232 replies to this topic

[Raso]

I've never designed a car, let alone a perfect car. Does that mean I can't complain if my car suffers from chronic design flaws? Should I keep my mouth shut and not provide feedback on how to make a less crappy car? Do you need an fancy degree to design a cup holder that actual holds a typical 20 oz soda bottle or paper cup of coffee? Because engineers design cup holders that don't hold cups all the time so clearly that fancy degree doesn't make someone infallible.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 02 May 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

MAV?

Think Chrome Hounds, but not quite as in depth (but very similar combat/construction)


That was a nice game

[Elendil]

You know that old saying about 2 heads being better than one?

Well, I'd say when a couple hundred heads agree on something, there's a big chance they are more correct than the single head who disagrees.
Especially if that single head isn't really that great at planning things out or coming up with ideas (and thinks up things like totally dismissing the feelings and intelligence of its playerbase, or taking their loyalty and patronage for granted)...

Edited by Elendil, 02 May 2016 - 04:55 PM.

[Accused]

This is what I honestly don't understand.

True double heatsinks, no quirks (except for specific ones for the hunchbacks hunch), delayed convergence, max heat cap past which you explode, knockdowns, etc.

Why not put those on the test server and see what the hell happens? Kind of like a put up or shut up sort of deal. Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, but let people figure that out.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Accused, on 02 May 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

This is what I honestly don't understand.

True double heatsinks, no quirks (except for specific ones for the hunchbacks hunch), delayed convergence, max heat cap past which you explode, knockdowns, etc.

Why not put those on the test server and see what the hell happens? Kind of like a put up or shut up sort of deal. Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, but let people figure that out.

Yep. Small adjustments to features, that at first might be terrible, just need a tweak here and there, to add complexity and depth to the game. Yes, it adds more for newer players. At this point, there isnt much beyond the basics, other than exact mech loadouts.

For the experienced players, it could add new flavor to the game. Which is a Good Thing. It promotes dev/player interactions, which is a Good Thing. It lets us as players know PGI cares about the community, which is a Good Thing.

[Elendil]

Accused, on 02 May 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

Why not put those on the test server and see what the hell happens? Kind of like a put up or shut up sort of deal. Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, but let people figure that out.

But if we have the chance to prove we're right about something, it might prove that they are wrong...

I suppose they could just implement the ideas poorly on the test server, then remove them when they fail miserably.

Edited by Elendil, 02 May 2016 - 05:52 PM.

[oldradagast]

I'll admit that I, alone, probably can't make the game better than they can as a group.

And, I admit, that there are a lot of bad ideas floating around on the forums, though there are good ideas as well.

That being said, I think PGI could do two things to have the community take them more seriously:
- Fix the obvious stupid stuff. The Pinpoint skill, as a glaring example.
- Be more willing to make easily edited balance changes. The laughable state of LBX's and PPC's is an example. Ok, they - finally - gave them a small buff, but seriously, it's just an XML file. I've edited those plenty of times at work, and while I'm not saying they should just throw in random numbers, it wouldn't hurt to actually push the limits a bit to find balance. The current balance approach of "PPC's suck, so let's gradually adjust their heat down by 0.5 and their speed up by 100 m/s once per year until they are good." is just silly.

I'd rather go through a week or two of "LBX or PPC ageddon" with the weapons too good until they are properly balanced then going through several years or - at this rate - the remaining life of the game - with them being useless. It's not as if changes to the game, once done, can't be undone if they proof too good or unbalancing.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 May 2016 - 05:56 PM.

[Zolaz]

So Russ thinks Im on an island again?

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 April 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

I am legitimately curious about what Tina's job entails as community manager...

I know this is a sad necrobump, but the answer to the question is... "distraction".

That is the nicest way I can put it, because it means exactly however you wish.

[Funkin Disher]

This game was crowdfunded.

That's all I have to say.

[DovisKhan]

ScarecrowES, on 29 April 2016 - 11:30 PM, said:

Mediocre. If PGI intended for you to use MGs, they'd have given you light infantry to shoot at.

BS, because a brush with a laser would still be more effective, in both, range and damage

[badaa]

Alaric Hasek, on 29 April 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

Russ finally said it: the player base needs to stop thinking that it knows better than PGI how to develop this game. They don't. If you _can_, let me know when you finish your perfect game and I'll come play it. Until then, put up or shut up.

im guessing ur not playing the cw event

Edited by badaa, 03 July 2016 - 11:18 PM.

[Hit Mech]

So it's now a fact. Russ has his head up his arrogant butt. It was clear a long time ago (and still is) that Russ/PGI don't know what they are doing, and there needs to be some fresh talent at the top of PGI to move the game forward. The only thing saving PGI at the moment, is the fact that no one else is developing a game like MWO. So all the diehard fans of MechWarrior have no other choice. I think Russ has overlooked that fact and has fooled himself into believing he is doing a good job. Truth is, PGI is just riding the coat tails of BattleTech. There was already a large base of fans just waiting for someone to make an MWO game. So as someone else already said, MWO is a success in spite of Russ/PGI, not because they are doing a good dev job.

[Juodas Varnas]

Russ belongs in the circus.

#My2Centurions

[C E Dwyer]

Hit Mech, on 05 July 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

So it's now a fact. Russ has his head up his arrogant butt. It was clear a long time ago (and still is) that Russ/PGI don't know what they are doing, and there needs to be some fresh talent at the top of PGI to move the game forward. The only thing saving PGI at the moment, is the fact that no one else is developing a game like MWO. So all the diehard fans of MechWarrior have no other choice. I think Russ has overlooked that fact and has fooled himself into believing he is doing a good job. Truth is, PGI is just riding the coat tails of BattleTech. There was already a large base of fans just waiting for someone to make an MWO game. So as someone else already said, MWO is a success in spite of Russ/PGI, not because they are doing a good dev job.

Been saying this as have many here for years

But who are the bigger fools those that make it or those that continue to support, because of their Battletech/mechwarrior addiction.

I did think it was incredibly stupid, though I'm very glad he has, to get involved with HBS, and for me clearly demonstrated that Russ had no clue to how tenuous the continued support of MWO was

Edited by Cathy, 05 July 2016 - 12:18 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Alaric Hasek, on 29 April 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

Russ finally said it: the player base needs to stop thinking that it knows better than PGI how to develop this game. They don't. If you _can_, let me know when you finish your perfect game and I'll come play it. Until then, put up or shut up.

The lead dev of Warhammer Online told something similar to his customers followed by a "You just do not get how the game should be played". The case was that AoE hit harder than single target abilities.

Well, look up how well Warhammer Online did and what sweeping success it celebrates nowadays...

[Mudhutwarrior]

I used to post one of his publicity shots where he gives that arrogant self entitled smirk. It was purged immediately whenever I did and got to the point I got a three day ban for posting it. Funny thing its one of their own publicity shots.

It's the look you would see in a South Boston tavern and you would say to your bud's "that one is getting a chair over his head by the end of the night from someone."

A picture is worth a thousand words. I would post it but its lost on the the old system in the corner.


The Captain of the ship is responsible for hazarding a vessel. He bears the full brunt of everything wrong with this game.
It's his attitude that stopped me from spending one more red cent here. I come back every so often wondering is he finally figured out he should leave it to others to run and he can go yarn shopping at flea markets. Not yet it seems.

[Michal R]

Yey, they know better = BUY A MECH PACK ....

And shut up...

[Baulven]

Mister Blastman, on 30 April 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

Precisely!

When my beta readers tell me something is problematic--i.e. poor plot string, weak character, bad dialogue, is confusing, etc., I listen to them and thank them.

Now this is where it gets tricky--anyone who has created their own IP may be able to relate where I'm going with this. If one person brings up an issue and only one, then it might not be an issue at all but instead a style preference or perhaps their level of knowledge or they're accustomed to different genres. Sometimes, though, a single person issue might be a valuable suggestion and I've acted on those before when I thought they'd produce a neat result. If multiple folks bring up the same issue/suggestion/observation--well then we have a problem. And when that happens, I pay close attention. I then ask many follow-up questions to get to the bottom of what they're feeling.

Writing is actually a mystic art, believe it or not. Everyone watches shows or movies and some of those read, but actually knowing how to produce the content and how it all ties together is something entirely different. So when I get feedback from betas, it is essential I boil down to the root of the problem which often times they aren't able to express in their first observation. Sometimes they think they know what they're saying but they very well might not as they're blind to the overall scheme--these are the hard problems to solve, and I can only do it with their help. Other times the suggestions just jump out and scream--this sucks, fix it! The obvious ones I more than likely had thought about myself prior to the current draft but wasn't sure if it'd work or not so I included it to see what their reaction was. I may or may not have ideas already formed in my head how to tackle it but I start thinking about them right away.

In the end, the betas want to help me. In game development, the players want to help. But shunning the players and saying they don't know what they are talking about because they are players and not developers is not only counterproductive but also harmful to future player retention and acquisition. It's like slapping them in the face with a fish and shouting, "YOU SO STUPID!"



As a creator of IP, we must always humble ourselves and realize a couple of things...

a. We have a vision and know the overarching endgame
b. We have clients/fans/patrons who want to help us to succeed!
c. Our vision is often obscured by what we create as we know where it is going but that in no way makes us capable of assessing if it is effective or not due to our hidden knowledge.

point (b.) is the bridge between the first and the last. Without the fans, we might as well keep laboring in the dark and thinking, "Golly gee I've created the best thing ever!" But we'll never know, not until it is too late since we had a golden opportunity to listen and act and we ignored it.

This is what Russ' comment is like--ignoring us and that is a mistake. I hope he reconsiders, but alas, they may not. PGI has held their noses up for years now and typically don't do anything until the screams reach such a high fever pitch that the community is about to explode.

He needs to be interacting with us and seeking not only our feedback, but deep clarification to our problems to get to the root of the issue--and once he does this, he must do the most important thing of all... formulate a plan and act on it.

The problem with this is they didn't create an IP they butchered one with a cult like can base.

[nehebkau]

Alaric Hasek, on 29 April 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

Russ finally said it: the player base needs to stop thinking that it knows better than PGI how to develop this game. They don't. If you _can_, let me know when you finish your perfect game and I'll come play it. Until then, put up or shut up.

Interesting -- What he misses in his arrogance is that the people KNOW what they like and don't like and are willing to pay for what they like and willing to quit over what they don't like.

It would be like a pizza joint saying "You will eat the pizza we give you because we know what tastes good and if you don't like it go cook your own!" What happens in that situation is you go to a different pizza joint (High degree of substitution -- its a principle in economics) and get what you like. Video games are like pizza joints -- there are lots of them and if ONE isn't giving you what you like it is VERY easy to find another that will.

I admit it -- I am a whale and the waters are starting to get too salty for me in this game and part-in-parcel to that is PGI management's apparent dislike of their customer-base.

Edited by nehebkau, 05 July 2016 - 05:24 AM.