482 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 May 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

The irony is huge here though, because as people have stated multiple times in this thread they want their mech to survive walking out in the open. If you don't have to care about your positioning and pathing, how does that make the game deeper? Sure you have to worry about aiming mechanics, but suddenly positioning matters significantly less. There is always give and take, the question is how much of both do we want to matter. For me, positioning mattering more than aiming is what makes this game more tactical to me, and I would like to keep it that way as much as possible, and increasing TTK makes that less of a factor.

Were in huge *** battlemechs, we shouldnt be having to hide in trenches like infantry. I understand not presenting yourself to like 4 mechs vs your 1, but currently, you can barely show your mech at all. 1 mech is more then capable of destroying another mech in seconds. I once met a Stalker with my HBR, I was pretty much destroyed in 2 shots. That wasnt a matter of bad positioning, that was a matter of I decided to do more then sit behind a hill and camp. I made the mistake of moving out and trying to play the game. With TTK like it is, you can barely do anything but get 2 shot.

We have to be more campy, careful and cautious then we do when we play infantry shooters.

Increasing TTk by reducing the sustainable output per mech makes us have to worry less about dying in 2 1/2 seconds and more about teamwork, coordination, focus fire and actual tactics and strategy.

Mechs SHOULD take a good pounding. This game makes simply MOVING a stupid and idiotic thing to do. Its why we nascar and blob together. There is no such thing as a pair of medium mechs breaking off from the pack and flanking around. There is no such thing as an Atlas pushing a flank, using its armor and firepower to brush aside lighter mechs with its sheer tankiness.

Naw, MWO is just about finding the mech with the most high mounted E Hardpoints, packing as many guns as you can, binding them to 1 key and pressing a single button....then waiting until your heat bar is below 100% and repeating.

Bad placement and bad movement would be an Atlas all alone in a city. bad placement would be a Catapult with LRMs going into a city. Itwould be a high heat battlemech going into a desert. Bad Placement is not simply making the choice to move up and do more then sit.....Bad placement should not be breaking off from the pack to find a different way around and to show up on the flank.

I have tried that, all it gets me is 2 shot from some random *** light. I have also tried to break off from the pack and hold a hill top on a flank, it just gets me porked badly. Pretty much this game is "Camp beside the blob, poke and hope you dont get melted, repeat until one side is dead."

The "tactics" "strategy" and brain power of this game are very limited. Like ive said, its fire all the guns, move the mouse back and forth.

Tactics and strategy was when I was in Planetside 2. Taking a silenced LMG, high firepower, maxiumum stealth, sneaking my way out the back door of the base, showing up on a hill top 200m away and wiping out the snipers. Skill and tactics is flanking the enemy zerg and blowing up the spawn point. tactics and strategy is meeting a wave of tanks, and prepping a mine field back at the next post. Tactics and strategy do not really exist in this game....not to the extent they could.

Tactics and strategy in this game could be, if the system was better, would be Chain fire, cover fire movement. Forming a firing line with your LRM mechs, advancing with your heavies. Using team fire, 1 guy fires, while the other cools off. Stagger fire with your lance mates. but this game is blob, charge, alpha everything...repeat.

Bishop Steiner, on 03 May 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

Also, quite a few Solos actually have been very vocal about not dumbing the game down.... apparently there's some disconnect between what some people consider dumb. But only Comps of course can design dropdecks, plan ahead, use tactics, strategy, etc.

But when it's a ghost town with only the comps playing, I wonder how long the lights will stay on, when the new player/pleb experience is generally so negative, with the only solution offered being "git gud".

Typically the competitive view is use the meta, which is typically what ever system takes the least amount of brain power to win with, and repeat it. The Competitive players are the ones who run around Rocket noobing everyone in a shooter game, rather then trying to work as a team to win.

Ultimax, on 03 May 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

No, this game IS a thinking man's shooter.


People just don't want to man up and go find that content.

They expect to find it in the solo queue full on derp mode, uncoordinated team mates, players with builds that make no sense.

They want PGI to dumb the game down to where its easier to survive so they can have more time to think.

This game can be a thinking man's shooter, that's exactly what organized & team gameplay is here.

Ive watched a few 12 man videos. The extent of it is walk around in a blob and shoot everything wiht Alpha strikes. I dont see much brain power being involved.

This game lacks the heat management, ammo management, trigger discipline and all that. Its group fire all the things, walk around with a blob.

Ive also tried the "thinking mans" approach to this game. While the enemy is busy ******* around ina big blob in the north, I flank around to the south and show up on a flank, like I typically do in all games, big *** mech or not. Its almost always met with a 2-3 shot death.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 03 May 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[Coolant]

Can't wait until the new system is in place. So tired of seeing a couple of Large Pulse + Medium Lasers/Pulse. Can't wait to see how horrible those pilots are when they can't alpha for 50 every few seconds. Hopefully new system will help equalize DPS builds and make them at least as effective as high alpha builds.

Course the great equalizer is respawn. Bring on respawn.

Edited by Coolant, 03 May 2016 - 11:29 AM.

[Wintersdark]

I'm certainly in the camp of "family+job=no organised play", so I'm wholly solo.

And as an ultra casual pure solo player, I desperately wish this game would go full-on-mother&#%ing-sim."

It won't, and while I'm unhappy about it I understand it, but I'm still always going to push for depth vs. simplicity.

On the other hand, I constantly see comp/organised sorts argue in favour of ever simpler mechanics. It's not all comp players, of course.

Any argument that "the solos want simplistic quickplay moronic play" and "the comp crowd wants depth!" Is fundamentally broken because whether a player is a solo player or otherwise has no God damned bearing on what kind of game he wants.

People who want a simpler, shallower set of mechanics without simlike realism (scaling heat penalties, inaccuracy under strained but controllable circumstances, etc) can be any sort of player. All they have in common is that their opinion is stupid and wrong.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 May 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

I once met a Stalker with my HBR, I was pretty much destroyed in 2 shots. That wasnt a matter of bad positioning, that was a matter of I decided to do more then sit behind a hill and camp.

Actually it was bad positioning, since you shouldn't be dying in two shots to a Stalker (which doesn't really have a large or quick alpha) and you were taking on a mech that had 20 tons on you. Camping wouldn't have saved you, but flanking him would've, you know thinking besides hurr durr I should be able to take on this mech if I run at him despite him clearly having the advantage in that sort of engagement because he is an assault and I'm a heavy.

[Gas Guzzler]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 May 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

Were in huge *** battlemechs, we shouldnt be having to hide in trenches like infantry. I understand not presenting yourself to like 4 mechs vs your 1, but currently, you can barely show your mech at all. 1 mech is more then capable of destroying another mech in seconds. I once met a Stalker with my HBR, I was pretty much destroyed in 2 shots. That wasnt a matter of bad positioning, that was a matter of I decided to do more then sit behind a hill and camp. I made the mistake of moving out and trying to play the game. With TTK like it is, you can barely do anything but get 2 shot.

We have to be more campy, careful and cautious then we do when we play infantry shooters.

Increasing TTk by reducing the sustainable output per mech makes us have to worry less about dying in 2 1/2 seconds and more about teamwork, coordination, focus fire and actual tactics and strategy.

Mechs SHOULD take a good pounding. This game makes simply MOVING a stupid and idiotic thing to do. Its why we nascar and blob together. There is no such thing as a pair of medium mechs breaking off from the pack and flanking around. There is no such thing as an Atlas pushing a flank, using its armor and firepower to brush aside lighter mechs with its sheer tankiness.

Naw, MWO is just about finding the mech with the most high mounted E Hardpoints, packing as many guns as you can, binding them to 1 key and pressing a single button....then waiting until your heat bar is below 100% and repeating.

Bad placement and bad movement would be an Atlas all alone in a city. bad placement would be a Catapult with LRMs going into a city. Itwould be a high heat battlemech going into a desert. Bad Placement is not simply making the choice to move up and do more then sit.....Bad placement should not be breaking off from the pack to find a different way around and to show up on the flank.

I have tried that, all it gets me is 2 shot from some random *** light. I have also tried to break off from the pack and hold a hill top on a flank, it just gets me porked badly. Pretty much this game is "Camp beside the blob, poke and hope you dont get melted, repeat until one side is dead."

The "tactics" "strategy" and brain power of this game are very limited. Like ive said, its fire all the guns, move the mouse back and forth.

Tactics and strategy was when I was in Planetside 2. Taking a silenced LMG, high firepower, maxiumum stealth, sneaking my way out the back door of the base, showing up on a hill top 200m away and wiping out the snipers. Skill and tactics is flanking the enemy zerg and blowing up the spawn point. tactics and strategy is meeting a wave of tanks, and prepping a mine field back at the next post. Tactics and strategy do not really exist in this game....not to the extent they could.

Tactics and strategy in this game could be, if the system was better, would be Chain fire, cover fire movement. Forming a firing line with your LRM mechs, advancing with your heavies. Using team fire, 1 guy fires, while the other cools off. Stagger fire with your lance mates. but this game is blob, charge, alpha everything...repeat.



Typically the competitive view is use the meta, which is typically what ever system takes the least amount of brain power to win with, and repeat it. The Competitive players are the ones who run around Rocket noobing everyone in a shooter game, rather then trying to work as a team to win.



Ive watched a few 12 man videos. The extent of it is walk around in a blob and shoot everything wiht Alpha strikes. I dont see much brain power being involved.

This game lacks the heat management, ammo management, trigger discipline and all that. Its group fire all the things, walk around with a blob.

Ive also tried the "thinking mans" approach to this game. While the enemy is busy ******* around ina big blob in the north, I flank around to the south and show up on a flank, like I typically do in all games, big *** mech or not. Its almost always met with a 2-3 shot death.

Dude, you don't get it. I'm not sure if you ever will.

The strategy and thinking has to be done together with the team. You can't just flank willy nilly and expect other solo players do respond correctly.

Clearly trying to explain things to you is a waste of time.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 03 May 2016 - 11:36 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wintersdark, on 03 May 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

On the other hand, I constantly see comp/organised sorts argue in favour of ever simpler mechanics.

That may be because sometimes complexity != depth, they are not mutual in many cases. MW4 if balanced more appropriately had more depth despite having more simpler mechanics, because restrictions among other things opened the door for variety and better balance allowed for a deeper and more open meta.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 03 May 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

I'm certainly in the camp of "family+job=no organised play", so I'm wholly solo.

And as an ultra casual pure solo player, I desperately wish this game would go full-on-mother&#%ing-sim."

It won't, and while I'm unhappy about it I understand it, but I'm still always going to push for depth vs. simplicity.

On the other hand, I constantly see comp/organised sorts argue in favour of ever simpler mechanics. It's not all comp players, of course.

Any argument that "the solos want simplistic quickplay moronic play" and "the comp crowd wants depth!" Is fundamentally broken because whether a player is a solo player or otherwise has no God damned bearing on what kind of game he wants.

People who want a simpler, shallower set of mechanics without simlike realism (scaling heat penalties, inaccuracy under strained but controllable circumstances, etc) can be any sort of player. All they have in common is that their opinion is stupid and wrong.

gitgud, bruh

[Gas Guzzler]

Wintersdark, on 03 May 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

I'm certainly in the camp of "family+job=no organised play", so I'm wholly solo.

And as an ultra casual pure solo player, I desperately wish this game would go full-on-mother&#%ing-sim."

It won't, and while I'm unhappy about it I understand it, but I'm still always going to push for depth vs. simplicity.

On the other hand, I constantly see comp/organised sorts argue in favour of ever simpler mechanics. It's not all comp players, of course.

Any argument that "the solos want simplistic quickplay moronic play" and "the comp crowd wants depth!" Is fundamentally broken because whether a player is a solo player or otherwise has no God damned bearing on what kind of game he wants.

People who want a simpler, shallower set of mechanics without simlike realism (scaling heat penalties, inaccuracy under strained but controllable circumstances, etc) can be any sort of player. All they have in common is that their opinion is stupid and wrong.

Opinions can't be wrong though..

And yeah, I get not having time for anything but solo play, that's cool. But everyone always says there's no depth, and yeah in the solo queue its hard to have depth, because there is no team synergy and many times people aren't willing to work together.

I was spectating an Atlas who decided to primary a Centurion instead of the Dakka Dire standing right next to it, I called to focus the Dire, and he didn't so I said it again, and his response was "Don't tell me what to do!". It's like, come on man. Talk about thinking.. if people can't deduce that the Dire is the greater threat and should be focused down first... that's like rudimentary level thinking.

I don't get how "Power Draw" is going to add depth to the solo queue. Honestly, for a single player PvE type thing, I would LOVE to have all the sim mechanics you could think of. That would be awesome. But this game is a team based PvP. There is a multitude of depth based on the team play aspect alone that you aren't tapping into by sticking to the solo queue.

Honestly, you don't need a huge time commitment to play in a group. If you don't want to find a team to join to drop with the same people all the time, you can drop with us whenever you feel like.

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 May 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

I was spectating an Atlas who decided to primary a Centurion instead of the Dakka Dire standing right next to it, I called to focus the Dire, and he didn't so I said it again, and his response was "Don't tell me what to do!". It's like, come on man. Talk about thinking.. if people can't deduce that the Dire is the greater threat and should be focused down first... that's like rudimentary level thinking.

No, no, no.

When face to face with an Urbie and Direwolf, which do you attack first? Urbie, especially if the Urbie has 4 MGs... because your back is too damn vulnerable for that sneak attack.

If everything was equal and you needed to target something first, always go Urbie. It's just too damn OP to ignore.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 May 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Actually it was bad positioning, since you shouldn't be dying in two shots to a Stalker (which doesn't really have a large or quick alpha) and you were taking on a mech that had 20 tons on you. Camping wouldn't have saved you, but flanking him would've, you know thinking besides hurr durr I should be able to take on this mech if I run at him despite him clearly having the advantage in that sort of engagement because he is an assault and I'm a heavy.

Umm, no, it was a CW game, I had my team beside me. I poked out to take a shot. As for flanking, yeah, not with as fast as mechs turn in this game, and we are in huge *** battlemechs, not exactly hard to hit targets. Then with PPFLD+huge *** targets from fairly close range, flanking? Not when hes looking right at me.

His first shot took off my main gun torso, his next shot took off w/e armor I had, the 3rd dropped me dead. I twisted, but yeah, he pretty much melted the entire mech in seconds. No amount of twisting was going to save that.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 03 May 2016 - 12:29 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 May 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

I don't get how "Power Draw" is going to add depth to the solo queue. Honestly, for a single player PvE type thing, I would LOVE to have all the sim mechanics you could think of. That would be awesome. But this game is a team based PvP. There is a multitude of depth based on the team play aspect alone that you aren't tapping into by sticking to the solo queue.

Why dont you want all the sim related things for PVP? That would really bring out the skilled and non skilled players.

[Felicitatem Parco]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 May 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Umm, no, it was a CW game, I had my team beside me. I poked out to take a shot. As for flanking, yeah, not with as fast as mechs turn in this game, and we are in huge *** battlemechs, not exactly hard to hit targets. Then with PPFLD+huge *** targets from fairly close range, flanking? Not when hes looking right at me.

His first shot took off my main gun torso, his next shot took off w/e armor I had, the 3rd dropped me dead. I twisted, but yeah, he pretty much melted the entire mech in seconds. No amount of twisting was going to save that.

If his first shot took off your right torso, then your follow-up with 6 ERML would have hurt him (stripped 42 pts of armor off a side torso) while you retreated under your ECM. Why did he get 2 shots off if all you did was poke for a second?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 03 May 2016 - 12:34 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 May 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Umm, no, it was a CW game, I had my team beside me.

First, if you poked out to take one shot, you shouldn't have been hit 3 times by the same target.
Second, if you were poking multiple times, and getting hit each time, you were making bad pokes, so again, it was your positioning and play that cost you. Poking in the same position every time is how you die really quick especially if the enemy had your number the first time.
Third, this doesn't mean anything, I've seen the quality of players in CW, having teammates beside you means nothing if they aren't shooting (which is often in CW). He should've melted faster than you if you had teammates beside you.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 May 2016 - 01:47 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 May 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

Why dont you want all the sim related things for PVP? That would really bring out the skilled and non skilled players.

No it wouldn't. Skill in this game is all about positioning and teamwork anyway. I would rather focus on that. I'm not sure which sim aspect you are referring to, either, but this thread being about power draw, all that would do is make the meta less diverse.

[Gas Guzzler]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 May 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Umm, no, it was a CW game, I had my team beside me. I poked out to take a shot. As for flanking, yeah, not with as fast as mechs turn in this game, and we are in huge *** battlemechs, not exactly hard to hit targets. Then with PPFLD+huge *** targets from fairly close range, flanking? Not when hes looking right at me.

His first shot took off my main gun torso, his next shot took off w/e armor I had, the 3rd dropped me dead. I twisted, but yeah, he pretty much melted the entire mech in seconds. No amount of twisting was going to save that.

How did he get three shots off on you? It's like, if you lose the first trade, why would you try again, let alone a 3rd time?

This is where the thinking man's shooter needs to come in to play. "I lost that trade, better look for a better flank.."

[Karl Streiger]

Deathlike, on 03 May 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

No, no, no.

When face to face with an Urbie and Direwolf, which do you attack first? Urbie, especially if the Urbie has 4 MGs... because your back is too damn vulnerable for that sneak attack.

If everything was equal and you needed to target something first, always go Urbie. It's just too damn OP to ignore.

Its in the lore - when you have a damaged Hatchetman and right in front of you is a overheated Shrike - of course you attack the motorcycle.

Just to make something more clear.
All takling about huge LPL /MPL Alpha Meta - is there limit what should be possible and what should not?
My Zeu-6S runs 3 ER Large Laser and 3 Medium Laser - not a huge alpha nor does it create enough DPS to be of worth -and it is a complete different playstyle but its hardly simpler than my Whammy with 2 PPC or 2 AC 5s - or is this Meta - hm what about my AS7-S...(brawl meta srm meta) - hm.....what is ok and what is not in most cases just personal opinion.


In the end its just the number of hard points. Don't matter the system you create - the more the better. And when you can't fire 3 Energy Weapons of the same type you don't need those three Energy HPs.
This is the fundamental flaw of MWO - they were at no time able to create a system that would turn the AWS-8Q into a Mech that makes sense - usually you live better in replacing the 3rd PPC with MOAR Medium Laser (btw my build in Closed Beta)
A decent heat system would have allowed the 3 PPC stock AWS to have much better burst damage over a short time in comparison with the 2 PPC just Heatsinks AWS

Edited by Karl Streiger, 03 May 2016 - 01:27 PM.

[Sjorpha]

arivio, on 03 May 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

Thats for sure, so every baddie can feel like Admiral Awsome, when he walks with a 43kp/h Loreatlas into the Battle.

Actually, increasing time to kill is not a good thing for newbies/baddies in terms of them being able to perform better.

The opposite is true, the more you increase TTK the larger the gaps between skilled and unskilled players will be, and the harder the baddies will be stomped.

It's unintuitive, but it's simple math. The better a player is the better he focuses fire and avoids damage, that means that a better player will get exponentially more out of the increased durability than a bad player will, and with teamwork this effect is multiplied.

So let's say the durability is doubled, a good player who now has an effective TTK (under fire) of let's say 60 seconds will increase that to 120 seconds. A bad player who dies in 10 seconds will now dies in 20 seconds.

Congratulations, you just gave the good player a full minute more of killing time under fire and the newbie 10 seconds more in which to feel slightly less instagibbed. Where the good player could previously solo 2 poor players he will now be able to solo 3 or more.

High TTK is not a friend of bad play, that's an illusion. More time in which to make bad decisions won't make them less bad and you'll only lose harder because in that same time the good players make two good decisions for every extra bad one you now had time for.

For every extra mistake you can now afford to make the good player can now afford three or more, and you will no longer have a chance to capitalize and get the odd kill against him because now he can take those hits and come back at you with all the skill advantage and weapons intact.

I like high TTK, but that also means liking very harsh effects of skill gaps and very strong snowballing effect and accepting stomps being a part of the game. Those are the true effects of high TTK.

[Wintersdark]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 May 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

Opinions can't be wrong though..

They can be, if objective. In my opinion, 2+2=5. That may be my opinion, but it is wrong (and stupid). There's this wierd protection of opinions in today's society, and that shouldn't be the case. People are entitled to have their opinions, but not protected from people calling out those opinions for being stupid and/or wrong. With that said, that last part was meant as a joke.

Quote

And yeah, I get not having time for anything but solo play, that's cool. But everyone always says there's no depth, and yeah in the solo queue its hard to have depth, because there is no team synergy and many times people aren't willing to work together.

Truth. With that said, I find a lot of fulfillment making that sort of depth in the solo queue, by being (if I may say so myself) extremely good at working with random people, and getting a well positive wlr as a result. I guess you make your own depth

Quote

I was spectating an Atlas who decided to primary a Centurion instead of the Dakka Dire standing right next to it, I called to focus the Dire, and he didn't so I said it again, and his response was "Don't tell me what to do!". It's like, come on man. Talk about thinking.. if people can't deduce that the Dire is the greater threat and should be focused down first... that's like rudimentary level thinking.

Thankfully, I don't encounter the "don't tell me what to do" folks often. I do wish for people who will call targets and whatnot though (people who aren't me; I'm a follow orders guy, not a leader) because even bad focus fire beats "lol look at me blowing up this car!"

Quote

I don't get how "Power Draw" is going to add depth to the solo queue. Honestly, for a single player PvE type thing, I would LOVE to have all the sim mechanics you could think of. That would be awesome. But this game is a team based PvP. There is a multitude of depth based on the team play aspect alone that you aren't tapping into by sticking to the solo queue.

A different kind of depth, though; I think this is the disconnect. One is not a substitute for another.

Now, I don't know what the details of the power draw system are, so I can't comment on that, but I'm hoping for something that makes choosing what to fire when a choice, rather than a given. I see the need for a ghost heat system, but I loathe ghost heat with an unbridled passion. I realise these seem contradictory, but it's a "devil in the details" issue. I just hate ghost heat and want to try something else.

Quote

Honestly, you don't need a huge time commitment to play in a group. If you don't want to find a team to join to drop with the same people all the time, you can drop with us whenever you feel like.

It's not a problem with the amount of time nearly as much as when the time is. I do rotating shift work, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, with my hours shifting weekly (both time and length of shifts changing, 8, 10, 12 hour shifts, 40-60 hours a week), then add two very young children and a wife, what happens s is that this week I can play evenings, next week I can play at 4am, for two weeks after that I can't play at all. The end result is, even if I do play fairly frequently, I'll appear EXTREMELY inactive due to wholly random playtimes.

Makes any kind of group activities extremely difficult

[Karl Streiger]

BTW - TTK is ok
had this moment 30min ago - was hunting a ebon jaguar....with my Zeus
When i moved in to line up my shots I got tunnel vision....i didn't saw the DireWolf - didn't saw the other Mechs must have been a heavy and an Medium - but while they pumped damage into my Zeus as fast as they could - i survived the onslaught -long enough to fire two shots (4sec recharge into the Ebon Jag before disengaging - only a leg and my LT were stripped of armor...if TTK would have been as bad as people say i should have been dead.

i moved the long way - and went in one vs one with the Dire (ok I had friends - and the Dire was alone - and he died as all Assaults die that are alone - its not the short TTK or the long TTK that is killing them/us our mistakes are killing us

Edited by Karl Streiger, 03 May 2016 - 01:45 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 May 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

Every so often you get people making threads about LRMs being OP. Do you think these are educated opinions?

More like "OMG standing in this solo queue match everybody has lurms, if I step out I get torn up by missiles, they must be overpowered". We all know this is false though.


There were a few matches in the solo queue that had more LRM boats than laser boats this weekend. Totally means LRMs OP right?

Just because LRMs score high doesn't make them OP but there's a distinct difference between wub/lasers and everything else as far as making a difference. Lasers are easy to do well with.

LRMs are trash tier, btw, but that's obvious, so why even bring it up?

When one weapon system becomes super easy to do well in versus others, it is worth looking into. I see what you're saying but laser loving folks sound no different than the PPC/Gauss folks before their tech was brutalized.

Is the solution nerfing one and buffing another?

NO

That's what we keep doing and it is a merry-go-round--which... as you know, they go nowhere.

The core mechanics must be fixed. My adaptive armor system is a start.

Ultimax, on 03 May 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

You think lasers don't suffer from hitreg issues?

Everything suffers from hitreg issues. It is more noticeable, however, in high-heat, low volume weapons like PPCs because you get less shots before you have to stop firing.