213 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

Ssamout, on 23 September 2016 - 01:43 AM, said:

So you organized that match so that both sides know about it, and they chose mechs accordingly knowing opposition? Or is this just another random encounter in FW? If random rematch, it isnt competitive play. Just another FW skirmish.

What a utterly stupid statement.

At what point in FP, QP or ANY competitive play for that matter - has ANYONE known the oppositions:

1. Mechs
2. Loads outs
3. Plan of attack

et al.

Before going into the battle?

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 September 2016 - 02:08 AM.

[Ssamout]

justcallme A S H, on 23 September 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

What a utterly stupid statement.

At what point in FP, QP or ANY competitive play for that matter - has ANYONE known the oppositions:

1. Mechs
2. Loads outs
3. Plan of attack

et al.

Before going into the battle?

Thanks for the polite answer. FP and QP are not competitive enviroments as I see it. They are just random skirmishes where you drop against random enemies with random weapons and mechs. You know, potatoes with guns.

What I mean by competitive play is when you know what unit you are fighting against, on what map, and by certain rules that have been laid out in advance. A bit like the ongoing MWOWC or the just starting 8 season of MRBC league.

By the way, I recommend your unit checks MRBC league out. You clearly like highly organized play against tough opposition and I would think you'd enjoy it. Signups are closing 30.9. so be fast.

[justcallme A S H]

For me, I can assure you, that was polite. Still I'm wanting to know about:

1. Mechs
2. Load outs
3. Plan of attack

You avoided answering them all, because the fact is, you do not know because you are well aware that in MRBC/MWOWC/Proxis/Whatever - there is an element of unknown to it, the same as there is in FP team vs team.

No one has all their cards on the table before a match and it's absolutely fanciful to think that is the case.

[Ssamout]

justcallme A S H, on 23 September 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

For me, I can assure you, that was polite. Still I'm wanting to know about:

1. Mechs
2. Load outs
3. Plan of attack

You avoided answering them all, because the fact is, you do not know because you are well aware that in MRBC/MWOWC/Proxis/Whatever - there is an element of unknown to it, the same as there is in FP team vs team.

No one has all their cards on the table before a match and it's absolutely fanciful to think that is the case.

Yup, noticed a pattern in you replies.

But yeah ofcourse you dont know those things, doh. In competitive play you use your lights to find all those things out in the first 1-2 minutes.
On the other hand FW or QP are not competitive enviroments. Just playgrounds for mechs to stomp in. You dont need to scout or do any serious tactics. Just take dakka brawl and stomp those ******* or in case of solo QP, kdk3.

[Arkaiko]

yeah, clan mechs are bad, thats why they win 9 of 10 on FP...

let the clan whinners farm... they like to play easy mode...

[justcallme A S H]

Ssamout, on 23 September 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

Yup, noticed a pattern in you replies.

But yeah ofcourse you dont know those things, doh. In competitive play you use your lights to find all those things out in the first 1-2 minutes.
On the other hand FW or QP are not competitive enviroments. Just playgrounds for mechs to stomp in. You dont need to scout or do any serious tactics. Just take dakka brawl and stomp those ******* or in case of solo QP, kdk3.

Glad to hear it.

You do not always find this out with lights in the first 1-2mins in competitive play in any league. Not one MWOWC has a light scouted all 8 mechs/loadouts in that time. I mean throw in a larger map... It just is not what is happening and you're kidding yourself, again.

Still have not answered the points, btw.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 September 2016 - 04:03 AM.

[UberStuka]

justcallme A S H, on 23 September 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

So the 6th one down doesn't count?




I mean what as "competitive" do you want? Similar numbers both sides in terms of tags?

Either that or this is just a troll post.

I wouldn't really call this match completive.... I mean when ever I seen the headline DC vs 228 I thought wow they got a fight vs the Black Watch and won, but then I was sadly let down once I noticed 228s makeup. Not even worth recording or screen shooting IMO.

[Nightshade24]

I personally think the ballance is pretty good in MW: O, however some may say clans are better as they can dish out damage better.
Others may say IS are better due to a lot of variables actually ranging from weapon heat, accuracy, and duration to things such as speed and agility.


Reality is that damage isn't everything in MW: O, on average (and data from the battle of tukayiid shows) that Clan weapons are harder and not always able to do all their damage in an area. AC's spread their damage across multiple shots. Lasers got larger burn time, etc... More damage doesn't mean it's more better.

The other thing is that all IS mechs are more or less ballanced with each other, as it stands now every mech in MWO with any suitable build can work well, LRM boat, Skirmisher, a brawler with SRM's and AC 20's, med lasers, etc...

the problem is quirks are the main leaders in making it say... worth it to take a hunchback over a shadowhawk or a locust over a jenner or what ever.... and the clans sorta lack quirks. Most clan mechs in game are on the bottom of the barrel in MW: O... Gargoyle, Mist Lynx, etc... Thus quite a lot of clan mechs are not on par with the better end of the IS mechs (however a few do make it to the top: Kodiak 3, Night Gyr, the forever changing domination between ebj/hellbringer/ tbf. etc... however Kodiak 5, 1, 4, LRM timberwolves or ER PPC wolves or non ECM hellbringers and so on being just different load outs still are not quite up their in terms of quirkenings. The omnipods between them are not balanced either. Due to this wonky power distribution I think this is why some 'clan mechs are a joke', especially when weapon ballancing doesn't effect the kings and the lower end mechs just get shafted hard..

[MovinTarget]

Nightshade24, on 23 September 2016 - 05:07 AM, said:

I personally think the ballance is pretty good in MW: O, however some may say clans are better as they can dish out damage better.
Others may say IS are better due to a lot of variables actually ranging from weapon heat, accuracy, and duration to things such as speed and agility.


Reality is that damage isn't everything in MW: O, on average (and data from the battle of tukayiid shows) that Clan weapons are harder and not always able to do all their damage in an area. AC's spread their damage across multiple shots. Lasers got larger burn time, etc... More damage doesn't mean it's more better.

The other thing is that all IS mechs are more or less ballanced with each other, as it stands now every mech in MWO with any suitable build can work well, LRM boat, Skirmisher, a brawler with SRM's and AC 20's, med lasers, etc...

the problem is quirks are the main leaders in making it say... worth it to take a hunchback over a shadowhawk or a locust over a jenner or what ever.... and the clans sorta lack quirks. Most clan mechs in game are on the bottom of the barrel in MW: O... Gargoyle, Mist Lynx, etc... Thus quite a lot of clan mechs are not on par with the better end of the IS mechs (however a few do make it to the top: Kodiak 3, Night Gyr, the forever changing domination between ebj/hellbringer/ tbf. etc... however Kodiak 5, 1, 4, LRM timberwolves or ER PPC wolves or non ECM hellbringers and so on being just different load outs still are not quite up their in terms of quirkenings. The omnipods between them are not balanced either. Due to this wonky power distribution I think this is why some 'clan mechs are a joke', especially when weapon ballancing doesn't effect the kings and the lower end mechs just get shafted hard..

I feel that at high levels of play they are very balanced.

Its really at the lower levels where its hard to pin down. Outside of streak builds, most effective clan loadouts have a higher learning curve and higher risk/reward. IS will survive mistakes longer, but that doesn't necessarily make it "better".

It comes down to the pilots for me, not the mechs.

[H I A S]

Ssamout, on 23 September 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

Thanks for the polite answer. FP and QP are not competitive enviroments as I see it. They are just random skirmishes where you drop against random enemies with random weapons and mechs. You know, potatoes with guns.

What I mean by competitive play is when you know what unit you are fighting against, on what map, and by certain rules that have been laid out in advance. A bit like the ongoing MWOWC or the just starting 8 season of MRBC league.

By the way, I recommend your unit checks MRBC league out. You clearly like highly organized play against tough opposition and I would think you'd enjoy it. Signups are closing 30.9. so be fast.

to be fair: they faced a small group of a compteam and it was close.

Best part: "Bring more dudes next time"

Edited by arivio, 23 September 2016 - 06:06 AM.

[UberStuka]

If you guys think uncle Russ is going to read these forums for you opinion on balance you are wrong.

[Ssamout]

arivio, on 23 September 2016 - 05:34 AM, said:

to be fair: they faced a small group of a compteam and it was close.

True, theres some excellent random FW matches there. But to call those matches competitive matches it a bit of strech.

[H I A S]

Ssamout, on 23 September 2016 - 06:08 AM, said:

True, theres some excellent random FW matches there. But to call those matches competitive matches it a bit of strech.

i nerver called that random crap comp.

u never ever can call FP comp

[Ssamout]

justcallme A S H, on 23 September 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:

You do not always find this out with lights in the first 1-2mins in competitive play in any league. Not one MWOWC has a light scouted all 8 mechs/loadouts in that time. I mean throw in a larger map... It just is not what is happening and you're kidding yourself, again.

Ah you seem to love nitpicking, I'll leave you to it then. Have fun in your 'comp' matches.

[Spider00x]

Ssamout, on 23 September 2016 - 06:08 AM, said:

True, theres some excellent random FW matches there. But to call those matches competitive matches it a bit of strech.

First of all who are you and why should I care?

Secondly faction warfare has no real comp tourney anything, my 12 man jumps in the que I dont know whose on the other side. This thread isnt about the quality matches one of my unit member decides to post, its to illustrate the power of clan technology in the hands of people who know how to use it and to vet me when I say I know what Im talking about when I comment on FW.

My unit exists to play CW because we collectively feel that qp is boring and it just people running around in circles trying to farm damage without even the slightest trace of teamwork.

As far as matches are concerned I encourage Wyatt to post a match WIN OR LOSS if the kills reach over 40 losses on our side. Largely this channel is used by myself and my members to re watch matches and to learn from our mistakes. Personally I watch it to see how well my drop calling effected the outcome of said matches. To criticize something I use as a training tool is beyond idiotic.

A challenge was thrown down saying we dont fight 12 mans, there are dozens of matches here vs everything in the kitchen sink that comes my way across the que. I dont know who is on the other side when I get in a lobby and thats part of the fun, we go in armed to play. Obviously Im always sniffing around for other 12 mans to fight and tell my people to be ready but again you never really know.

There is obviously a division with some people who only consider this tourney QP stuff to be competitive to that I dont know what to tell you, those comp teams dont do well in FW just like my FW comp team doesn't do well in QP half the time. I, we dont train for that, our loadouts and builds reflect respawns and objective based gameplay designed for faction warfare. I enjoy a high win to loss ratio that reflects our preparedness.


to SSamout or whoever you are, I consider any 6+ group who jumps into a que against me to be comp. for one they are probably on teamspeak, 2 they have load out and tactics designed to win 3. They have a burning desire to beat my team. Thats how faction warfare works. Using your basic argument is like saying Kcom isnt a comp level team which is a statement so *** backwards it makes you look like a fool.

So Ill say it again any match vs an organized team on coms whether it be a mixed team of FFR pugs or a 228 12 man or what have you is considered competitive in the FW circuit, EVERYTHING else is more or less a mindless pug stomp.

Edited by Spider00x, 23 September 2016 - 09:19 AM.

[Spider00x]

UberStuka, on 23 September 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

I wouldn't really call this match completive.... I mean when ever I seen the headline DC vs 228 I thought wow they got a fight vs the Black Watch and won, but then I was sadly let down once I noticed 228s makeup. Not even worth recording or screen shooting IMO.

I have plenty of matches against Zito and his people sadly not a lot of them recorded while we are playing Clan there are a couple I have while we were IS, again these matches are largely recorded for internal use and I have fun rewatching them and learning how to counter certain teams or how they move and what ranges they prefer to fight at.

[Spider00x]

UberStuka, on 23 September 2016 - 05:58 AM, said:

If you guys think uncle Russ is going to read these forums for you opinion on balance you are wrong.

Im just trying to draw public awareness, I know NGNG reads this as well as some of the small time developers at PGI its all about making your voice heard. Hit russ on Twitter if you want to try and get instant results from him. I consider myself to be an activist as well as a competitive player if you want change keep beating the drum.

Edited by Spider00x, 23 September 2016 - 09:52 AM.

[Ssamout]

Spider00x, on 23 September 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

-clip-

LOL, Who are you?? LOL. <3 <3 <3

Yeah I know that this is oftopic and for that I apologize.

I just pointed out that your matches were against randoms in FP, not comp matches. If that goes so badly under your skin I'm sorry. It's good to have a competitive spirit in this game, helps to win matches.
I watched some of your videos and from them I gathered that you like good quality matches against organized opposition. So in that sense your unit should really check out some comp leagues, as the FP seems to still be in decline and you dont enjoy QP. Some really good nail biter matches to be had in there, no circle jerking unless u wanna, and it really doesnt take more time commitments than FP.

As to the topic, that clan mechs are a joke. That is a joke in itself.

[SmokeGuar]

Lets remember this thread started in June, balance of game was quite different then and FW map also. Some ppl just keep bringing this alive time to time.

[Husker Dude]

justcallme A S H, on 23 September 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

For me, I can assure you, that was polite. Still I'm wanting to know about:

1. Mechs
2. Load outs
3. Plan of attack

You avoided answering them all, because the fact is, you do not know because you are well aware that in MRBC/MWOWC/Proxis/Whatever - there is an element of unknown to it, the same as there is in FP team vs team.

No one has all their cards on the table before a match and it's absolutely fanciful to think that is the case.

Not to blow up our spot, but we've definitely scouted other units' videos in MRBC/MWOWC to find out what they bring and what they do.