321 replies to this topic

[Alan Davion]

BattleBunny, on 08 May 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

1 vs 1 the time to kill is spot on.

Anything else is just good teamwork. teamwork OP. Pls dont nerf though. I like teamwork.

No one is saying teamwork is the problem. People should be working together to win.

It's the core game mechanics that are literally still broken since day 1 that are at fault here.

[LordBraxton]

I left MWO because the TTK became way too fast.

Its certainly a matter of taste, but MWO feels like a clunky-yet-generic shooter with the TTK in its current place.

Super slow TTK is what made CB MWO so intense and tactical.

Slow TTK means maneuver\positioning are more important

Fast TTK means aim\reflexes are more important

I prefer footwork.

[smokefield]

ok..tokk me half an hour to find someone who gets it :

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1v1 fight is the only way to determine TTK.

!!!!!!!!!

1vs more mechs lowers ttk ? then dont go 1 vs many. that means team play. share armour. work togheter. put your hurt mechs behind.

twisting is not helping cause you leg me ? well try it next time we meet. personally i am running 80% + armour always on legs. never less than 60 if the mechs has. that means i never have legs weaker than CT. so beeing legged to death is not happening that often...especialy when i can shoot too ..

in that screen with 4sp i was the spearhead. i got 4 mechs head on and just went through them. yes because 4sp can take it. but they were 4 mechs. so if a mech can withstand a 4mechs concentrated fire and still live after 3 min then ttk its fine.

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Balancing around 1v1 scenarios is kind of not going to work.

its exactly where it needs to be balanced. everything else means team play and strategy.

imagine that you will balance it for 1vs6 confrontations (i didnt even say 12). and you will increase it. triple it. how that will work when it will be a 4vs4 one ? that will be artificially inflated ttk and will not work.

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Even in a 1 vs 1 I believe TTK is a little to fast. I mean most mechs take what... 20-30 seconds to die in a 1 vs 1?

what lol ? maybe if you face tank someone straight ahead.

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Your example that "proves" TTK is fine is proof of nothing. Yes, TTK in 1 vs. 1 is fine. People do not play 1 vs. 1 in actual games - teams don't split up into private little duels.

where this is where team play and strategy comes to place. and i very much prefer to keep it that way instead of artificially increasing ttk and encourage bad play.

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Smokefield, take notice of these posts I quoted. These guys get the problem. Particularly Lykaon, if someone is doing good with torso twisting, I'll do the same. Take out their legs. Once they're gimped and I can out maneuver them, I simply take out their other leg.

TTK for legging is roughly equal to taking out a Clan mech via the STs. And while you might be right that 1v1 TTK might be fine... How often do you end up in a 1v1 match these days during Quick Play? Not very often I'll imagine.

again. the only way to measure ttk is 1v1. for everything else the team play and strategy comes to play. you cannot measure ttk in team play and balance it after that. thats stupid. no offence. try to scale it down after and understand why...

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1 vs 1 the time to kill is spot on.

Anything else is just good teamwork. teamwork OP. Pls dont nerf though. I like teamwork.

this !!!!

i know it will sound like a broken record...but ppl complaining about ttk beeing low need to learn to fight in a mech. simple as that. and i mean no offence. everyone started somewhere. and first step is adminting you have much to learn.

[Gas Guzzler]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 May 2016 - 05:57 AM, said:

Actually those 2 pics show that you met enemies who cannot aim well.

And when ppl do not aim well, ttk seems long enough

Torso twisting does not care how well people aim.

[Gas Guzzler]

LordBraxton, on 08 May 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Super slow TTK is what made CB MWO so intense and tactical.

Slow TTK means maneuver\positioning are more important

Fast TTK means aim\reflexes are more important

I prefer footwork.

Funny that you say that. Positioning is the most important thing in this game as it is now. More important than reflexes and twitch aiming.

[Cy Mitchell]

I strongly disagree with the OP. I often watch streams of the league games and some of the high level teams playing FW. These teams are made up of very good players. They use team tactics, cover and (gasp) torso twisting to the max. Most of their games last less than 5 minutes. An entire FW match is often over with in less than 15. These are not Unit vs PUG. These are top teams.

That is certainly a far cry from the "several hours" that the OP is citing as a potential problem. TTK could be doubled and still would not be anywhere near the hyperbole he is suggesting. Torso twisting and spreading damage may increase TTK but it is still ridiculously short.


As someone else said MWO has become a clunkier version of the generic FPS. The only thing it is missing is the respawn ad naseum that makes up the other shooters. It has strayed far from a Mech Sim. It is not even a good FPS compared to what else is out there. It is however the only current Mech game,

The TTK needs to be increased at least twofold.

[Alan Davion]

smokefield, on 08 May 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

ok..tokk me half an hour to find someone who gets it :

1. 1vs more mechs lowers ttk ? then dont go 1 vs many. that means team play. share armour. work togheter. put your hurt mechs behind.

2. twisting is not helping cause you leg me ? well try it next time we meet. personally i am running 80% + armour always on legs. never less than 60 if the mechs has. that means i never have legs weaker than CT. so beeing legged to death is not happening that often...especialy when i can shoot too ..

3. in that screen with 4sp i was the spearhead. i got 4 mechs head on and just went through them. yes because 4sp can take it. but they were 4 mechs. so if a mech can withstand a 4mechs concentrated fire and still live after 3 min then ttk its fine.

4. its exactly where it needs to be balanced. everything else means team play and strategy.

5. imagine that you will balance it for 1vs6 confrontations (i didnt even say 12). and you will increase it. triple it. how that will work when it will be a 4vs4 one ? that will be artificially inflated ttk and will not work.

6. what lol ? maybe if you face tank someone straight ahead.

7. where this is where team play and strategy comes to place. and i very much prefer to keep it that way instead of artificially increasing ttk and encourage bad play.

8. again. the only way to measure ttk is 1v1. for everything else the team play and strategy comes to play. you cannot measure ttk in team play and balance it after that. thats stupid. no offence. try to scale it down after and understand why...

9. i know it will sound like a broken record...but ppl complaining about ttk beeing low need to learn to fight in a mech. simple as that. and i mean no offence. everyone started somewhere. and first step is adminting you have much to learn.

Okay, let's try and condense this all down. Points 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8... Until PGI finally gets around to adding Solaris, the game will not be 1v1, and you will never, and I mean NEVER have a 1v1 situation in Quick Play or Faction Play. So claiming you need to balance around 1v1 is quite possibly the most idiotic thing I've heard on these forums to date.

Now, let's focus on point 3 for a moment. What mechs did you miraculously wade through? I'm assuming for the moment they were lights until you say otherwise. You also admit that the 4SP can take a lot of punishment... That does little to help your argument if your mech can take more punishment than the 4 mechs you walked through in your statement are able to dish out, which makes me think even more that you happened to catch a lance of light mechs.

Now, points 2 and 9... It doesn't take a genius to figure out how the game works. Provide an example of a mech you run with the armor numbers, and I'm sure someone here could provide an example of a mech that could take off your leg in one or two shots.

One or two alpha strikes is all it takes in the right mech, so again, you're doing nothing to prove your argument about TTK being fine as it is.

[PhoenixFire55]

Oh, just friggin whatever really. All I hear is "whaa whaa whaa, I stood still and got instagibbed, whaa whaa whaa". Better yet, "I rushed half the enemy team all by my awesome self and got blown to bits in an instant, whaa whaa nerf".

You are saying that what we have now shouldn't be. Tell me then what should be? One mech running around an entire team for minutes before it dies? TTK was always low in TT even with random component hits. TTK was just as low in other MW games.

YOU choose to play MWO as a peek-a-boo alpha strike game, and the typical cowardace of your team is the reason for that. Thus YOU allow high-alpha-low-DPS builds to be dominant. When an entire team loads SRMs and LBXs and charges together all your typical vomit builds have zero chance to win.

I've said it many times already. When all 12 mechs are firing at one enemy mech they'll insta-kill it even if each have exactly one weapon. Should we allow one weapon per mech only to lower your precious TTK? Better yet, get rid of all weapons except for MGs and flamers. That'll be fun for sure and a much better game.

PGI understands nothing about their own game. That's why we have 60 heat capacity for all mechs that doesn't depend on anything. Ret@rded quirks that you people asked for that reduce laser duration and increase pinpoint even further only proves that. But please, keep blaming mythical "twitch shooter meta smb".

[STEF_]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 May 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Torso twisting does not care how well people aim.

U cannot torso twist from every angle.
Teamwork focusing fire OP.

[Gas Guzzler]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 May 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

U cannot torso twist from every angle.
Teamwork focusing fire OP.

Sounds like a positioning mistake if you are getting focus fired and shot from every angle. That's literally the point of positioning and why it is so important..

[dervishx5]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 May 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

Sounds like a positioning mistake if you are getting focus fired and shot from every angle. That's literally the point of positioning and why it is so important..

Shh! No! Don't tell them that! The more watered down MS is the better.

Edited by dervishx5, 08 May 2016 - 10:43 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Rampage, on 08 May 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

I strongly disagree with the OP. I often watch streams of the league games and some of the high level teams playing FW. These teams are made up of very good players. They use team tactics, cover and (gasp) torso twisting to the max. Most of their games last less than 5 minutes. An entire FW match is often over with in less than 15. These are not Unit vs PUG. These are top teams.

That is certainly a far cry from the "several hours" that the OP is citing as a potential problem. TTK could be doubled and still would not be anywhere near the hyperbole he is suggesting. Torso twisting and spreading damage may increase TTK but it is still ridiculously short.


As someone else said MWO has become a clunkier version of the generic FPS. The only thing it is missing is the respawn ad naseum that makes up the other shooters. It has strayed far from a Mech Sim. It is not even a good FPS compared to what else is out there. It is however the only current Mech game,

The TTK needs to be increased at least twofold.

The EmP vs SJR MRBC match that was on Thursday is a better example than some "top teams" in CW. Go watch it.

[smokefield]

alan you are one of those people who like to dissect a post just truing to be right and miss entirely the idea behind it. you will never listen to an argument and never admit you can be wrong. going in a debate with you its useless so i am not gonna do that. you are right. now be happy

[STEF_]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 May 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

Sounds like a positioning mistake if you are getting focus fired and shot from every angle. That's literally the point of positioning and why it is so important..

oh, well this means you position every mech of the team in the same spot.

ok

[Alan Davion]

smokefield, on 08 May 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

alan you are one of those people who like to dissect a post just truing to be right and miss entirely the idea behind it. you will never listen to an argument and never admit you can be wrong. going in a debate with you its useless so i am not gonna do that. you are right. now be happy

It's called a debate for a reason. One side presents their argument over whatever subject is being discussed, then the other side presents a counter argument. It requires a back and forth until an agreement can be reached.

Yes I like to dissect a persons post, because it makes it easier to present another point of view on the subject. I'm more than willing to listen, but its incumbent on the party that started everything to be willing to follow through on that.

Such as your comment about your HBK-4SP. You waded through 4 opposing mechs in one of the, if not the most tanky medium mech in the game, great. What mechs were they? That's all I was trying to get at.

[dervishx5]

Alan Davion, on 08 May 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

It's called a debate for a reason. One side presents their argument over whatever subject is being discussed, then the other side presents a counter argument. It requires a back and forth until an agreement can be reached.

Yes I like to dissect a persons post, because it makes it easier to present another point of view on the subject. I'm more than willing to listen, but its incumbent on the party that started everything to be willing to follow through on that.

Such as your comment about your HBK-4SP. You waded through 4 opposing mechs in one of the, if not the most tanky medium mech in the game, great. What mechs were they? That's all I was trying to get at.

Its considered poor forum etiquette to break down a post sentence by sentence. Also makes it seem like you can't organize your thoughts into a comprehensive argument.

[Alan Davion]

dervishx5, on 08 May 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Its considered poor forum etiquette to break down a post sentence by sentence. Also makes it seem like you can't organize your thoughts into a comprehensive argument.

It's a little thing about humans... No one thinks the same way as everyone else. We'd all be bloody robots if it were true.

If the way I think is poor forum etiquette, so be it. That's the way my mind works, and I can't change that.

[Coolant]

smokefield, on 08 May 2016 - 03:20 AM, said:

For those who die too fast - TTK can be doubled if you learn to twist well...tripled if you learn to twist and spread the damage.

Doesn't work when your build is DPS...only works with alphas. So we know what kind of build you have. DPS requires you to keep your reticule on the target. Think outside the box and stop being selfish and contributing to the problem. If you use a high alpha you are more to blame for the condition of the game.

[dervishx5]

Alan Davion, on 08 May 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

It's a little thing about humans... No one thinks the same way as everyone else. We'd all be bloody robots if it were true.

If the way I think is poor forum etiquette, so be it. That's the way my mind works, and I can't change that.

[Gas Guzzler]

Coolant, on 08 May 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

Doesn't work when your build is DPS...only works with alphas. So we know what kind of build you have. DPS requires you to keep your reticule on the target. Think outside the box and stop being selfish and contributing to the problem. If you use a high alpha you are more to blame for the condition of the game.

DPS builds work by not getting attention right away. You DPS until you start getting aggro then you twist to spread damage. If DPS builds were allowed to just fire continuously while taking only minimal damage, they would be OP. The downside to DPS builds is having to stare. The upside is having cool running high damage output. You have to position yourself appropriately. That's why the Dakka Mauler, dakka Black Widow, and Dakka Dire are so good. Same with the JM6-DD and several others.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 May 2016 - 11:41 AM.