I bought my oxide along with grind iron and top dog..... paying zero (ZERO) real dollars.

A lot of free mc in CW, and pgi events.

So, your p2w is a lie, gone down the toilet.

[Mcgral18]

Stefka Kerensky, on 23 April 2016 - 09:31 PM, said:

Why the other lights have no love like the oxide had?
Why the community wants the oxide to be nerfed, instead of all others light to be buffed?

(my answer: because 95% of community suck in piloting lights, and as soon as some light is good, they want it dead, 'cause they don't know how to handle and pilot a light.)

My God Quirk Cheetah had a 6 K/d ratio and over 500 average damage, with 350 matches
I think I know a thing or two about Lights.


As I said in that quote, the Oxide could have the weapon quirks, OR the structure quirks.
The Jenners in general should get parts of those structure quirks, with the unfortunate geometry.


However, having BOTH the Guns and the Tank, brings it a touch too far, just like the Cheetah.

Edited by Mcgral18, 23 April 2016 - 09:37 PM.

[STEF_]

Mcgral18, on 23 April 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

My God Quirk Cheetah had a 6 K/d ratio and over 500 average damage, with 350 matches
I think I know a thing or two about Lights.

I believe u!
and that's why, back in the day, there has been an hellish campaign against the Cheetah here in forum.

My questions are still there.

Why ppl here wants light to be nerfed when it is good, instead of all the others poor light to be buffed and good?

In my opinion is because 95% of players do not pilot lights, and have no clue about facing then or piloting them.
That's why the lights que is always the poor one.
All other poor lights should be buffed, imo.

[Scout Derek]

Sorry Daniel, but I'm going to edit the clickbait title to:

"Sorry but the Oxide is Fine as is"

I know you're angry about that thread, but making bait threads over such shouldn't be necessary. Since your post did contain an actual reason behind it instead of just bait, I'm going to keep it open.

[Malachy Karrde]

Here is the reason lights get nerfed: a light mech pilot can make dozens of stupid moves and walk away from them. A medium mech pilot can make 3 or 4 stupid mistakes and walk away from it. A heavy mech pilot can make 1 or 2 stupid moves and maybe walk away from it. An assault mech pilot can afford to make 0 stupid mistakes and if he makes even a half way bad move, he doesn't walk away from it. In my opinion lights need to be forced into the scout and recon role and left there.

[Grey Ghost]

Darian DelFord, on 23 April 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Oh crap what did I say?

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Darian DelFord, on 23 April 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

stuff

Turn off throttle decay scrub

You think this is COD or something?

[Crenue]

People are just salty that they have to pay money $$$ for the Oxide or the Clan Oxide.

[Kassatsu]

Stefka Kerensky, on 23 April 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

I bought my oxide along with grind iron and top dog..... paying zero (ZERO) real dollars.

A lot of free mc in CW, and pgi events.

So, your p2w is a lie, gone down the toilet.

How long after the (hero mech of player's choice) was released did they add those? How long did grinding those out take you? How much of it was a reward from one-time events that anyone starting today or in the near future can never get? I don't mean how many days it took you, I mean how many matches, and what kind of scores did you have? Being tier 1 I can only assume you 1: Play more often than the 'average' player, and 2: consistently score higher than the average player in any given match.

P2W has become such a broad term, and while if I had to give it a proper definition, it would be along the lines of using real money to pay for advantages that can not be obtained without doing so, it often extends to simply skipping a long, painful grind to obtaining said advantages that would take the average player weeks or longer to get. It's that much worse when you're grinding/paying simply to be viable.

I'll agree on the light nerf bit though. Others should be buffed in some way rather than the 'best' ones simply being nerfed. Battle value system that makes a single mech's 1:1 comparative strength mean nothing in the face of superior numbers when?

Edited by Kassatsu, 23 April 2016 - 11:07 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Whenever a disproportionate number of skilled pilots use the same mech, it always seems OP.

Timberwolves seemed OP when a lot of good pilots used them, arctic cheetahs seemed OP when good pilots were still using them, oxide now seem OP because a lot of good pilots are using them.

People have a tendency to mistake skill for certain mechs being overpowered.

I see lots of oxides in game that get smashed without doing more than 50 dmg. They only seem OP because there are a lot of really good pilots using them right now.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 23 April 2016 - 11:17 PM.

[STEF_]

Kassatsu, on 23 April 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

How long after the (hero mech of player's choice) was released did they add those? How long did grinding those out take you? How much of it was a reward from one-time events that anyone starting today or in the near future can never get? I don't mean how many days it took you, I mean how many matches, and what kind of scores did you have? Being tier 1 I can only assume you 1: Play more often than the 'average' player, and 2: consistently score higher than the average player in any given match.

P2W has become such a broad term, and while if I had to give it a proper definition, it would be along the lines of using real money to pay for advantages that can not be obtained without doing so, it often extends to simply skipping a long, painful grind to obtaining said advantages that would take the average player weeks or longer to get. It's that much worse when you're grinding/paying simply to be viable.

I'll agree on the light nerf bit though. Others should be buffed in some way rather than the 'best' ones simply being nerfed. Battle value system that makes a single mech's 1:1 comparative strength mean nothing in the face of superior numbers when?

So..... you are here since 2012...and u haven't understood that mwo is all about grinding (since day one) yet?

It's not a problem if u do well, have good teamates and enjoy the game.

also, the tier 1 mechs are all there for free. I don't see the oxide as the exception, since there are good lights for c-bills too.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 23 April 2016 - 11:24 PM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

I Zeratul I, on 23 April 2016 - 11:13 PM, said:

Timberwolves seemed OP when a lot of good pilots used them, arctic cheetahs seemed OP when good pilots were still using them, oxide now seem OP because a lot of good pilots are using them.

1) Timberwolves WERE op.

2) Arctic cheetahs WERE op (less to do with mech and more with hitboxes but still)

3) Maybe it's just that good pilots flock to the OP mechs b/c they can take advantage of it's broken-ness the most? That's where my money is.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 23 April 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

1) Timberwolves WERE op.

2) Arctic cheetahs WERE op (less to do with mech and more with hitboxes but still)

3) Maybe it's just that good pilots flock to the OP mechs b/c they can take advantage of it's broken-ness the most? That's where my money is.

I think most of this game's community wouldn't be able to recognize the difference between a balanced mech and an OP mech. They don't think in terms of statistics and in game variables. The only thing they know is they get killed repeatedly by a certain mech or they see a certain mech getting a lot of kills and inflicting a lot of damage.

If they get killed repeatedly by timberwolves they think timberwolves are "OP".
If they get killed repeatedly by arctic cheetahs they think arctic cheetahs are "OP".
If they get killed repeatedly by oxides they think oxides are "OP".

The reason I disagree with people who claim mechs are OP is, they never leave any room for skill being a relevent factor.

They never even consider its possible that the reason they died 10 times to a timberwolf is because the timberwolf pilot is more skilled than them.

Instead they make these kneejerk reactions and assume their skill is equal to the "Op mech pilots skill" and the better mech won -- an extremely flawed assumption in most cases.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 23 April 2016 - 11:56 PM.

[TheCharlatan]

How can one tell if the Oxide is OP?
Let's review it's pros and cons:

• Pros: structure quirks lets it survive 1 or 2 extra glancing hits (a direct well aimed hit still wrecks it), it has great DPS thanks to quirks (both cooldown and heat gen quirks means that it can put out more alphas than most lights. i.e. it can capitalize better on heavier mech's mistakes because it can keep biting at them when they are in difficulty while other lights would have to back off because of heat).
  
• Cons: no JJs for a Boom&Zoom mech (it might seem like nothing special, but requires much better piloting), horrible hitboxes (it's a jenner, and anybody saying that the thing is hard to kill needs to aim better), ammo limited (it means it can't really carry, as you are damage limited), choke full of ammo (sometimes a lucky hit just makes you mech explode), vulnerable to Streaks (like other lights).

All in all, what i see here is a mech that can really punish enemy mistakes, to the point that making a mistake against it means taking a lot of damage and maybe dying.
Is this something that other lights can't do? Yes, but most can't do this as well as the Oxide.
But most other good lights don't have all the drawbacks: FS9 and ACH both have much better hitboxes, are not ammo dependant on their knife-fighting builds, and have JJs.
When compared to the IIC, it gets more sustainability at the expense of firepower and JJs, which is a fine trade for me (i personally love the IIC more than the Oxide, but that's probably because i'm a bad pilot and need the JJ crutch).
I'd say the Oxide is on par with the top Lights.
Other lights are behind that, and could use a small buff (or not: us light pilots like our rides to be nail biters ).

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

I Zeratul I, on 23 April 2016 - 11:52 PM, said:

The reason I disagree with people who claim mechs are OP is, they never leave any room for skill being a relevent factor.

Except skill isn't actually a factor to whether a mech is balanced....b/c that is a quality the user has, and not one the tool has.

An "OP" mech is good no matter who pilots it.
A **** mech is good only with a good pilot.
A balanced mech is bad with a bad pilot, and good with a good pilot.

Timbers, ACH's, and Oxides fall into the first category.
Locusts fall into the second.
Hunchbacks fall into the third.

P.S. same applies to weapons.... lasers are good no matter who's using them, ballistics depend on the user, and LRMs are trash unless you know what you're doing.

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 24 April 2016 - 12:25 AM.

[The Mech behind you]

Yup, business as usual. As soon as a light can keep up with the other mech classes it has to be nerfed. A year back people laughed upon the Oxide now it's its cycle for a nerf agenda. I wish the other lights would be boosted to the Oxides and Cheetas levels. This is another way to make light mechs even in performance. But instead there's an uproar every time a light mech leaves its roll as a no threatening easy kill. 15% light queue is waaay to high. Isn't it?

I solo'ed a singled out Warhawk in a Panther 10P with only 2x SRM4 yesterday. He had nothing but Lurms and PPCs and decided it's a good idea to start a knife fight with me. Ofc I was able to outturn him most of the time and rear core him. This assault kill is clearly the fault of an OP PNT-10P. It's unbearable, nerf the PNT-10P nao!

On topic of the structure buffs: The Oxide has structure buffs because it doesn't have JJs like the other Jenners. So if you like to remove the structure buffs then let's give it the JJs back to be on par with the other Jenners. An Oxide with JJs. Let's see how this plays out.

Heck, I have to defend the Oxide here. I even don't like the mech. But I can't stand the whole 'nerf the lights' agenda anymore.

We had so many nerfed lights in the past years and did it change anything? Nerf one light and there will be another one right behind your aussault chewing through your rear platings. There will be another squirrel that makes half of your team turn around and leaving the front line. Because it's not the light mech that either force the target to do such stupid things or kill a whole lance on its own.

P.S.: Next time on 'nerf the lights': The Locust

Edited by The Mech behind you, 24 April 2016 - 12:30 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 24 April 2016 - 12:21 AM, said:

Except skill isn't actually a factor to whether a mech is balanced....b/c that is a quality the user has, and not one the tool has.

An "OP" mech is good no matter who pilots it.
A **** mech is good only with a good pilot.
A balanced mech is bad with a bad pilot, and good with a good pilot.

Timbers, ACH's, and Oxides fall into the first category.
Locusts fall into the second.
Hunchbacks fall into the third.

P.S. same applies to weapons.... lasers are good no matter who's using them, ballistics depend on the user, and LRMs are trash unless you know what you're doing.

I wish it were possible to do an experiment where 100 of the best pilots in the game used the same mech.

If 100 of the best pilots in the game used ravens, spiders or commandos for an entire month in the pug queue, I bet we would see a lot of "ravens/spiders/commandos are OP nerf now" threads on the forums.

Would it be because ravens/spiders/commandos are OP? Or would it be because the high skill level of the pilots using the mechs created an illusion they were OP?

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

I Zeratul I, on 24 April 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

Would it be because ravens/spiders/commandos are OP? Or would it be because the high skill level of the pilots using the mechs created an illusion they were OP?

Weren't you just the guy that said we should be comparing mechs based on what they were capable of in and of themselves and not based on gut reactions?

Maybe after that you could put the 100 worst in oxides for a week, followed by commandos for a week....and then compare their performances.

Spoiler alert: There's a reason every 3'rd person uses the oxide, and no one uses commandos.

P.S. If you're going to quote and blow things up.... get the whole sentence and keep it in context rather than trying to cherry pick.

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 24 April 2016 - 12:51 AM.

[STEF_]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 24 April 2016 - 12:21 AM, said:

Except skill isn't actually a factor to whether a mech is balanced....b/c that is a quality the user has, and not one the tool has.

An "OP" mech is good no matter who pilots it.
A **** mech is good only with a good pilot.
A balanced mech is bad with a bad pilot, and good with a good pilot.

Timbers, ACH's, and Oxides fall into the first category.
Locusts fall into the second.
Hunchbacks fall into the third.

P.S. same applies to weapons.... lasers are good no matter who's using them, ballistics depend on the user, and LRMs are trash unless you know what you're doing.

Sorry for breaking your review, but there are many wrong things in it.

- I see a lot of pilots doing $h1t in Oxide, 'cause they are bad.
- Maybe because you just joined in sept-2015, you cannot remember oxide pre-quirks....it was $h1t, and you could see none in the battlefields.
- Ergo, the mech is bad (only 4 hardpoints, bad hitboxes, no JJ...). Its quirks are good, but the mech is bad.
- Ergo 2: if pgi would nerf it, it will be bad again, and disappear. Which would be stupid, 'cause there are too few tier 1 light choice.

Also.
Ballistic > Laser.... (BUT it requires aiming skill)

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 24 April 2016 - 01:09 AM.