111 replies to this topic

[Malorish]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

I do love XL HBKs... those arms make twisting against PPFLD... questionable, at best. Mind you the SP does it better than most, but I still find those STs so easy to pop. (Btw the 4G is still my absolute favorite mech in game.... but because it doesn't XL well, and it's slower, usually because, it's not a great choice for Scout Mode, IMO).

Mind you, in scout mode the lack of Black Knights, Black Widows, and KDKs, Wubshees etc does make the XL a heck of a lot more viable on them. But normal play? 12 v 12, etc? Well, I consider XL Hunchbacks on the opfor a tasty treat.

The HBK-4SP has such ridiculous structure quirks you don't really need the arms as long as you spread damage across the torso. It's also very maneuverable, which obviously works well in Scouting mode as you're constantly trying to get behind your enemy.

It runs a bit hot, which can be a downside in the all or nothing brawls of scouting mode, but if you can manage your heat it's pretty awesome.

[Bishop Steiner]

Malorish, on 23 May 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

The HBK-4SP has such ridiculous structure quirks you don't really need the arms as long as you spread damage across the torso. It's also very maneuverable, which obviously works well in Scouting mode as you're constantly trying to get behind your enemy.

It runs a bit hot, which can be a downside in the all or nothing brawls of scouting mode, but if you can manage your heat it's pretty awesome.

Which I acknowledged... but I'm not referring to niche viability, such as "well it's good for scout mode".

[Malorish]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

So while I feel the OP to be guilty of "gross hyperbole" calling tthe majestic CN9 "dead", maybe it deserves a little consideration, considering th ecurren tstate of the game.

FYI - It's the name of the posting series. I just did the CPLT-K2 which is another favorite I take out from time to time, and plan to do some of the mechs that just aren't as competitive in the current meta.

Again, adding one energy hardpoint in the head, re-aligning the missile hardpoints to be more in keeping with the torso twisting shield arm, adding a bit of structure/armor to the LA, and freeing up a tiny bit of tonnage to promote more ST builds didn't seem that unreasonable to me. Good people are free to disagree.

[Bishop Steiner]

Malorish, on 23 May 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

FYI - It's the name of the posting series. I just did the CPLT-K2 which is another favorite I take out from time to time, and plan to do some of the mechs that just aren't as competitive in the current meta.

Again, adding one energy hardpoint in the head, re-aligning the missile hardpoints to be more in keeping with the torso twisting shield arm, adding a bit of structure/armor to the LA, and freeing up a tiny bit of tonnage to promote more ST builds didn't seem that unreasonable to me. Good people are free to disagree.

And I will disagree, within reason. And yes, I've seen the k2 thread, which I do agree is a mech in need of consideration.

But as a dedicated CN9 pilot the last thing I want is ghost hardpoint appearing, missiles getting moved to encourage sword and board, etc

I'm "that guy" that feels if the mech is no longer recognizable as what it'0s supposed to be, outside of it's name (such as stump armored 4 ballistic Black Widow Warhammers) I'd rather not see them in game at all,then some abomination that is the mech in name only.

And it's not like I've just blocked everything you've said. I have acknowledged and offered some potential buffs, to counter yours. Yet you act like I only have posted against you, oddly.


Again, I would be OK with a mix of any and ll of these:

-Raise Engine Cap to 300 (except for D which is already higher)
-Buff leg Structure from +4 to +12-16 range (if "pros" are just going for legs, give em a reason to consider something else)
-Buff Shield Arm (possibly double the LA Structure and or add Armor, which would be good impetus to learn to twist)
-Possibly add armor to RA BFG mount so that it doesn't get critted as easy.

once you add in the rescale, I don't see the mech needing anything more drastic. It's already in a good place, if not the "flashy overquirked metamech of the month" place. Thus, while you are indeed free to post however you want, posting drastic redesign ideas are IMO, overkill, and in fact usually hurt your quest for improvement with PGI, more than help.

For instance adding hardpoints to th eK2 (and CPLTs in general) sort of makes sense, because the Butterbee is adding 2, and the K2 used to have 2 more. Trying to move missiles and add modeling and texture work, and add a laser in the head on the CN9? Overkill, compared to the nature of the "problem".

[DAYLEET]

I went fullnoob mode with 3x srm6art on my (L) a few weeks ago and i had a good time overall.

[Nyte Kitsune]

roflmao! Op.. hate to say this, but you don't know anything about the Centurion, I still use this mech, and effectively. You know that LA? That shield isn't there for looks, Use you LA to shield, Then turn and fire.. really simple. Another thing, people like to build them as brawlers, and though they're "OK" at it, most Centurions are better skirmishers and fire support.

Yen Lo Wang, decent Brawler, as long as you don't forget you're in a medium and not a heavy or assault, try to brawl with a heavy or assault, you will lose in most cases.

CN9-AH/(L) This is best used as a support mech or a brawler again.. trying to avoid Assaults and Heavies, unless they're wounded.

CN9-AL Best used as a Fire Support or Support mech.... Mostly energy weapons with a Missile hardpoint, Typically I set mine up with a LRM 10, 2 ML, 2 LL (Not ER). Use LRM til ammo is dry, then close range using LL, then into brawling range to help mop up enemy mechs.

Its a solid mech used "Right".

[Bishop Steiner]

Nyte Kitsune, on 23 May 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

roflmao! Op.. hate to say this, but you don't know anything about the Centurion, I still use this mech, and effectively. You know that LA? That shield isn't there for looks, Use you LA to shield, Then turn and fire.. really simple. Another thing, people like to build them as brawlers, and though they're "OK" at it, most Centurions are better skirmishers and fire support.

Yen Lo Wang, decent Brawler, as long as you don't forget you're in a medium and not a heavy or assault, try to brawl with a heavy or assault, you will lose in most cases.

CN9-AH/(L) This is best used as a support mech or a brawler again.. trying to avoid Assaults and Heavies, unless they're wounded.

CN9-AL Best used as a Fire Support or Support mech.... Mostly energy weapons with a Missile hardpoint, Typically I set mine up with a LRM 10, 2 ML, 2 LL (Not ER). Use LRM til ammo is dry, then close range using LL, then into brawling range to help mop up enemy mechs.

Its a solid mech used "Right".

D is possibly the best Flanker/Skirmisher in the game, at least the best not named "Stormcrow" and I think well built and piloted they hold their own. (Crows I can lay out more damage, CN9s, like HBKs I find I have higher KDr for dmg)

[Moldur]

I encourage anyone reading this to spend some time piloting one of their old bygone chassis and see how you do after awhile of getting used to it again.

I 100% agree with the claim that some mechs are not as good as others. period. I mean, as an individual, you can't fix how a mech is shaped if it has an awful shape or something.. However, despite what the forums will have us think, enough people out there are not playing to the high-tier competitive tune, trying to stretch their advantage to the absolute max, so I don't have to either just to have a good match.

I can pull a good match in any of my hunchbacks, or my Orions for that matter. Yeah, the same factors of teammates and opposition plays into it and it's not like I am guaranteed success, but piloting my average-Joes, so to speak, is far beyond bricking my team or throwing the game. They may not be very competetive but they are certainly viable.

[Thorqemada]

Its legs and the main weapon arm be its downfall - Lights can leg it in 2 or 3 seconds and Heavies and Assaults can disarm it very easy.

Dead Mech stays Dead.

Give it Clan Tech and Jumpjets it may still be a fun mech though...my "Paladin" Clantech-Version:
3x Energy Hardponints in Head+CT.
1 Ballistic in the RA
3x Missiles in the LT
4x Jumpjets

That would work okish.

[Nightmare1]

OP is nuts; the Cent certainly cannot be classified as a "dead" Mech. It's one of the most prolific Medium Mechs in use, and one of the best ones that the IS has for CW Scouting Missions.

OP lacks credibility.

[WANTED]

Yen Lo is my all time favorite mech and most games I've played. Great if used properly and with support.

[Bishop Steiner]

Thorqemada, on 23 May 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Its legs and the main weapon arm be its downfall - Lights can leg it in 2 or 3 seconds and Heavies and Assaults can disarm it very easy.

Dead Mech stays Dead.

Give it Clan Tech and Jumpjets it may still be a fun mech though...my "Paladin" Clantech-Version:
3x Energy Hardponints in Head+CT.
1 Ballistic in the RA
3x Missiles in the LT
4x Jumpjets

That would work okish.

Lol.

Stop eating paint chips my friend, lol

[oldradagast]

The snarky, groundless replies and personal attacks against the OP here are pathetic and shameful for the community. To everyone who thinks that the "OP must be nuts because the Centurion is great because I like it," not a single Centurion ranks higher than Tier 3 on Meta Mechs.

http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

So, yes, the Centurion is a "dead mech." Sure, you CAN have a good game in it, and it does teach some valuable skills regarding twisting, but as we should know by now just because a mech works out now and then for some people does NOT make it "meta" and does not mean that objective evaluation of the mech's performance across many players and games is somehow "wrong" just because of "that one time I got 1200 damage and 5 kills in it." Ugh... internet logic.

To the Op: I like some of the ideas you propose, but keep in mind that hardpoint locations will never change from Lore. So, while I agree that the left torso missile mounts reduce the effectiveness of shielding, PGI will never be seen moving them unless they have no choice (moving rear-facing weapons and leg mounted weapons.)

IMHO, the Centurion badly needs an honest rescale, and better quirks. That would at least be a start.

Edited by oldradagast, 23 May 2016 - 05:35 PM.

[Metus regem]

AztecD, on 23 May 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

It also has a "Shield" arm, so yea it teaches you to torso twist to soak damage with that left arm.

Yes you can learn that from the Centurion, but I recommend the Hunchback for learning sheild side. This is mostly due to hard point layouts between the Hunchback and Centurion.

[Bishop Steiner]

oldradagast, on 23 May 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

The snarky, groundless replies and personal attacks against the OP here are pathetic and shameful for the community. To everyone who thinks that the "OP must be nuts because the Centurion is great because I like it," not a single Centurion ranks higher than Tier 3 on Meta Mechs.

http://metamechs.com...meta-tier-list/

So, yes, the Centurion is a "dead mech." Sure, you CAN have a good game in it, and it does teach some valuable skills regarding twisting, but as we should know by now just because a mech works out now and then for some people does NOT make it "meta" and does not mean that objective evaluation of the mech's performance across many players and games is somehow "wrong" just because of "that one time I got 1200 damage and 5 kills in it." Ugh... internet logic.

To the Op: I like some of the ideas you propose, but keep in mind that hardpoint locations will never change from Lore. So, while I agree that the left torso missile mounts reduce the effectiveness of shielding, PGI will never be seen moving them unless they have no choice (moving rear-facing weapons and leg mounted weapons.)

IMHO, the Centurion badly needs an honest rescale, and better quirks. That would at least be a start.

I'm sorry but if you want to drink the metamech koolaid, when even most comps don't, that's up to you, man.

And sorry if you consider blowing up serious misconceptions simply because CN9 is not ezmode, to be snarky, but I honestly don't give a rip.

Most Metamechs are low skillfloor designs, to maximize amge for effort. Problems is many such designs are also low skill ceiling. CN9 is the opposite, to "gitgud" takes more effort, but it also rewards those who take the time. Anything with a higher learnign curve will NEVER be "meta".

Also, CN9 is getting a rescale, the CN9 is overall one of the better examples of Quirks done right (a few things could be tweaked here or there, admittedly) and and even now, if you vaguely comprehend twisting, which 90% of the MWO population demonstrably does not (including many tier 1s) it's one of the toughest mechs in the game...despite it's "oversize". The fact so many people seem to still be living in Open Beta, where the "ideal" was to run a std engine and barely have to twist, is on them, not the mech, which is probably the best non clan XL Medium in the game. (BTW, spent a good part of closed and open beta using my BFG/XL CN9 to kill "pros" in their laughably short sighted Zombie Cents.,. so LOL)

Snarky enough for you?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 05:54 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I feel like the Centurion could do with some ammo quirks, at least on the AH so that it can carry a pretty decent load for its AC20 and SRMs for full matches rather than just scouting. The rescale should also be a big boost.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dakota1000, on 23 May 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

I feel like the Centurion could do with some ammo quirks, at least on the AH so that it can carry a pretty decent load for its AC20 and SRMs for full matches rather than just scouting. The rescale should also be a big boost.

this I can kind of agree with. In CB, when SSRM2s were good, it was fine, it is a little slim on ammo now.

As I said in my multiple "snarky" posts, I could see some minor tweaks overall to some individual variants, but in no way is the CN9 like a VND or something.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 06:12 PM.

[oldradagast]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

I'm sorry but if you want to drink the metamech koolaid, when even most comps don't, that's up to you, man.

Snarky enough for you?

I'm far more inclined to trust what I see on Meta Mechs as being accurate since it approximates what we all know is meta vs. what random posters claim is the "real meta that nobody sees" - such as some fantasy world where the Centurion is a great mech. This is just more of the BS of "there are no bad mechs, just bad pilots" when some mechs are objectively better than others. Sure, anyone CAN have a great game in a bad mech, but that does not make the bad mech great.

The Centurion is currently a bad mech that has potential - but it needs help to really compete. It may get better, sure. And it honestly doesn't need a lot to make it decent, but that certainly doesn't justify slamming the OP over it as so many have done on this thread. If you look at the responses - instead of just picking a fight with me over inconvenient facts - you'd see that some people were acting as if the OP wanted the mech removed from the game or some lunacy. It's stupid behavior like that, where a poster can't even start an honest thread on helping a bad mech without being attacked for it, that makes these forums such a joke so much of the time. And then people wonder why PGI never reads them...

Edited by oldradagast, 23 May 2016 - 06:10 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

AztecD, on 23 May 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

Baby Atlas yea

It's more like a "baby" Victor or Highlander since they can also aim the Boom Stick more freely unlike Atlai.

[BearFlag]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

if they wanted to make the Shield arm and actual shield, I wouldn't cry.

I admit, it's been a bit since I ran the A and didn't realize it only had a paltry 4 pt LA structure buff.

Personally, I think they all should have the 16 structure in the LA, if not more, than add a similar armor buff just to the LA.

And the more we talk scouting, I do admit, I wouldn't mind some Leg Structure, since I find almost all scout matches to be boring legfests.

So while I feel the OP to be guilty of "gross hyperbole" calling tthe majestic CN9 "dead", maybe it deserves a little consideration, considering th ecurren tstate of the game.



I guess there's just that part of me that holds out that eventually they will add "skill" aiming (I know they never will) and fix the ridiculous focus fire/alpha issue.

Roman shield. Neck to knees. Three carry positions:
1. Side. Protects the left side.
2. Front. Protects almost everything except the right arm, head, shins. Torso weapons disabled in this carry.
3. Overhead. Some LRM protection.

In front carry, mobility is reduced.

For full visual awesomeness, line up six abreast, shield forward with their AC20's peeking out... ooooooo.

EDIT: In another thread, I pointed out that an actual shield could be prime territory for artwork...faction symbol or other (sellable?) designs.

Edited by BearFlag, 23 May 2016 - 08:23 PM.