141 replies to this topic

[DjPush]

They will never be able to have a decent MM until they get a decent size player base to log on. This game will never have that. In my opinion anyway.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

DjPush, on 27 April 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

They will never be able to have a decent MM until they get a decent size player base to log on. This game will never have that. In my opinion anyway.

Sure they could....except everyone would whine about wait times

[EvilCatEars]

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

(...)
The more competitive the games get due to the tier system, the more meta people will be loading their mechs with (I.E. gauss, erll, erppc, lpl, lrm) and the more saturated the tier will become with meta vomit builds that rely on perks that amplify damage at extreme ranges, while I'm sitting behind a rock with my SRM's and AC/20's, bored as the rock I'm standing behind.
(...)

So what prevents you from playing "you are not bringing SRMs you are doing it wrong" mode aka FW Scouting mode? There are no long range weapons there, and tiers do not matter.

By the way, you produced that wall of text, without offering any potential solutions to be implemented to fix the situation.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I just take and play what mech I want, just like I did in Tier 4 and Tier 3. I still do ok with less than ideal machines. Sometimes the night can get frustrating with high alphas and seemingly being focused down, but that happened in the other tiers too. If that happens, there are the better machines in my arsenal I can take if need be.

The one thing I do notice however is the enemy does tend to be more discriminate about where they aim. It does make mech like the MAD 3R with trip A/C5s a bit harder to run.

Still, I'll run it anyway. To heck with it, it is just a game.

[Escef]

What I've been seeing since I hit tier 2 was a lack of aggressive play. It's like people don't even want to win, I don't get it. As for the builds, I've seen some truly mind-boggling builds. Oh, and some of the worst combinations of build and playstyle, people take brawling builds and try to poke from as far away as they can. Saw a Highlander IIC just hang back at 400 meters and use LPLs yesterday, utterly ignoring the SRMs and UAC20 he had, ignoring the fact that no one on the enemy team was looking at him, ignoring the clear line of advance that was his for the taking... And I see this kind of stuff all the time. No aggression, no desire to fight, just... I don't get it.

[Red Shrike]

Zolaz, on 26 April 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

Here let me help you out.

http://metamechs.com/

I don't like that site. There's nothing but (Laser/Ballistic/Missile) vomit on that site.


P.S. None of my builds are on it.

Edited by Red Shrike, 27 April 2016 - 06:19 AM.

[LORD ORION]

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

The tier system was implemented quite some time ago if I remember correctly. I haven't moved up by a decent amount at all, maybe a few pixels or so. However, my statistics have only been improving, things like K/D, W/L.

Something else to note, and I think anyone in low-mid tier two will agree, is that the builds being run and the play-style being used is utter meta crap and it pisses the living hell out of me.

In 13/15 of my matches tonight, I had at least 30-40% or more of my armor stripped off from 600M out or further. Yes, you could use the argument that I'm a dumb player who doesn't know how to use cover. But no, not valid. Anyone that's played a game with me or watch me play knows that I know better than to peek a stalker with 6ERLL at 800M or something like that.

Three things that are problematic in my eyes:

The more competitive the games get due to the tier system, the more meta people will be loading their mechs with (I.E. gauss, erll, erppc, lpl, lrm) and the more saturated the tier will become with meta vomit builds that rely on perks that amplify damage at extreme ranges, while I'm sitting behind a rock with my SRM's and AC/20's, bored as the rock I'm standing behind.

Map design nowadays, such as Plexus, encourage peek and alpha gameplay that ruins the game for a lot of people. How do you think a new player feels, peeking out from a corner to fire at the enemy and getting 25% of his armor bursted off before he can even begin backing his mech up?

The obvious part here is the standard "Super low TTK and Convergence make this game crap", to which I would agree to some extent, sadly. low TTK, as a result of various balancing 'fixes' and the absolutely broken convergence mechanic only encourage people to run these bursty, peekaboo builds that are killing brawling as a style of play. This wouldn't be so bad if PGI gave some buffs to the brawlers and the ways in which they cover from the rain or vomit, but we haven't seen a significant boost to brawler's power since Ilya Muromets, in my opinion.

Do I think the game sucks? No. I love MWO and I've been playing for over three years now, and I won't stop anytime soon. I do however feel as though some changes need to be made to the long range/peekaboo/alpha-only style of gameplay that is, at least in tier two, ruining the game for me and many others from what I've witnessed.

Hell, even if you don't re-balance anything PGI, at least give me the god damn option to lower my tier.

I would gladly manually lower myself to tier 3 or 4 to experience more brawls and balanced, mixed-loadout gameplay, because that's what made me fall in love with this game.



Thoughts?



******************************* Adding this to make my point more clear:


And let's be clear, I really don't care about tier or rank in any video game for that matter. I am a Nova 4 in CSGO, which isn't a particularly high rank, but I don't pay attention to it because I have fun in the matches I'm placed in.

My point isn't "Wah Wah I wanna be tier 1 PGI change the game for me", it's "I'm having a kinda crappy experience and I think it has mostly to do with the tier system and the ways in which it brings out the most meta/frustrating parts of the game"

You'll need to bring a try hard meta mech because,..
1) when you have a team of potatoes it's the only way to score well enough to not drop PSR on a loss.
2) when you get into the occasional all T1 / T2 match, you are going to be destroyed instantly rather than realize you are in a great game.

http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

Use one of the T1 mechs and see how you do in the solo queue.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 April 2016 - 05:09 AM, said:

Not a bad idea, but at the current speeds most mechs are capable of, no one would bring anything but brawling weapons.

b/c if you were a sniper, they'd just chase you down and force you to brawl anyway

The inner sphere ER large laser has a cooldown of... *checks smurfy* 3.25 seconds.

What if it were bumped up to 5-7 seconds. PPC's bumped up to 6-8 seconds. LRM cooldown doubled across the board. And so on. (AC2's and 5's would be tough to balance, but maybe AC5's and AC2's should be nerfed since they aren't supposed to be better than AC10's or AC20's?).

That would reduce long range peek-a-boo back and forth, and give brawlers a bigger window for their charges. There wouldn't be as many cases where people were pinned down and huddled in a corner. Maybe more manly brawling wold ensue.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 27 April 2016 - 07:02 AM.

[Lugh]

Red Shrike, on 27 April 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I don't like that site. There's nothing but (Laser/Ballistic/Missile) vomit on that site.


P.S. None of my builds are on it.

Whispers* Maybe that's why you are down in tier 4?

[Dhatman]

DjPush, on 27 April 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

They will never be able to have a decent MM until they get a decent size player base to log on. This game will never have that. In my opinion anyway.

lower team size to 8 and make only games with 2 mechs of each class (funn part i have atm to wait longer if i want to play light class then with a heavy)

[Lugh]

I Zeratul I, on 27 April 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

The inner sphere ER large laser has a cooldown of... *checks smurfy* 3.25 seconds.

What if it were bumped up to 5-7 seconds. PPC's bumped up to 6-8 seconds. LRM cooldown doubled across the board. And so on. (AC2's and 5's would be tough to balance, but maybe AC5's and AC2's should be nerfed since they aren't supposed to be better than AC10's or AC20's?).

That would reduce long range peek-a-boo back and forth, and give brawlers a bigger window for their charges. There wouldn't be as many cases where people were pinned down and huddled in a corner. Maybe more manly brawling wold ensue.

It would not. There would be two types of games. Those where the majority brought those weapons and slug it out even more slowly than they are now.

And those where almost no one brought those weapons and everyone charges to FACEHUGGER ONLINE where staring at the oppositions hip sockets brings you the best results.

[Ghogiel]

I Zeratul I, on 27 April 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

The inner sphere ER large laser has a cooldown of... *checks smurfy* 3.25 seconds.

What if it were bumped up to 5-7 seconds. PPC's bumped up to 6-8 seconds. LRM cooldown doubled across the board. And so on. (AC2's and 5's would be tough to balance, but maybe AC5's and AC2's should be nerfed since they aren't supposed to be better than AC10's or AC20's?).

That would reduce long range peek-a-boo back and forth, and give brawlers a bigger window for their charges. There wouldn't be as many cases where people were pinned down and huddled in a corner. Maybe more manly brawling wold ensue.

That would remove all lasers beside LPL/Med/SMPL and completely remove any viability of those weapons from the game.

600m and under laser vomit and brawling is already the dominate meta lol

[Chip Danger]

DjPush, on 27 April 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

They will never be able to have a decent MM until they get a decent size player base to log on. This game will never have that. In my opinion anyway.

Agree 100% with you. Overall game pop is way to low. Very rarely do I drop anymore where I don't know at lest half the names in my so called random drop.

[Mystere]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 26 April 2016 - 09:17 PM, said:

Screw going up, I wanna go down, so Im not being matched with the tier 2 qand 1 guys that I cant beat. But I cant do that without thousands of suicide matches. But if I do THAT, Ill get banned.

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 09:20 PM, said:

Me too man, me too.

I've said it before and I will say it again: use a joystick.

Edited by Mystere, 27 April 2016 - 07:12 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Lugh, on 27 April 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

It would not. There would be two types of games. Those where the majority brought those weapons and slug it out even more slowly than they are now.

And those where almost no one brought those weapons and everyone charges to FACEHUGGER ONLINE where staring at the oppositions hip sockets brings you the best results.

"Everyone charges, facehugger online." Isn't that the goal being pursued? A mech game where people have a charge as a viable option?

I doubt it would change much. LRM's should be probably have a higher cooldown and slower recharge rate because they're too powerful. I would guess that it takes most people about 6-8 seconds to move back behind cover. move back out into the open line up their shot anyway so the higher cooldown wouldn't necessarily affect the rate of action because there normally aren't a lot of people who stand out in the open at 1000+ meters and shoot as soon as their weapons are finished recharging.

It just means that instead of boating 3 ER large lasers people will opt for 1 or 2 ER LL's and 4 medium lasers -- due to ER LL's not being as useful when brawling. They'll equip builds that are closer to tabletop builds.

Ghogiel, on 27 April 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

That would remove all lasers beside LPL/Med/SMPL and completely remove any viability of those weapons from the game.

600m and under laser vomit and brawling is already the dominate meta lol

I'm not saying to nerf all lasers only long range weapons like ER LL's, LL's, PPC's, ER PPC's and only nerfing their cooldown so they take roughly 2 times longer to recharge. Then increasing the projectile speed of PPC's & ER PPC's.

I don't think laser vomit is a dominate meta btw. I think people just got bored of using dakka so they're using other things to keep the game fresh.

[Bilbo]

Lugh, on 27 April 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

Whispers* Maybe that's why you are down in tier 4?

Doubtful, none of my mechs are on that site either.

LORD ORION, on 27 April 2016 - 06:30 AM, said:

You'll need to bring a try hard meta mech because,..
1) when you have a team of potatoes it's the only way to score well enough to not drop PSR on a loss.
2) when you get into the occasional all T1 / T2 match, you are going to be destroyed instantly rather than realize you are in a great game.

http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

Use one of the T1 mechs and see how you do in the solo queue.

I just bring a 12-pack and roll with it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

I Zeratul I, on 27 April 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

I think people just got bored of using dakka so they're using other things to keep the game fresh.

Dakka is still used today........

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 April 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

Dakka is still used today........

It is.

And people feel like the dug up a fossil from the jurassic era everytime they seeing someone in game using it?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

I Zeratul I, on 27 April 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

And people feel like the dug up a fossil from the jurassic era everytime they seeing someone in game using it?

No, because its been used since before the MSI tournament, basically once EmP used it in a match, all other units followed suit in trying it out and it is just now trickling down to lower tiers, or at least that specific build. UACs really never left PUG queue and only increased in usage after the re-balance. This myth that all this game revolves around is laser vomit stopped being true after the re-balance, this forum just seems slow to catch on.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 April 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[Ghogiel]

I Zeratul I, on 27 April 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

"Everyone charges, facehugger online." Isn't that the goal being pursued? A mech game where people have a charge as a viable option?

I doubt it would change much. LRM's should be probably have a higher cooldown and slower recharge rate because they're too powerful. I would guess that it takes most people about 6-8 seconds to move back behind cover. move back out into the open line up their shot anyway so the higher cooldown wouldn't necessarily affect the rate of action because there normally aren't a lot of people who stand out in the open at 1000+ meters and shoot as soon as their weapons are finished recharging.

It just means that instead of boating 3 ER large lasers people will opt for 1 or 2 ER LL's and 4 medium lasers -- due to ER LL's not being as useful when brawling. They'll equip builds that are closer to tabletop builds.



I'm not saying to nerf all lasers only long range weapons like ER LL's, LL's, PPC's, ER PPC's and only nerfing their cooldown so they take roughly 2 times longer to recharge. Then increasing the projectile speed of PPC's & ER PPC's.

I don't think laser vomit is a dominate meta btw. I think people just got bored of using dakka so they're using other things to keep the game fresh.

if you only nerf ER/LL/PPCs, you just make the current meta even better, which is to say lpl/ med will have no long range counter.

Besides the AC5 MAL, dakka isn't on a break because people got bored.