Lykaon, on 08 May 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:
The difference in opinion is based on what the overall expectation of the game is.
If you want a run and gun shooter like the hundreds of others like Call of Duty etc then sure TTK is fine if not a bit long.
If however your expectation is a tactical battle simulation where possition and manuver matter as you attempt to achieve objectives to score a victory then TTK is way to short.
Seeing how the vast majority of players seem to prefer Skirmish on the smallest coldest map I would say we are pretty much stuck with Call of Duty with robots for the foreseeable future.
So at this point they should just bite the bullet and make every map the size of the middle ring of HPG manifold add respawns and power ups and call it a day...it seems like what most players actually want even if they won't admit it. At least it's how they vote when we vote a mode and map.
I however will go find something more engaging to do with my gaming time.
P.S. whenever I run across a pilot that actually knows how to torso twist I just take the legs off you can not twist those. How long would you last then? one third as long ? half? maybe a quarter if the leg armor is stripped? Many mechs also have armor points located below the twist point of the pelvis that does not rotate with the torso yet counts as front torso armor. Twist all you like it won't matter.
Lord0fHats, on 08 May 2016 - 05:13 AM, said:
Yes. In 1v1 it can be a little long because torso twisting OP (legs), but games have 12 people per team. Balancing around 1v1 scenarios is kind of not going to work.
The speed at which coordinated fire can bring a mech down is very fast. People however seem to ignore how this encourages team play. Concentrating firepower to bring down targets quickly makes tactics and team work important. The trend I've seen is that once you're down 1, it becomes an uphill battle. Once you're down 2, it becomes a very frustrating battle. Once you're down 3, start praying. If you've ever played SJR or EMP, you can get a pretty good look at how quickly a game can go south as the opposing team just steam rolls through you blowing mechs down one by one.
Whether this is an issue with TTK, or simply horribly mismatched teams allowing high end comp groups to just beat down their competition though... MWO has a very big disparity between "the pugs", the "try hards", and the "leet" players in its community.
Nightshade24, on 08 May 2016 - 05:16 AM, said:
Even in a 1 vs 1 I believe TTK is a little to fast. I mean most mechs take what... 20-30 seconds to die in a 1 vs 1?
For 2 of the largest war machines of battletech to fight each other slugging shells at each others firing missiles and lasers. Gods of war...
I expect an epic battle to last more then a few dozen seconds.
I am in a battlemech.
Not some infantry who will die to a phew shots in a course of a few seconds.
Battlemechs were made to break through the lines and hold. not to hump the side of a rock or hill for a few minute lobbing a gauss or large laser shot because you are to scared that 5 seconds+ exposed will kill you due to the current TTK. It's why people hate maps like Polar highlands.
if TTK was slower like in earlier games you will not have a single problem with the map even if the trenches would be removed.
But of course, there can be acceptions- the TTK is also the same reason a light mech can win a fight against an assault, Otherwise it'll take minutes for say a jenner to kill an atlas.
TBH the 8 vs 8 days had better TTK due to the fact that instead of 12 mechs shooting at you at the early parts of the game it was only 8 people and you can take fights into a more isolated area and flanking was more useful.
Conflicting situation here. I am surprised that throwing the TTK out of the norm from earlier MW games actually worked a lot more better in weight class balance but hurts the overall quality of the match.... arguably that is. I do not see 2 gauss rifle 4 PPC 1 large laser 0 armour assaults jumping behind sky scrapers 1 shot killing everything like in MW4...
oldradagast, on 08 May 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:
Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't give everyone the right to simply bash people who disagree with you as "not know what they are talking about." as you did. Not a convincing way to start a discussion, if that was your intent.
Your example that "proves" TTK is fine is proof of nothing. Yes, TTK in 1 vs. 1 is fine. People do not play 1 vs. 1 in actual games - teams don't split up into private little duels.
If TTK was fine, people wouldn't spend so much of this game hiding behind rocks, poking out to precision alpha, and then scurry back behind a rock. Maybe you're cool with that since "it's not tabletop," but many people see the problem for what it is and are looking for a solution.
Nobody said the game should be "Rambo Warrior Online," where mechs are nearly unkillable, but the current TTK is too low as evidenced by both the reaction of new players, the ease with which mechs get cored out and killed (nothing like tabletop, which is, IMHO, a bad thing), and the hide-behind-a-rock meta. Too often, the game feels like CoD with mech skins, not Mechwarrior or Battletech.
Smokefield, take notice of these posts I quoted. These guys get the problem. Particularly Lykaon, if someone is doing good with torso twisting, I'll do the same. Take out their legs. Once they're gimped and I can out maneuver them, I simply take out their other leg.
TTK for legging is roughly equal to taking out a Clan mech via the STs. And while you might be right that 1v1 TTK might be fine... How often do you end up in a 1v1 match these days during Quick Play? Not very often I'll imagine.
The one 1v1 I can remember recently was just after the Warhammer or Rifleman came out. I was on Canyon Network on Assault. I'd worked my way around the outside of the map to hit the enemy base. Managed to cause a Timby to pull back from the lines and come after me.
I backed up behind one part of the canyons, goaded him into following me, shooting him occasionally. Drew him into a full-on brawl where he kept overheating, especially once I blew off his LT. That slowed him down and kept him hot enough that I was able to blow off his RT as well.
When all was said and done my CT was orange, and he was dead.
His teammates showed up shortly thereafter and finished me off.
9 times out of 10 these days, you will not be in a 1v1, it will be 2v1 at the lowest. And focused fire from 2 or more mechs sends TTK through the bloody floor.
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