503 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Are they maybe too busy with the MechCon and Tournament? That is what my first thought was when I heard that Russ has stepped back off twitter.

I know that I wont buy anything from a company that doesn't treat its fans well, I've already put too much money into this game as it is...I'll gladly vote with my wallet if they can't communicate with their player base.

[Trauglodyte]

I think that everyone is just stuck in a rut and it is causing a lot of angst versus PGI. Their balance is not the greatest and, quite frankly, a lot of TT purists still are mad about the fact that the Clans aren't in stars. In reality, the biggest complaint that I've seen is that the game is simply stale. There isn't any real immersion because you don't feel like you're taking a real planet - hard to do, I know. But, the community is splintered into 10+ groups, which means little to no overlap, and people are more inclined to play in the solo queue than they are Faction Warfare which, btw, was supposed to be the End Game for MWO. So, if the community feels like it is being ignored while playing a game that is largely monotonous and the game staff is telling that community to STFU because we don't know anything, what sort of relationship does anyone think that we can have long term?

- balance needs to be better
- the game can't be point, click, kill, especially when targeting a mech isn't even relevant, necessary, or impactful
- mechs need flavor and differentiation
- playing the game needs to matter in the game world (i.e. things that happen need to have an impact)
- MORE maps need to be added so that when we play FW we're not doing the same thing on the same map; playing FW on 10 different planets that all look like Grim Plexus is kind of disturbing and boring

[GRiPSViGiL]

AnimeFreak40K, on 05 June 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

Oh, there is no doubt in my mind that Overwatch is good. Blizzard tends to put sufficient time, effort and love into any of their projects that even with minimal marketing, they will do well just on word-of-mouth alone.

However, I won't touch it, mostly because I can't stand FPS games as a general thing. The only reason why I have stuck around MWO for as long as I have is because the issues I have with FPS games (limited view arc, camera placement and the like) don't really exist in MWO... or any game where you're piloting something.

With regard to MWO being a shooter when it wasn't supposed to be... well, I don't know. I have taken the view that MWO was, at its core, a fairly standard (and basic) FPS. The differences between it and pretty much any other basic shooter is the ability to tweak/customize your toon/avatar/character/giant robot in such a way that no other FPS allowed. But that's just how I see things however...

Not doing Overwatch either. I am BF guy.

"Thinking man's shooter" right? Well being in a giant robot definitely separates itself from a run and gun FPSer that is for sure. It can't hook people just being an arena 12v12 TDM because it is outdone by the traditional FPSer in every way so it needs a/the macro part of the game to get people invested. PGI screwed the pooch on that.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 05 June 2016 - 06:32 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Lockboxes.

That's about where I realized they were taking a turn. Before the Steam launch, I felt like they were really making the effort. Then they consolidated it down to one patch a month. With the proviso that it would improve the "quality" of the patch. Only for the first patch to have glitches and need hot fixes. And aside from the rescale that they've been working on for months. I haven't seen anything to be hopeful about.

This can be a fun game. But it has no longevity. Faction Warfare is supposed to provide that. But it's just a repackaged version of the base mode. And now I get the feeling they're focusing on monetization in the face of a lack of retention from the casual Steam audience.

Edited by MechaBattler, 05 June 2016 - 07:53 PM.

[Helsbane]

Personally, I hope they're busy looking for a buyer for the IP. Russ and Paul have shown us all they had in the tank, so now would be a great time for them to eject and pass the IP off to more capable hands. Granted, an even better time would have been in 2013 when they couldn't deliver anything they promised, but hey, here we are....

Edited by Helsbane, 05 June 2016 - 06:50 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

MechaBattler, on 05 June 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

Lockboxes.

Lockboxes have ground off a bit of the former luster of this game for me too. This concept is one that I find absolutely repulsive and was a bit taken aback when PGI announced it.

In terms of the discussion though... I think we're looking at a lot of reasons for PGI to go dark right now. Certainly, the June patch is going to be chock full of content. It is, in all likelihood, the single biggest game revision MWO has likely ever undergone. A full adjustment to nearly every mech model, and every other asset that goes along with that - including fully new models, remodels, and rescales. Not to mention a brand new redux map. On top of that, a new mech dropping. AND a new hero for an existing (though newly rebuilt from scratch) chassis. AND I believe the command wheel too, right?

In addition the the June update, you've got the first phase of the tournament that PGI has to staff... they'll have to observe and preside over every match, as well as coordinate the whole event. Then you have preparations for Mechcon ongoing. AND you have all new content yet to be announced, like whatever mech is getting announced this month.

All of that, I think, would be reason enough to go dark through sheer exhaustion alone. But let's face it. If you've tuned into the last few town halls, it's been a trying series of events both for the community at large AND for Russ. Being that Russ has never been one to stand up to criticism, it's a bit presumptuous for us to think we could go off on the guy - wholely justified or not - and expect him to come right back at his next scheduled visit as if nothing happened.

You can argue the "justified" part. I think a lot of factors are to blame there. NGNG for being absolutely terrible at moderating the town halls. Russ for not being a particularly good voice for the direction and ambition of his organization. And the community, for allowing the most vile and useless among us to raise their voices loudest and longest. There are a lot of ways town halls, and communication between PGI and the community in general, can and MUST be done better. What needs to happen, I think, is for players... the community at large... to take a first, earnest step at getting our intentions on the same page and silencing (or at least mitigating) those most toxic of voices.

Long ago (or perhaps not so long, now that there are rumblings again) there was talk of a player council. Maybe this is an idea we need to revisit.

[Johnny Z]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

Your need to post says otherwise

Nope don't care.

[ScarecrowES]

Helsbane, on 05 June 2016 - 06:41 PM, said:

Personally, I hope they're busy looking for a buyer for the IP. Russ and Paul have shown us all they had in the tank, so now would be a great time for them to eject and pass the IP off to more capable hands. Granted, an even better time would have been in 2013 when they couldn't deliver anything they promised, but hey, here we are....

They don't own the IP, so they can't sell it to anyone else. Microsoft owns the IP. PGI has licensed the rights from Microsoft to build a Mechwarrior game. Should PGI no longer wish to build a Mechwarrior game, they'd lose the licensing and it would be up to Microsoft to then either build a Mechwarrior game themselves, or license the property to another interested studio.

However, since no studio before PGI or since has been interested in making a Mechwarrior game (legally), if you want to play Mechwarrior, PGI is the one you're going to have to look to. Because PGI is the only one out there that WANTS to make a Mechwarrior game. Realistically, your Mechwarrior options are whatever PGI makes... or nothing at all.

You know... for what it's worth.

[nitra]

I'm not sure if the game can be saved anymore.

there general lack of direction drive and disregard for the core rule set has steered this game to a point that it alienates the core user base (something pgi has never understood).

and the games lack of depth flawed mechanics and issues does nothing to endear it to a new user base .

(something that pgi has been attempting to capture but also has failed to do so) .


There is a lot that can be done to save the this game but unfortunately i feel the necessary resources to accomplish the task just is not there...



i personally think pgi should hire a a died in the wool true battle tech fan who has played the bt tournaments lives and breathes tt and turn him loose as the project manger . no jury rigging or short changing mechanics do as the project manager says and create a true battle tech game .

in other words the core is the holy grail of battle tech follow that as your guide.

[Duncan Aravain]

PGI currently communicates as well as a mime in a dark room.

....and I know they can do better. (Of course, all mimes still bother me a bit)

[Andi Nagasia]

Bud Crue, on 05 June 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

I blame them.

PGI provide a service/product that some of us utilize for free, and others have spent an obscene amount of $ on. They provide this forum specifically for customers to comment on that service/product. Perhaps you think that forum should be what? Sunshine and lollipops?

No. Ever wait tables? Work retail? Have any type of service job? People are not always pleasant or reasonable, but they are still your customers. Even at their worst, if you want their return business, you respond by saying:

How can I help you?
I am sorry this isn't what you ordered, can I get you something else?
How can we make this right?
Etc.

Even if you think that customer is a total waste of space and you wish they were dead. You at least pretend to care, put on a good show, and try to make it right. What does PGI do in response to ANY comment? They ignore it.

Heading back to the island now. Sorry.

this isnt always the case,

i went to a checkers recently, hadent been there in a month, ordered a big chicken,
got a large pady on a normal bun, i asked wheres the amazing sourdough bun?
they said- sorry sir but thats no longer served or available like that,
i asked if they could make me one like the original they said sure for a 1$ up charge,

some times things change, its not what we expected it to be,
but it can be good even if its different than our vision,
the Big Chicken was still amazing,

[Kin3ticX]

honestly i see russ using less twitter as a good sign, so many damned lore purists belly aching on there all the time


but at this point in the product life cycle, w/ steam launch mostly fizzled, i'd say its very likely they have other projects on focus, if not for some time now

and no i dont mean "surprise we finished transverse", obviously something else to make them a two product company

Edited by Kin3ticX, 05 June 2016 - 07:19 PM.

[Eboli]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

that's the thing.

Take me...one of the foremost labeled white knights and whales in MWO history. Absolute absurd fanatic of all things Batletech/Mechwarrior IP.

And I barely care enough to log in and fire up the client because the game has been stuck in the same low skill cap, low ttk, vanilla build/gamemode rut for way too long.

IDK..maybe I overestimate my own worth, but when one of your biggest fanbois goes "meh"? Probably not a great sign for how well things are going, overall. *shrugs*

Beat you by a couple of months Know exactly how you feel...

Cheers!
Eboli

[Bishop Steiner]

Kin3ticX, on 05 June 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

honestly i see russ using less twitter as a good sign, so many damned lore purists belly aching on there all the time


but at this point in the product life cycle, w/ steam launch mostly fizzled, i'd say its very likely they have other projects on focus, if not for some time now

and no i dont mean "surprise we finished transverse", obviously something else to make them a two product company

IDK... call me crazy that people playing a storied IP might want the game to at least mildly resemble that IP?

I mean I wouldn't wan't Pacifist Klingons in Ferrangi Ships in ST, or Jedis force choking everyone in Star Wars. Plenty of generic shooters people can play if they just want a competitive game. And a whole lot better ones than this.

ScarecrowES, on 05 June 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Long ago (or perhaps not so long, now that there are rumblings again) there was talk of a player council. Maybe this is an idea we need to revisit.

No. That's just opening up things to cults of personalities and agendas. It might extend things for a select few for a time (could just see the Mt Tryhard Council) but i'd rather the whole thing just die rather than stagger on as some undead abomination.

[Troutmonkey]

Scout Derek, on 05 June 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

I don't blame them when people come on their forums telling PGI they're stupid or yelling "What the hell you doing PGI."

Where I work we make games aimed at 7-10 year old girls and even we get some interesting feedback and threats. Got threatened by a lawsuit (lol) because one of the games had a coming soon sign on it for too long and it was "literally killing them". People are hilarious in their entitlement sometimes

[Bishop Steiner]

MechaBattler, on 05 June 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

Lockboxes.

That's about where I realized they were taking a turn. Before the Steam launch, I felt like they were really making the effort. Then they consolidated the down to one patch a month. With the proviso that it would improve the "quality" of the patch. Only for the first patch to have glitches and need hot fixes. And aside from the rescale that they've been working for months. I haven't seen anything to be hopeful about.

This can be a fun game. But it has no longevity. Faction Warfare is supposed to provide that. But it's just a repackaged version of the base mode. And now I get the feeling they're focusing on monetization in the face of a lack of retention from the casual Steam audience.

I think you are on to something. Everything seemed ...positive (not great, but like PGI was actualyl invested in trying to make stuff happen, even if not always the best way) but seemed like...coming off of the Xmas break..PGI and Russ ...never quite .... recaptured that drive.

Admittedly we don't see behind the curtain. Could be they are at their limit of what they can create. Could be simple burnout over the way a vocal minority (which they shoudl simply tune out) QQ over everything like the InfoWar PTS...which while not dialed in right, had a lot of interesting ideas to pursue.

The problem is, as far as the community goes, that aside from frustration with PGI there is nothing remotely resembling a consensus on what TO DO with the game. Just look how I lock horns with the Church of Skill folk...because *gasp* I want a "Battletech game" that...resembles Battletech instead of generic stompy robot shooter.

Scout Derek I think is underestimating PGIs culpability in their own PR problems... but he's not wrong in that we the community are a fractious bunch of whiny SoBs, too.

[Cion]

the cold and simple truth is that PGI needs a person dedicated to pleasing and communicating with its playerbase. This peson not only should do that, but have SOME leverage on the planning meetings to throw a "bone" to its players.

For example, this person would hype up DEKALZ, then remind PGI on every meeting that the players want DEKELS. PGI would then, out of pressure, hopefully assign one developer....even one intern, to continuously work on it. Then the PR person would give us weekly updates on how Deckaaalz are proceeding.

Sadly, PGI either does not know this or doesn't want to, but it is necessary.
How many players (and money) would have been retained if they had this? Even if the game is still on the same pace of development, many (not all) would have stayed longer.

Corporations do these things, governments do them too, have someone dedicated to validating customers perceptions of the product they already purchased.

[MechaBattler]

ScarecrowES, on 05 June 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Lockboxes have ground off a bit of the former luster of this game for me too. This concept is one that I find absolutely repulsive and was a bit taken aback when PGI announced it.

In terms of the discussion though... I think we're looking at a lot of reasons for PGI to go dark right now. Certainly, the June patch is going to be chock full of content. It is, in all likelihood, the single biggest game revision MWO has likely ever undergone. A full adjustment to nearly every mech model, and every other asset that goes along with that - including fully new models, remodels, and rescales. Not to mention a brand new redux map. On top of that, a new mech dropping. AND a new hero for an existing (though newly rebuilt from scratch) chassis. AND I believe the command wheel too, right?

In addition the the June update, you've got the first phase of the tournament that PGI has to staff... they'll have to observe and preside over every match, as well as coordinate the whole event. Then you have preparations for Mechcon ongoing. AND you have all new content yet to be announced, like whatever mech is getting announced this month.

All of that, I think, would be reason enough to go dark through sheer exhaustion alone. But let's face it. If you've tuned into the last few town halls, it's been a trying series of events both for the community at large AND for Russ. Being that Russ has never been one to stand up to criticism, it's a bit presumptuous for us to think we could go off on the guy - wholely justified or not - and expect him to come right back at his next scheduled visit as if nothing happened.

You can argue the "justified" part. I think a lot of factors are to blame there. NGNG for being absolutely terrible at moderating the town halls. Russ for not being a particularly good voice for the direction and ambition of his organization. And the community, for allowing the most vile and useless among us to raise their voices loudest and longest. There are a lot of ways town halls, and communication between PGI and the community in general, can and MUST be done better. What needs to happen, I think, is for players... the community at large... to take a first, earnest step at getting our intentions on the same page and silencing (or at least mitigating) those most toxic of voices.

Long ago (or perhaps not so long, now that there are rumblings again) there was talk of a player council. Maybe this is an idea we need to revisit.

Lockboxes are the hallmark of so many bad F2P games out there. If they at least dressed it up in battletech theme, it would almost be passable. But they made no attempt at all. And worse of all, it's content locked behind a pay well. Something they try to keep to a minimum. If they did it like Clash Royale boxes, where it takes time for free players to unlock. Then it would fit with their F2P model, pay not to wait. Add to that the theme. Make it a piece of salvage. With the excuse that techs need to refurbish it, so it takes time. Or you hire it out to a tech firm to do it instantly. I wouldn't even be mad at that point!

But the fact they made no effort to dress up this horrible staple of the F2P industry is just telling of where they're going.

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

The problem is, as far as the community goes, that aside from frustration with PGI there is nothing remotely resembling a consensus on what TO DO with the game. Just look how I lock horns with the Church of Skill folk...because *gasp* I want a "Battletech game" that...resembles Battletech instead of generic stompy robot shooter.

It's a difficult thing to do, given the base vacuum that exists for Battletech products - getting the community on the same page, I mean. Being that MWO is currently the only video game a Battletech fan can pursue, it ends up having to please a player base that wants different things from Battletech.

Personally, I come from table top. I loved table top. But if I'm not playing a pure, full-on table top-like experience, then I want Mechwarrior. Mechwarrior has never been table top. It's been a representation of what we imagine the battles are like in our heads as we're drawing up build sheets and rolling dice. Though I love my pen-and-paper... I don't ever want Mechwarrior to be THAT.

BUT... there are a lot of people who DO want MWO to satisfy their craving for what pen-and-paper brought to them. I think, honestly, this new HBS product will probably satisfy those people better.

Me, I love Battletech lore. I love the differences between each House and Clan. Their histories, and stories. I find meaning behind each faction I see in MWO and find I can actually identify with the lore of one specific faction above all others. I want to represent THAT faction.

But... there are a lot of people who don't care about the story. And if they have to sacrifice the narrative for a slight decrease in matchmaking times, so be it. I've never been willing to make that sacrifice, but some are.

I think it would be a lot easier for the community to get on the same page if we stop looking at what each of us, personally, hopes to get out of this one and only Battletech game, and look instead at what needs to happen for MWO to be the best MECHWARRIOR title it can be. If we could look past our personal biases on balancing and gameplay mechanics, game flow and features... and look at what would work for this particular product the way it's been designed and built.

That doesn't mean, of course, being afraid to change the nature of the game... but does mean first accepting that THIS is the game we have... THIS is what we're getting. This is the platform from which we build.

MWO is not ever going to be true to Battletech the way some may want. And it's not going to play like... whatever more popular game you might want to compare it to. It does little service to anyone to try to make MWO something it's not. Noone would ever be able to agree on whatever lofty and disassociated goal we would each like to hold MWO to. BUT, I think many of us CAN agree on ways to make MWO better at what it IS.

[Felio]

I had noticed that Russ has pulled way back on the tweeting in the past couple of weeks. It coincided with the Kodiak release, but I don't think that was the catalyst. Or maybe it was. It doesn't seem like a major lightning rod issue, but maybe it just hit him at a bad time.

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

Have never flown it as high as some like to assume.

MechaBattler, on 05 June 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

Lockboxes.

That's about where I realized they were taking a turn. Before the Steam launch, I felt like they were really making the effort. Then they consolidated it down to one patch a month. With the proviso that it would improve the "quality" of the patch. Only for the first patch to have glitches and need hot fixes. And aside from the rescale that they've been working on for months. I haven't seen anything to be hopeful about.

This can be a fun game. But it has no longevity. Faction Warfare is supposed to provide that. But it's just a repackaged version of the base mode. And now I get the feeling they're focusing on monetization in the face of a lack of retention from the casual Steam audience.

Yeah... I hope I'm not to blame for that. I tweeted him about a month before that announcement giving my appreciation for them not having paid randomized loot like every other F2P game.

Mechs may be expensive, but at least we can buy them. In most games we'd have to by a $1 loot box hundreds of times hoping to get the next variant of a chassis.

What's extra weird is what a bad fit these boxes are for MWO. We are used to buying our items. When we want a gun or ammo or something, we need it now and we buy it now. If we get another in a loot box, it may as well be empty, and even if we sell it we'll just be irritated.

I cannot imagine gambling for a radar derp module or something. Whatever MC price point and RNG drop rate they set, they are either so good that they devalue premium time and buying c-bills outright (unlikely) or they are a waste of time, money and code (more likely).