68 replies to this topic

[Ovion]

This was originally (and one day, hopefully will be) part of a full fledged Locust Theory document.

However, this is a collection of info on how to build a Locust, the basics of Locust theory and effective builds for the mech.

This document will be updated, and feel free to ask for Locust advice and suggest new builds for the list.

These are the Stock Locusts:

Spoiler

Stock LCT-1E
Stock LCT-1M
Stock LCT-1V
Stock LCT-3M
Stock LCT-3S
Stock LCT-3V
Stock PIRATES' BANE

This is what they look like when you get them.
Bar the Pirate's Bane, outside of Stock Matches, it's all pretty bad.

What you want instead, is to craft the following 'blank slates' for each of your Locusts.
Base Locusts (Armour, Engine):

Spoiler

Base LCT-1E
Base LCT-1M
Base LCT-1V
Base LCT-3M
Base LCT-3S
Base LCT-3V
Base PIRATES' BANE
- Base PIRATES' BANE w/ ECM
- Alt Base 0/0/0 PIRATES' BANE
- Alt Base 0/0/0 w/ ECM PIRATES' BANE

Locust Armour Theory is slightly counter intuitive, and more than a little scary to look at on paper, but hopefully it will all become clear as you read the following.

The goal here is pure optimisation.
With how small the Locust is, and how light, you can't put enough Armour anywhere to properly shrug of anything, and you're quite reliant on speed.

Spoiler

So the goal here is to place the biggest Engine possible (a 190), without sacrificing too much Weight (an XL), maximising Weight savings (Endo-Steel Structure and Ferro Fibrous Armour), and carefully arranging your Armour to best effect.
(The exception to Ferro Fibrous Armour being the Pirates' Bane, which has no need of it.)

As a Locust you have incredibly small hit boxes on the Head and Arms - you can happily strip most of the Armour from these locations.
You don't have the Armour to take a hit if you 'balance' it, so you need to focus it, and use your large torso twist range to compensate.

By front loading the Armour, there at least you have the Armour of a 'mech 10-20T heavier.
The means your Rear Armour suffers - only the minimum 2/3/2 Armour required to take the occasional Laser hit, otherwise you'll be relying on the Front Armour, Torso Twist, outright speed and the map / cover.

Yes, the head only has 1 Armour, but you'll basically never be hit by more than the occasional rake of the Laser - you have 15HP plus that 1 Armour to survive any light brushes.
Anything heavier would probably take off a Torso anyway, and is far more likely to hit said Torso, so getting hit in the head is a minor worry.

The Arms are also small, and not prone to being destroyed before you lose a Torso and die anyway, this combined with the Armour and Structure quirks found on the 'mech gives you sufficient part health to get by.
With 5 Armour an Arm (which results in 7.5 for most Locusts, 9 for the 3V), and 5HP, that gives you 12.5 (and 14 for the 3V) health each arm - enough to survive a solid hit from most single weapons, but again, anything bigger, would destroy a Torso anyway, and is more likely to hit said Torso anyway.

With all of this, as above, you get 7 Tons and 8 Slots free (14 with SHS).
This allows for some reasonable loadouts to go with your 170kph.

You do have two alternatives for Armour distribution (using the 1E as an example):
Base - Extra Armour
For some, the low armour goes too far against the grain, or their playstyle takes more risks, and they take more damage to the arms / head - for the cost of 1/2 ton, you can max the armour on the arms, and bring the head armour up to 5pts.

There's also Base - Extra Armour, Balanced
While technically an option, it's a really bad idea - your largest Hit Boxes, your Torsos are no longer properly protected from any direction - just enough armour to survive something, but nothing significant anywhere.

Additionally, if absolutely necessary, you can reduce the Engine Size for certain builds / gimmicks, this gives you the following speeds:

Spoiler

(There's no reason to use Engines other than the following, as they will have the same weight and size, but be slower).
Engine - Speed with Speed Tweak (Speed without Speed Tweak), Tons Free, Slots Free DHS (Slots Free SHS)
XL190 - 169.3 kph (153.9 kph), 7T, 8S (14S)
XL180 - 160.4 kph (145.8 kph), 7.5T, 8S (14S)
XL170 - 151.5 kph (137.7 kph), 8T, 5S (13S)
XL145 - 129.2 kph (117.4 kph), 8.5T, 2S (12S)
XL125 - 111.4 kph (101.2 kph), 9T, 2S (12S)

Pirates' Bane (no FF) or SHS only:
PB - XL100 - 89.1 kph (81.0 kph), 9.5T, 13S
SHS - XL100 - 89.1 kph (81.0 kph), 9.5T, 11S

Common and Uncommon Locust Builds:
LCT-1E

Spoiler

Common 1E Builds:
5ML LCT-1E
- 5ML, BAP LCT-1E
5SPL LCT-1E
- 5SPL, BAP LCT-1E
6SPL LCT-1E
6ML LCT-1E
Uncommon 1E Builds:
LPL LCT-1E
ERLL LCT-1E
ERPPC LCT-1E
6SPL, AMS LCT-1E
6ML, AMS LCT-1E
AMS should be off by default

LCT-1M

Spoiler

Common 1M Builds:
2MPL, 2SRM2 LCT-1M
2ML, 2SRM2 LCT-1M
Uncommon 1M Builds:
2ML, SRM2, SRM4 LCT-1M
2ML, 2SRM4 LCT-1M
2ML, 2SSRM2 LCT-1M
SL, TAG, 2SSRM2 LCT-1M

LCT-1V

Spoiler

Common 1V Builds:
MPL, 4MG LCT-1V (SHS)
MPL, 4MG LCT-1V(DHS)
ERLL LCT-1V
- LL LCT-1V
ERLL, 2MG LCT-1V
- LL LCT-1V
LPL LCT-1V
Uncommon 1V Builds:
AC2 LCT-1V
ML, AC2 LCT-1V (XL170)

LCT-3M

Spoiler

Common 3M Builds:
4SPL, MPL LCT-3M
3SPL, 2MPL LCT-3M
5ML LCT-3M (Overarmoured)
4ML, MPL LCT-3M
3ML, 2MPL LCT-3M
2SL, 3MPL LCT-3M
3MPL LCT-3M
Uncommon 3M Builds:
LPL LCT-3M
ERPPC LCT-3M
1LL, 2ML LCT-3M
1LL, 4SL LCT-3M
1ERLL, 2ML LCT-3M
- Alt 1LL, 2ML LCT-3M
1ERLL, 4SL LCT-3M
4MPL LCT-3M (XL170)
4ML LCT-3M (STD A, XL170)
AMS Support:
- 3ML, 2AMS LCT-3M
- 1MPL, 2AMS LCT-3M
- 2SPL, 2AMS LCT-3M
- 2ML, 2AMS LCT-3M

LCT-3S

Spoiler

Common 3S Builds:
SPL, 4SRM2 LCT-3S
SPL, 3SRM2 LCT-3S
ML, 4SRM2 LCT-3S
ML, 3SRM2 LCT-3S
Uncommon 3S Builds:
ML, 2LRM5 LCT-3S
4SRM2 LCT-3S
3SRM2 LCT-3S
4xLRM5, ML, LCT-3S (XL100)

LCT-3V

Spoiler

3V Builds:
2MPL, 2MG LCT-3V
LPL LCT-3V
ERLL, 2MG LCT-3V
AC2 LCT-3V
ML, AC2 LCT-3V
MPL, TAG, 2MG, BAP LCT-3V
MPL, Flamer, 2MG LCT-3V

LCT-PB

Spoiler

Common Pirates' Bane Builds:
4SL, 2MG, ECM PIRATES' BANE
4SPL, 2MG, ECM PIRATES' BANE
4ML, 2MG, ECM PIRATES' BANE
4SPL, ECM PIRATES' BANE
2SPL, 2MPL, ECM PIRATES' BANE (XL170)
2SPL, 2MPL, ECM PIRATES' BANE (XL180)
2SPL, 2MPL PIRATES' BANE
4MPL PIRATES' BANE
Uncommon Pirates' Bane Builds:
AC2 PIRATES' BANE
2SL, AC2 PIRATES' BANE (XL170)
AC2 PIRATES' BANE (XL170)
2ML, 2MPL, ECM PIRATES' BANE (XL180)
3MPL, ECM PIRATES' BANE (XL180)
ERPPC PIRATES' BANE
Large Pulse Laser PIRATES' BANE
SL, ERLL, ECM PIRATES' BANE
2SPL, 2ML, ECM, BAP PIRATES' BANE
(For a solid Capture and Control mech, add Capture Accelerator, Advanced Sensor Range + either Target Info Gathering or Advanced Zoom.)
2SL, ERLL, ECM PIRATES' BANE (XL170)
2SL, ERLL, 2MG, ECM PIRATES' BANE (XL100)
2ERLL, ECM PIRATES' BANE (XL100)
Not for the faint of heart.

Edited by Ovion, 11 June 2016 - 12:15 PM.

[3xnihilo]

Yes! Now I have a reference to link to when people ask locust questions!

[Shadey99]

This is actually the second thread of it's type. I did a 'Ultimate Guide to the Locust' back on the locusts release and updated it a year ago.

[Tim East]

No LPL 1V? Heresy!

I also use a 5SPL+BAP 3M on occasion, which I like better than taking AMS, not that AMS is bad.

[TercieI]

Just looking at the 1E, I have two major comments: 1) The 5ML build is more common (and superior to in most cases) the 6ML build and 2) If you're putting AMS on a LCT, you're doing it very, very wrong.

[Ovion]

Shadey99, on 08 May 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

This is actually the second thread of it's type. I did a 'Ultimate Guide to the Locust' back on the locusts release and updated it a year ago.

This is more based on building and theory, with more in-depth than a 'general overview'.

Based on your build advice (encouraging skipping Ferro? you're going to be under-armed and over armoured. (Optimal is 7T free with a XL190, which needs stripped head (1) + arms (5), max+5 head with ferro you get 6.5T, and without 6T, that's quit a bit of difference when you've got so little to play with.)
Also, looking at the builds, a lot of them have 'balanced' armour which is often a death sentence on a locust, as no where is well enough protected.

(Your quirk info is out of date, the thread having not been updated as you said, in a year (since "Edited by Shadey99, 14 April 2015 - 12:42 AM."), meaning several things are a out by that much.)

Tim East, on 08 May 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

No LPL 1V? Heresy!

I also use a 5SPL+BAP 3M on occasion, which I like better than taking AMS, not that AMS is bad.

TercieI, on 08 May 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Just looking at the 1E, I have two major comments: 1) The 5ML build is more common (and superior to in most cases) the 6ML build and 2) If you're putting AMS on a LCT, you're doing it very, very wrong.

My own builds are, for some out of date, I will update them.
The AMS is on there because honestly, I can't fit another heatsink in (which is why people often go 5ML, but that's honestly what the 3M is for dammit) and I do recommend it's off by default.

Edited by Ovion, 08 May 2016 - 11:54 AM.

[TercieI]

Ovion, on 08 May 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

My own builds are, for some out of date, I will update them.
The AMS is on there because honestly, I can't fit another heatsink in (which is why people often go 5ML, but that's honestly what the 3M is for dammit) and I do recommend it's off by default.

Unfortunately the quirks and, more importantly now, the all arm mounts make the 1E plain superior to the 3M. Looking again, I can't figure out why you're stripping the arms (where your guns are) down to 5. Sure, LCT arms aren't hit that much, but it's not never and protecting your weapons is more important that putting AMS on a mech that moves nearly 170kph. My two LCT-1Es are built thus: Tamarind and Hyssop.

[Ovion]

TercieI, on 08 May 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

Unfortunately the quirks and, more importantly now, the all arm mounts make the 1E plain superior to the 3M. Looking again, I can't figure out why you're stripping the arms (where your guns are) down to 5. Sure, LCT arms aren't hit that much, but it's not never and protecting your weapons is more important that putting AMS on a mech that moves nearly 170kph. My two LCT-1Es are built thus: Tamarind and Hyssop.

Because, generally, the weight is more effective than the extra 7pts of armour you get, and you get +6pts from quirks currently.
Thanks to how tiny the Arm hit boxes are, you'll more than likely lose the Side Torso the arm is on (and die), rather than the arm.

I can't think of many times I've lost an arm before the match ended or I died outright.

But I've included up-armoured 5 and 6 laser versions and shifted the AMS to uncommon.

[TercieI]

Ovion, on 08 May 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

Because, generally, the weight is more effective than the extra 7pts of armour you get, and you get +6pts from quirks currently.
Thanks to how tiny the Arm hit boxes are, you'll more than likely lose the Side Torso the arm is on (and die), rather than the arm.

I can't think of many times I've lost an arm before the match ended or I died outright.

But I've included up-armoured 5 and 6 laser versions and shifted the AMS to uncommon.

I agree it's unusual, but I have lost arms on LCTs and had them stripped other times, where AMS doesn't do enough against streaks to matter (we've tested it thoroughly) and LRMs shouldn't concern a LCT at all.

[Ovion]

TercieI, on 08 May 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

I agree it's unusual, but I have lost arms on LCTs and had them stripped other times, where AMS doesn't do enough against streaks to matter (we've tested it thoroughly) and LRMs shouldn't concern a LCT at all.

No, not alone, and that AMS gives away your position.
But in a group... or if you want to be found?
Then it'll work.

But I accept what's actually common and have updated.
Also adding the LL, ERLL and LPL builds for each variant.

[Virlutris]

Even if it's not the best build on the variant, the 1LL, 2ML build I floated for the 3M a while back may actually be equivalent or better on the 1E because of the beam duration coupled with the range.

Yes, the 3M's cooldown lets you push the build a bit harder, and the heat-gen-for-heat-dissipation trade hurt it less than the 1E. I'm wondering if the current quirkset makes 1E a better variant to use as a poker platform. Testing awaits.

[paws2sky]

Some interesting builds here.

I'm definitely going to tinker with the missile versions and see if those work for me. When I was leveling my swarm, I had success with LCT-3S and LCT-1M, but I was never entirely happy with the performance of the 3S.

I can't really get behind the stripped down armor theory. I get where you're coming from though. Logically, arms and head are small, unlikely to be hit. Torsos, being much larger, are much more likely to be hit. Small target or not, I've been hit in the cockpit more than a few times and lost weapon arms frequently enough that it just doesn't work for me. My unit mate who turned me on to the LCT insanity tried to convince me, but the very next game, he took a Gauss Rifle round to the face within 2 minutes of the match start. It was probably a one in a million shot, but... it happened.

So, 6 tons of weapons and gear is more than enough for me, thanks. I'll leave that 0.14 tons on the table as payment for a little piece of mind.

-paws

[Lolo van Trollinger]

I run the LCT-1E with 3 small lasers and additinoal double heatsinks when fighting Tier 4+5s
I also have two CW variants of the dual AMS locust - 3 M laser or 5 small laser with two AMS and 2 tons of ammo:
we use them as force gard in pairs in FW to neutralize scarecrows we moving with assaults or to sneak behind their LRM boats.

(and yes, the dropdeck is dual KGC, dual Locust.)

Edited by Lolo van Trollinger, 17 May 2016 - 07:49 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

TercieI, on 08 May 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Just looking at the 1E, I have two major comments: 1) The 5ML build is more common (and superior to in most cases) the 6ML build and 2) If you're putting AMS on a LCT, you're doing it very, very wrong.

A surprise Streakcrow or Streakdog might change your opinion on that...

[Brizna]

Very nice guide but I have to side with Terciel, low armor on arms as defaults isn't necessarily a good idea, certaily not if you are geting a useless AMS in exchange, that said it IS something to consider.

Heck I am remembering a match a month ago when I was legged in front of an enemy direwolf, it was badly injured already but you know it was freaking DIREWOLF, he aimed and I torsoed more out of desperation than anything else but he hit the damn arm, lol, the damage did go all the way though to the side torso leaving it almost destroyed but bought me enough time to splash him with my 3 spls and kill it, man that was freaking hilarious.

[Jables McBarty]

Ovion, on 08 May 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

Locust theory

I love that this is a thing.

Edited by Jables McBarty, 17 May 2016 - 02:06 PM.

[Tim East]

Jables McBarty, on 17 May 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

I love that this is a thing.

I love your signature about the FW solo queue. I miss it too.

[Ovion]

erm... reserved.? xD

Edited by Ovion, 22 May 2016 - 12:07 PM.

[Virlutris]

Dawnstealer, on 17 May 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

A surprise Streakcrow or Streakdog might change your opinion on that...

I'm not sure I can see AMS doing much against a clan streakboat. Especially in a Locust. If you're caught out, you're cooked anyway.

In my humble locust hobbyist's opinion, the best defense in a locust is terrain, speed, maneuvering, and the strategic use of other mechs. And Radar Dep. That's all designed to break locks and to drag missile clouds into something else (dirt, red doritos...) before they land. AMS would only help for a couple missiles, unless your team's boating it, which is a very different set of discussion parameters.

[Tim East]

Virlutris, on 23 May 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

AMS would only help for a couple missiles, unless your team's boating it, which is a very different set of discussion parameters.

Had the mental image of a lance of dual-AMS 3M's dropping and wolf-packing. Can't decide if it would work or not. Funny thought though.